Audeze LCD-4
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goldendarko

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No, I never comment on any I don't own, and most of them for a long time with lots of use. A few times in the past, I commented on something that I formerly owned for a fairly long time (a few months).
I used to own the R10 for years, but not anymore, and I said that.
Also, I tried to explain that what I was talking about as soundstage was probably different than usual (sorry for that, that was misleading).

And people hear things differently. Someone on the Pioneer Master1 thread said he was "disgusted" by the HE1000 (but I don't think he owned them), and that sounded sort of nuts to me, but who am I to say what he hears in the end?
Bob Katz in his talk with Tyll said anyone who likes the SR009 "must be deaf" (and that the Oppo PM1 was so bad it wasn't even worth talking about).
Someone on the Tidal thread said that 320 lo-fi from any service sounded as good as anything, and that also seemed way off to me.
This is a subjective business.
Well said. It's sort of like reading Amazon reviews. One bad review doesn't mean a good product is junk just like one great review doesn't make a piece of junk any good. It's easier for potential buyers to read all the feedback to get the overall idea of the headphone or gear they are interested in.
 
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potkettleblack

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Someone on the Pioneer Master1 thread said he was "disgusted" by the HE1000 (but I don't think he owned them), and that sounded sort of nuts to me, but who am I to say what he hears in the end?
Bob Katz in his talk with Tyll said anyone who likes the SR009 "must be deaf"

Attention whores. Nothing more nothing less. The he-1000 may not be for you - but to say they disgust you is silly, and is a clear attempt to stand out and take it one step further than anyone else sharing their opinion. Bob Katz is no different. Not only did he brush over the 009's and not mention any of their strengths - he said that due to one song not sounding 'right' to him, the he-1000's were completely out of the running.
That's right, Bob, anyone that can appreciate arguably the most transparent headphone ever created,
must be deaf - you're just so out of control and edgy Bob!

I can't respect opinions like this. All of the top of the line headphones that exist today do one or more thing very, very well, whether they are for you or not. Sweeping statements and the downplaying of such inventions simply because they don't make your Rebecca Pidgeon albums sound its best, is a very limited point of view to hold.
 
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sinae

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Hmm. Human perception is more sensitive to the vocal range, so if the curve were flat through that region, then those frequencies would be unduly emphasized. This is why many headphones have a dip there on FR graphs. I don't hear any unduly emphasized or unduly recessed frequencies with the LCD-4.
 
FR graphs only tell a part of the story and are easy to misinterpret. I've heard headphones that measure great and sound awful as well as headphones that measure poorly and sound fantastic. This is just my opinion; I'm biased, like everyone else, and I haven't heard everything in the world, but I don't find that the LCD-4 needs any fixing with EQ.
 
Im a musician/mixer/productor so for me when people say they want the headphone to follow the munson curve i understand but it's stupid since the sound engineer have a flat system and compensate himself in his mixing for that fluntcher munson curve.. so if it's sound bad on a flat system.. it just mean it was badly mixed..
 
if the headphone drop to follow the munson curve than it will be a double drop.. (one created by the mixing engineer and another one by the tuning of the headphone.. it's not what i'm looking for.. i don't mind a little drop following the curve that i can compensate with EQ if necessary when i'm mixing but those ****ty FR headphones graphs make me want to puke .. :wink:
 
how can i work with this? and why would i want something else than total flatness? it's not the headphone job to fix the poor quality mixes from bad engineers..
 
personnally i prefer flat headphone and use EQ to fix to taste for movies and soundlistening if necessary but flat should be more than enough for me anyway.. since it reproduce what the sound engineer wanted in the first place..

from 10kh and up some wiggle in the FR curve isnt that bad, and also can be fixed with EQ..
 
but from 50hz to 10khz it need to be mostly flat for me with no resonance.. (in the normal listening dynamic range)
 
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Audeze

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Sound Stage & Imaging - There are two things related to imaging - How big it is and how accurate it is. We do a lot of tests and recordings ourselves to determine how big and where instruments are placed and how accurate our sound stage and imaging are. We value accurate sound stage more than a very big & unfocussed sound stage. 
To make these recordings we have an amazing Grammy award winning recording engineer. He is one of the world's foremost expert using purist recording techniques. We have done over 20 recordings masterfully done by him for reference. In these tests, we accurately mark the position of the performer and compare them to reproduced sound stage. We listen to the live performances and also to the reproduced sound.
It is very difficult for users to evaluate sound stage accurately because the original information is not present easily. We have evaluated many many recordings and several headphones. The LCD4 soundstage is extremely accurate.  
 
Here are some photos from a recording done last year in Santa Barbara. 


 
Audeze Stay updated on Audeze at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/AudezeLLC https://twitter.com/audeze https://www.audeze.com/
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Audeze

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We think it is pretty important that audio equipment manufacturers not only rely on recorded music, but should also have background in music or start building institutional expertise. Here is an interesting article recently on Sound and vision about the in house Tonemeister at B&O. 
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/meet-maestro#OEARoMGE71l023iA.97
 
Audeze Stay updated on Audeze at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/AudezeLLC https://twitter.com/audeze https://www.audeze.com/
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sinae

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I had the th-600 not the 900 but imo. the X is what you want for electronic. It is just too bad electronic fell off so much since Tiesto around 2001, I haven't found anything worthwhile since around 2008.

hahaha you didn't seek much did you.. =)
 
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moopster

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  Sound Stage & Imaging - There are two things related to imaging - How big it is and how accurate it is. We do a lot of tests and recordings ourselves to determine how big and where instruments are placed and how accurate our sound stage and imaging are. We value accurate sound stage more than a very big & unfocussed sound stage. 
To make these recordings we have an amazing Grammy award winning recording engineer. He is one of the world's foremost expert using purist recording techniques. We have done over 20 recordings masterfully done by him for reference. In these tests, we accurately mark the position of the performer and compare them to reproduced sound stage. We listen to the live performances and also to the reproduced sound.
 
Audeze, it would be really great if you could share some of those recordings with us, even just a few excerpts.
 
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rgs9200m

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Thanks Goldendarko. Good points you made too. (It's even agonizing to decide on a good toaster from all the Amazon reviews.)
 
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xp9433

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Someone on the Pioneer Master1 thread said he was "disgusted" by the HE1000 (but I don't think he owned them), and that sounded sort of nuts to me, but who am I to say what he hears in the end?
Bob Katz in his talk with Tyll said anyone who likes the SR009 "must be deaf"
Quote:
Attention whores. Nothing more nothing less. The he-1000 may not be for you - but to say they disgust you is silly, and is a clear attempt to stand out and take it one step further than anyone else sharing their opinion. Bob Katz is no different. Not only did he brush over the 009's and not mention any of their strengths - he said that due to one song not sounding 'right' to him, the he-1000's were completely out of the running.
That's right, Bob, anyone that can appreciate arguably the most transparent headphone ever created,
must be deaf - you're just so out of control and edgy Bob!

I can't respect opinions like this. All of the top of the line headphones that exist today do one or more thing very, very well, whether they are for you or not. Sweeping statements and the downplaying of such inventions simply because they don't make your Rebecca Pidgeon albums sound its best, is a very limited point of view to hold.
 
Bob Katz's opinion should be acknowledged as accurate for him, his experience, and his tastes. He is comparing the sound to what he knows the recordings he made sound like live. Bob seems to be very sensitive to high frequency abnormalities of any kind. He discounted both the HE1000 and 009's after just a brief listen, whereas Tyll selected the HE1000 as his reference headphone after extended listening, (albeit with some EQ adjustments - Bob Katz being the catalyst for him using EQ).
 
My own headphone listening pleasure has lifted quite a lot after using EQ (starting with Harman curve) - My thanks to Bob Katz!
 
Taste and senstivity play a big part in what each of us hear - or want to hear.
 
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RCBinTN

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I want to thank everyone (including @Audeze) for your impressions of the referenced TOTL headphones.  I am learning more from this thread all the time.
 
I fully understand that HP impressions are personal and depend on many aspects like music genre, source quality, volume, surrounding environment, emotional state of the listener, and etc.
 
I currently own the LCD-X and HD800.  Love them both in different ways.  I read this thread to learn how the LCD-4 might compare to my current HP's, and even how they might replace the LCD-X in my collection.  I think a lot of other folks are looking for similar information.  The LCD-X already sound great to me.  If the LCD-4 offer certain SQ improvements over the LCD-X, then they may be for me in the future. However, it's a big jump from a $1700 to a $4000 HP.  The SQ improvement has got to be dramatic.
 
So net - I'm hoping to learn whether investing $4000 in a HP is worth it.
 
Thanks for your help -
RCBinTN
 
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vnmslsrbms

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  Bob Katz in his talk with Tyll said anyone who likes the SR009 "must be deaf" (and that the Oppo PM1 was so bad it wasn't even worth talking about).
Someone on the Tidal thread said that 320 lo-fi from any service sounded as good as anything, and that also seemed way off to me.
This is a subjective business.
SR009 and PM1 as terrible products?  Wow.  Bob Katz is pretty harsh LOL.  He's an established engineer but is that really necessary?  
 
BTW what's 320 lo-fi?  320 kbps MP3?  I happen to not be able to tell the difference between that and hi-res.  Tried many times with hi res stuff and DSD and couldn't tell either.  I mean, they all sounded really good.  And I have a pretty good home 2 channel system (as in costs way way more than my already expensive headphones).  Recently I finally feel that I have some of that showroom quality sound.  This is an expensive hobby.  I guess I'm a lo-fi kinda guy but I'd rather just enjoy the music rather than listen to country/folk (I do listen that stuff too) music recorded in 48 bit DSD tape masters all day (just not all day).  
 
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rgs9200m

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I didn't mean to demean Bob Katz or the other commenters for their views, but just cite them as extreme examples of how some diverge from the mainstream. 
(Heck, I even agree with him on how nice the SR007 and I actually prefer it to the SR009.)
To sum up, from reading the early LCD4 comments, I was expecting a slightly better LCD3. I was wrong.
It's far better, and a departure from the LCD2/3s because of its significantly superior tonality, definition, and spaciousness, sweet smooth vocals, and profound bass.
FWIW, if it helps to define my tastes, my favorite phones are the LCD4, SR007/Mk2(current version), Grado PS1000e, and the HE1000. I feel all of them are brilliant, but very different.
 
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vnmslsrbms

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  I didn't mean to demean Bob Katz or the other commenters for their views, but just cite them as extreme examples of how some diverge from the mainstream. 
(Heck, I even agree with him on how nice the SR007 and I actually prefer it to the SR009.)
To sum up, from reading the early LCD4 comments, I was expecting a slightly better LCD3. I was wrong.
It's far better, and a departure from the LCD2/3s because of it's significantly superior tonality, definition, and spaciousness, sweet smooth vocals, and profound bass.
FWIW, if it helps to define my tastes, my favorite phones are the LCD4, SR007/Mk2(current version), Grado PS1000e, and the HE1000. I feel all of them are brilliant, but very different.
You're making my headphone lineup feel second tier.  Going to have to try out the LCD4's at some point.  
 
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Jalo

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