[headphoneloverinNY]

I can give you a recommendation for headphones and an amp for your budget that will beat anything besides amps approaching $3,000 US. That would be the lcd2c and THX AAA 789 amp. You will not find a cleaner amp under 3k no matter what anyone else tells you about other products. this amp is backed up by measurements that bo amp under 3k even comes close too. Its beyond powerful enough to drive the lcd 2c and quiet enough for iem in low gain if you need. Sources has gotten so good lately that they are in the realm of diminishing returns after around $300, so pretty much any new dac around that price will bring out more than 90% of your systems potential. The smsl su8 and topping d50 are two of the best dacs out there regardless of price and both are under $250. Another option if you like a more sweet and smoother treble is the schiit modi multibit. also a great performer especially with the eitr spdif covertor. This is also my fav pairing with the lcd2c. Sure you can spend more money and be happy, but you can do blind tests with other people who don’t know the price and they will have a really hard time telling the difference between a $99 and $1000 dac. Expectation bias is a real thing. Hope this helps you!

Thank you for the advice. Going to definitely follow your advice on the amp. Currently saw someone who has the Audeze LCD2 on sale for 650 in the US, so think I may just going to go ahead and trust that the soundstage improvement will be substantial and have improved mids and treble

 

[headphoneloverinNY]

HD-800 and LCD-2 are very, very different. Perhaps equally good but made for completely different audience and needs.

I wouldn't bother too much with the 800, I'd go straight for the 800s if you are interested in the Sennheisers. 800s are much brighter. I don't know how sensitive you are to treble, but reading your posts you must be quite young. Many people who like LCD headphones prefer a more laid back treble. I myself am very treble sensitive (with my 35 years of age) so I find the 800s just too bright for my personal needs and taste.
The 800s have definitely a much wider soundstage. They are very detailed and more analytical than the LCD2. Being a dynamic pair of headphones though they lack the final bit of bass extension. LCD-2C have a warmer, darker sound. Sweeter and more musical, but that's just my opinion. Bass definitely hits harder and this is mission critical for me.
800 gives you a more analytical, more detailed and more spacious picture.
LCD2C gives you more bass, more punch, more fun, more warmth, a smoother and more easy-listening sound but lacks the final bits of resolution.

800s treble is just too much for me. I'd choose the 2C (with a great DAC and amp) any day vs the 800 but that's just me. Some people prefer the more detailed and analytical approach of the 800s. I prefer warmth, punch and musicality.

That makes sense to me. Yes, I am 23, so perhaps a little young. At the same time, I also know that some of the headphones that my friends loved because of the bass, I find myself feeling that I am overwhelmed. (When I first got the notorious Beats Pros, I remember it was my first time hearing detail--but that I keep looking for equalizers to reduce the bass.) It's like I want a bright headphone, just with tight, punchy bass with good extension, but that sits in the background. I think what you two suggested may be the solution though--because it probably was just an issue of it being closed back. And then I can save up and get the 800's as another pair I assume after I try some out sometime

Thank you again both of you. Lastly, do you have any suggestions regarding prices you think are fair for an LCD2? It was used and also was an open-box, B stock before this seller listed it

 

[betula]

That makes sense to me. Yes, I am 23, so perhaps a little young. At the same time, I also know that some of the headphones that my friends loved because of the bass, I find myself feeling that I am overwhelmed. (When I first got the notorious Beats Pros, I remember it was my first time hearing detail--but that I keep looking for equalizers to reduce the bass.) It's like I want a bright headphone, just with tight, punchy bass with good extension, but that sits in the background. I think what you two suggested may be the solution though--because it probably was just an issue of it being closed back. And then I can save up and get the 800's as another pair I assume after I try some out sometime

Thank you again both of you. Lastly, do you have any suggestions regarding prices you think are fair for an LCD2? It was used and also was an open-box, B stock before this seller listed it

No worries. LCD2C is the best bet under $1000 if you like your bass in high quality and good extension.
Beats is a curse word in real audio-enthusiast circles. Forget that brand please.
I still think you might like the Elear or Elegia even though they have too much treble energy for me personally.

 

[BrotherKathos]

No worries. LCD2C is the best bet under $1000 if you like your bass in high quality and good extension.
Beats is a curse word in real audio-enthusiast circles. Forget that brand please.
I still think you might like the Elear or Elegia even though they have too much treble energy for me personally.

Or maybe the hifiman Sundara, but hifiman reliability is questionable

 

[betula]

Or maybe the hifiman Sundara, but hifiman reliability is questionable

HifiMan headphones are much softer than Audeze. A different world. And also build quality is much weaker.
Sundara IMO is not in the same league as the 2C. Ananda or maybe HEXV2. But those are also much softer than the 2C. Audeze slam and punch is unique.
I owned the 400s. One of my biggest disappointments. Half the bass was missing even with pad upgrade.

 

[BrotherKathos]

HifiMan headphones are much softer than Audeze. A different world. And also build quality is much weaker.
Sundara IMO is not in the same league as the 2C. Ananda or maybe HEXV2. But those are also much softer than the 2C. Audeze slam and punch is unique.
I owned the 400s. One of my biggest disappointments. Half the bass was missing even with pad upgrade.

Softer in bass maybe, but not in treble. Hifiman He-400i is much brighter than lcd2c, and sundara is its replacement with much better sub bass. A solid competition to Audeze if you want the bass extension and control on planars with a bit more high end than Audeze

 

[betula]

Softer in bass maybe, but not in treble. Hifiman He-400i is much brighter than lcd2c, and sundara is its replacement with much better sub bass. A solid competition to Audeze if you want the bass extension and control on planars with a bit more high end than Audeze

True, it is a matter of taste.
I much prefer the authority, power and slam of Audeze versus these HiFiman alternatives. I haven't heard the HE1000 or above though.
Audeze is pretty much perfect with modern music and ok with classical. Higher-end HiFiman might be better with classical. Bass power and authority is on Audeze's side though. My music is bass heavy, so the choice is easy for me.

 

[BrotherKathos]

True, it is a matter of taste.
I much prefer the authority, power and slam of Audeze versus these HiFiman alternatives. I haven't heard the HE1000 or above though.
Audeze is pretty much perfect with modern music and ok with classical. Higher-end HiFiman might be better with classical. Bass power and authority is on Audeze's side though. My music is bass heavy, so the choice is easy for me.

I listen to all kinds of stuff, expect for rap , new country, and old whiny country( and opera, friggin HATE opera). My He-400i might be better than the Audeze in some cases for classical, but I molest them alot with my loki to make them sound more like the lcd2c lol. I'm not really a fan of elevated treble, but for those that are and want great bass definition hifiman is hard to beat. That's if you get a reliable pair, but I've heard about the driver failures with Audeze as well so it can happen to anything. I've personally already had to warranty my 400i for the right driver going out. The good thing was hifiman just sent out a brand new pair almost immediately with no issue. I was happy with their customer service.

 

[betula]

I listen to all kinds of stuff, expect for rap , new country, and old whiny country( and opera, friggin HATE opera). My He-400i might be better than the Audeze in some cases for classical, but I molest them alot with my loki to make them sound more like the lcd2c lol. I'm not really a fan of elevated treble, but for those that are and want great bass definition hifiman is hard to beat. That's if you get a reliable pair, but I've heard about the driver failures with Audeze as well so it can happen to anything. I've personally already had to warranty my 400i for the right driver going out. The good thing was hifiman just sent out a brand new pair almost immediately with no issue. I was happy with their customer service.

Great to hear HiFiman customer service is on the same level as Audeze. Hifiman 400s might have more natural mids than the 2C. But there is nothing they really shine with. Bass is just a lost game versus Audeze.

400s are great for vocals if you want some improvement on HD600 or 650 but that's it. Bass extension is a lost cause vs Audeze.
Edit: Regarding driver failures. Audeze offers a 3 year transferable warranty on drivers. This is quite generous IMO. They have improved a lot in this regard. I wouldn't hesitate to buy any Audeze after 2017.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Great to hear HiFiman customer service is on the same level as Audeze. Hifiman 400s might have more natural mids than the 2C. But there is nothing they really shine with. Bass is just a lost game versus Audeze.

400s are great for vocals if you want some improvement on HD600 or 650 but that's it. Bass extension is a lost cause vs Audeze.

I'm not surprised the 400s was not to your liking. As a rule of thumb I usually never get the cheapest offering i an companies line of products. I've been pleasantly surprised with the lcd2c, but that's an exception in my personal experiences. The 400i is a much better headphone than the 400s, and the sundara improves on the things that needed to be improved on in the 400i. And its a nice $300 cheaper than the lcd2c, which opens up the ability to get a better source/amp/peripheral setup to balance.

 

[betula]

I'm not surprised the 400s was not to your liking. As a rule of thumb I usually never get the cheapest offering i an companies line of products. I've been pleasantly surprised with the lcd2c, but that's an exception in my personal experiences. The 400i is a much better headphone than the 400s, and the sundara improves on the things that needed to be improved on in the 400i. And its a nice $300 cheaper than the lcd2c, which opens up the ability to get a better source/amp/peripheral setup to balance.

Sure, that is true and I appreciate your reply.
As a cheapest opening to an array of devices I have to mention my Mojo which I loved for its presentation. Once I upgraded my desktop DAC I knew it couldn't be anything else than a Chord DAC.
Buying my secondhand 2Qute was one of my best purchases this year.
This just shows how important it is to keep your audio chain on the same level as your headphone is.
I honestly don't understand people who spend £1000 on headphone and then £200 on amp.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Sure, that is true and I appreciate your reply.
As a cheapest opening to an array of devices I have to mention my Mojo which I loved for its presentation. Once I upgraded my desktop DAC I knew it couldn't be anything else than a Chord DAC.
Buying my secondhand 2Qute was one of my best purchases this year.
This just shows how important it is to keep your audio chain on the same level as your headphone is.
I honestly don't understand people who spend £1000 on headphone and then £200 on amp.

Sometimes a good pairing makes price irrelevant. There are plenty of examples of people spending thousands only to wind up with sub par sound that can be beat by much cheaper equipment. You can have the best ingredients available in you kitchen, but of you can’t cook they are useless. That said, you still need decent ones to make something tasty. Audio can be the same, thats why you try all kinds of stuff to get your baseline and improve from there. You seem to have found yours, which is a great start. I’m pretty much there as well for head fi. I prefer the multibit and r2r sound to delta sigma. I’ve never heard chord dacs, but from all the different opinions I’ve heard they might be to similar to delta sigma dacs for me. To much over processed, but I need to hear one first so I can know for sure. They are a bit boutique for the us market to make auditions easy though.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Thank you for the advice. Going to definitely follow your advice on the amp. Currently saw someone who has the Audeze LCD2 on sale for 650 in the US, so think I may just going to go ahead and trust that the soundstage improvement will be substantial and have improved mids and treble

If you get the thx amp, i highly recommend the schiit modi multibit along with their eitr as a source. That along with the lcd2c is really really good imo. I’ve got a few dacs and amps in the same price range and below and I just keep going back to that one. Its honestly made me thing of selling the others if I didn’t act like a gypsy in my own home lol. For example I’ve got a jds labs el amp, massdrop o2 amp, schiit magni 3, audioengine d1, emotiva big ego, and schiit asgard 2 besides the thx. I’ve got the topping d50, balanced smsl su8, schiit modi 3, as well as the modi multibit, afew different headphones from sennheiser, and one from both hifiman and audeze. The audeze and schiit combo is my fav flavor. They are subtle differences when you really get down to the nitty gritty with the headphones making the biggest difference, but enough to make me keep coming back.

 

[headphoneloverinNY]

If you get the thx amp, i highly recommend the schiit modi multibit along with their eitr as a source. That along with the lcd2c is really really good imo. I’ve got a few dacs and amps in the same price range and below and I just keep going back to that one. Its honestly made me thing of selling the others if I didn’t act like a gypsy in my own home lol. For example I’ve got a jds labs el amp, massdrop o2 amp, schiit magni 3, audioengine d1, emotiva big ego, and schiit asgard 2 besides the thx. I’ve got the topping d50, balanced smsl su8, schiit modi 3, as well as the modi multibit, afew different headphones from sennheiser, and one from both hifiman and audeze. The audeze and schiit combo is my fav flavor. They are subtle differences when you really get down to the nitty gritty with the headphones making the biggest difference, but enough to make me keep coming back.

Thank you for the advice. Yeah, I actually went ahead and ordered the THX amp yesterday because I realized that I probably was doing it all wrong with regards to amps, so looking forward to testing it out ( I was naive and definitely one of the people who thought I would be better off allocating money in the form of $1,000 for a headphone and $100 for an amp!.)

So, from what you are saying, I would buy the shiit modi bultibit along with the amp I purchased already? (I have decided in terms of headphones. I am currently in a small city in the in the middle of nowhere New York for grad school and start winter break in a week so will visit some headphone stores/headphone events in my hometown, which is a major city (LA) to make sure I am getting to sound I want--and glad to know that I have some direction now that I have gotten advice on headphones). Technically my headphone budget could be higher, but definitely, do not want to surpass 1,800 for a headphone and prefer staying in this 1,100/1,200 range for a headphone--but I may be able to spend about 300-500 additionally on amp/sources.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Thank you for the advice. Yeah, I actually went ahead and ordered the THX amp yesterday because I realized that I probably was doing it all wrong with regards to amps, so looking forward to testing it out ( I was naive and definitely one of the people who thought I would be better off allocating money in the form of $1,000 for a headphone and $100 for an amp!.)

So, from what you are saying, I would buy the shiit modi bultibit along with the amp I purchased already? (I have decided in terms of headphones. I am currently in a small city in the in the middle of nowhere New York for grad school and start winter break in a week so will visit some headphone stores/headphone events in my hometown, which is a major city (LA) to make sure I am getting to sound I want--and glad to know that I have some direction now that I have gotten advice on headphones). Technically my headphone budget could be higher, but definitely, do not want to surpass 1,800 for a headphone and prefer staying in this 1,100/1,200 range for a headphone--but I may be able to spend about 300-500 additionally on amp/sources.

Yes, I personally prefer the modi multibit with the eitr which converts the usb signal to spdif. The topping D50 is also a great option as well and is very close to the modi multibit. Both can be bought for $250, with the D50 being able to be had for $200 on massdrop if you catch the drop. The differences between the two in sound signature are faint, but the D50 does have a bit more edge or glare to the highs, which some may or may not perceive as 'clarity' than the modi multibit, and the bass on the d50 has very very slightly more bass definition and control. The modi has smoother treble that imo remains just as defined and perceivable as the d50, with the bass tamed down just a bit.

The modi multibit also has a bit more depth and spaciousness to the sound as well. The D50 is a bit more closed in. This is when using straight usb with both. I actually listened to the thx with the D50 for a while and was also very pleased. You cant go wrong with either imo, but it really depends on what you are looking for. I like a very smooth, natural and organic sound when I listen to music. I'm fairly treble sensitive and If i want to crank the volume up to really rock out I can do so for longer with the modi. The D50 was better for listening at very low volumes since the treble and bass were elevated a bit. Made it easier to hear things at those levels.

After I got the Eitr I have not gone back to the D50 yet, but I've heard others prefer the spdif on the D50 as well. I might test the Eitr with the d50 to see, but it does not really stack well for my aplication so I'll probably not go that routte even if I find an improvement at least for now. I aslo noticed an improvement when I used a usb to toslink(optical) convertor with the D50, It tamed the highs a bit and made it better to my mind/ears. I hope this helps you narrow it down a bit.

Also there is the SMSL SU-8. They have done some revision recently and fixed some issues the balanced output had, so if you want a balanced dac to go with the balanced thx, that is an option as well. I've got the first version, so mine might sound differernt and I found the SU-8 to have the biggest sound stage of the 3 dacs while also being slightly brighter in treble as well than the rest. SMSL is also $200 on massdrop or amazon usually