[Lokust]

I didn't think it was needed as I was listening to the stock tuning with just a bass bump since I got the headphone but once I started looking for some EQ settings and found Oratory's EQ it was just a night and day difference for me.

I also listen with the free Reveal plugin. But to my ears it's awesome without EQ.

 

[jh88]

I have both the LCD-X 2021 (the open back), and the LCD-4. The LCD-4 is different. Darker background, more detail, much better, and pretty unique, bass. The LCD-4 always has a pretty weird tuning, which I've heard has a lot of unit variation. The LCD-4, to me, sounds like a much deeper soundstage. The X is a little flatter. Before EQ'ing, the tuning on the LCD-4 is not better than the X's tuning, but with EQ, it's a whole different headphone.

I've owned both as well and agree with pretty much everything you mentioned (both with EQ). The LCD-X is pretty decent for the price, but I just found it to be boring compared to the 4.

 

[jh88]

So I recently got LCD-XC 2021, and am amazed at how good they are. Listening to Daniel Rifaterra's excellent Eva release, I got that club vibe for sure - it was the closest I've been to being a room with a sound system apart from actually doing that.

Have you had a chance to check out anything else from Audeze? I'm curious if the I should be looking at the rest of the line, after my experience with the LCD-XC. I've never heard a headphone do what the LCD-XC does, so I'm not sure how their higher-end models might possibly improve on it lol.

Soundstage depth, instrument separation, bass quality, imaging, etc.

 

[marcan]

I also listen with the free Reveal plugin. But to my ears it's awesome without EQ.

Indeed, EQ is not a free lunch. What you gain in frequencies, you pay for with a loss of transients.

 

[KaiSc]

Indeed, EQ is not a free lunch. What you gain in frequencies, you pay for with a loss of transients.

The correct EQ improves transients.
Headphones and standard EQ are both minimum phase systems and can compensate each other in the frequency AND time domain.

For headphones this is true only up to frequencies of ca. 2-3 kHz.
Above, delayed reflections on the internals and the earpads start to dominate.
This is no longer minimum phase, so can’t be compensated by EQ.

The reason why Oratory1990 and the like don’t work for frequencies above this limit.

Trying to compensate reflections by EQ indeed smears the transients, and that in the range where the ear is most sensitive for this.

Resonances, like the famous Sennheiser HD-800’s 6 kHz peak, can be compensated by EQ, even improving transients.
Only that it’s impossible to distinguish between reflections and resonances by a simple frequency response measurement.
Best to test by ear what EQ sounds good and what not.

 

[marcan]

The correct EQ improves transients.
Headphones and standard EQ are both minimum phase systems and can compensate each other in the frequency AND time domain.

For headphones this is true only up to frequencies of ca. 2-3 kHz.
Above, delayed reflections on the internals and the earpads start to dominate.
This is no longer minimum phase, so can’t be compensated by EQ.

The reason why Oratory1990 and the like don’t work for frequencies above this limit.

Trying to compensate reflections by EQ indeed smears the transients, and that in the range where the ear is most sensitive for this.

Resonances, like the famous Sennheiser HD-800’s 6 kHz peak, can be compensated by EQ, even improving transients.
Only that it’s impossible to distinguish between reflections and resonances by a simple frequency response measurement.
Best to test by ear what EQ sounds good and what not.

No, headphones and standard EQ are not always minimum phase systems. However the LCD4 has a nearly perfect flat phase response.
And each time you add EQ, you will inevitably add ringing which will smear the transient.

 

[KaiSc]

No, headphones and standard EQ are not always minimum phase systems. However the LCD4 has a nearly perfect flat phase response.
And each time you add EQ, you will inevitably add ringing which will smear the transient.

“Minimum Phase“ (EQ) is a physical term, and does NOT mean linear phase response.
It stands in opposition to e.g. Linear Phase (EQ).

A simplified, but correct explanation:
Minimum Phase means the frequency response and phase response are strictly and naturally coupled.


Standard EQ‘s (based on analog circuits or their digital equivalent) and headphones indeed are minimum phase and can fully compensate each other to linear frequency AND phase response, even remove ringing (within the limitations mentioned earlier).

The limit is when acoustic reflections (“echoes”) come into play, typically above 2-3 kHz in headphones.
Reflections are not Minimum Phase.

Reflections show up as frequency response irregularities too in traditional FResp. measurements, but can’t be compensated by EQ.
Trying to EQ reflection based FR errors increases the “smear” of transients that already comes from the echoes.

Funny enough, the human brain can eliminate a part of the echoes, as it focuses on the first wavefront that arrives the ear, albeit this effect is quite limited for the very short echoes found in ‘phones.


What may not be forgotten:
Almost all music we are listening to already is run through a lot of EQs during production, so headphones tuning is just another EQ on top.

Purposely adding one more (headphone-)EQ on that, to have more fun listening is a valid option for me.
But I’m no purist and not an “audiophile“ by it’s typical means.

With AUDEZE LCD-4 quite often I do listen without EQ, specifically when hearing contemporary Pop and Rock music, even a lot of Jazz works well.

 

[LowBeat91]

Last night I was listening to Bonobo - The North Borders Tour Live and, this morning, to Emancipator - Baralku Tour (Live). What about you?

Lost Frequencies - Where are you now
David Guetta - Play Hard (feat. Ne-Yo & Akon)
Sam Smith - Diamonds (Live at Abby Road Studios)
5 Seconds of Summer - Youngblood (R3hab Remix)
Agnes Obel - The Curse (Live)
Sea Power - Fire escape in the sea
The Weeknd - Blinding lights (Chromatics Remix)
Disco Switch - React
Billie Eilish - NDA
Daughter - How
Regard - Ride it
Kendrick Lamar - The heart part 5
Kendrick Lamar - Count me out
Miguel - Sure Thing
Harry Styles - Satellite
Disclosure - Magnets
Chris Brown - Under the influence
Chris Brown - Privacy
The Beach - Thieves
Syml - Stay close (sparse)
Beyonce - Crazy in love
Hayden James - Hold tight
Dua Lipa - Fever
David Kushner - Daylight
Raye - Escapism
Ben Howard - Under the same sun
Calvin Harris - How deep is your love (Chris Lake Remix)
TELYKast - Body to Body
Topic - Breaking me
Regard - Ride it
Cakal - Aşk Olsun
Zeynep Bastık - Ara
Glass Animals - Heat Waves
6 Seconds of summer - Youngblood (Acoustic)
Íñigo Quintero - Si no estas
Casper - emma

 

[Exekuhtor]

Enjoy!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audeze-lcd-4.20951/reviews

Old can goes BRRRRRRR!

I really enjoy it without any EQ!

 

[LowBeat91]

I think EQ depends always on your gear. I enjoyed EQ on the LCD 4. When i switched parts and i really the LCD 4 more without EQ now

 

[ansel1]

I think EQ depends always on your gear. I enjoyed EQ on the LCD 4. When i switched parts and i really the LCD 4 more without EQ now

Which parts?

 

[LowBeat91]

Which parts?

All Parts matter in your chain.

 

[ansel1]

All Parts matter in your chain.

Sorry, I meant, specifically in your case, what is the chain you are using now which works so well with the LCD-4?

 

[Fibre101]

I thought the stock tuning was bad at first but then I changed the pads and although everything balanced out, I felt it still needed eq. Thats when I started using eq and really enjoyed every part of it since without it there was something missing. But then I upgraded my system with a few things added and one day decided to turn off EQ completely to see the effects of my new system. Turns out, I really liked the LCD4 non EQ aswell but only on my upgraded system. It really depends on your gear and how these things perform.

 

[ansel1]

Turns out, I really liked the LCD4 non EQ aswell but only on my upgraded system.

What gear do you have in that upgraded system?