[sorrick]

@s1190 Exactly the problem I had at a dealer. The dealer was originally told there was a workaround but that wasn't successful so unfortunately they had to send the unit back to Audeze for a replacement. This is quite worrying that firmware updates can potentially brick the cipher cable if not done absolutely correctly. Even with a 'strong and stable' (as Theresa May would say) WiFi connection, there is always a risk of signal drop-out, and in some cases that can potentially break your cipher cable with no way of recovering it.
@Audeze, are you also concerned about this and are you working on a more unbreakable method of firmware upgrade?

I also have this exact same problem. My phone was stuck on firmware v0.3.9 and whenever I tried to update it said I had the latest firmware. I eventually got it to update to v0.4.1, by unplugging the cable, uninstalling the app, shutting down my iphone, restarting it, reinstalling the app, plugging back in my iphone, and then trying to update, but now I have run into the same problem where it says 0.4.1 is the latest firmware. I tried the above sequence again and it didn't work. I even tried uninstalling the app and then force restarting my phone to clear the memory, then reinstalling etc., but the app still says 0.4.1 is the latest firmware. I've reached out to Audeze customer service and they have been very responsive, but sounds like I may need a new cable...

 

[KMann]

We are seeing some cases where the firmware upgrade is interrupted for some reason (internet , connector, iOS communication etc), the app is not able to determine what cable is connected (El-8 or iSine) and it defaults to El-8 firmware (0.4.1 or 0.3.9), which is a safe option as it has just a gentle bass boost. The cable will still work and so will the EQ through the Audeze app. What it won't have is the custom EQ we put for iSine10/20 (that I have published in this thread earlier). It is technically not 'bricked', but I understand it is not ideal either, which is the reason we ask to ship it back.

We are currently working on an App update that would ask the user if they have a iSine or El-8 or Sine cable if the App is not able to determine the cable type. We hope to release the app within the next month. We also worked in tandem with Apple's engineering team to improve the firmware to provide more robust connectivity.

Till we have the updated App released, you can hold-off doing a firmware upgrade unless you are not happy with the lowest volume setting. Other than the volume settings, there are no sonic differences.

Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused and we appreciate your patience as we try to resolve this issue.

 

[s1190]

We are seeing some cases where the firmware upgrade is interrupted for some reason (internet , connector, iOS communication etc), the app is not able to determine what cable is connected (El-8 or iSine) and it defaults to El-8 firmware (0.4.1 or 0.3.9), which is a safe option as it has just a gentle bass boost. The cable will still work and so will the EQ through the Audeze app. What it won't have is the custom EQ we put for iSine10/20 (that I have published in this thread earlier). It is technically not 'bricked', but I understand it is not ideal either, which is the reason we ask to ship it back.

We are currently working on an App update that would ask the user if they have a iSine or El-8 or Sine cable if the App is not able to determine the cable type. We hope to release the app within the next month. We also worked in tandem with Apple's engineering team to improve the firmware to provide more robust connectivity.

Till we have the updated App released, you can hold-off doing a firmware upgrade unless you are not happy with the lowest volume setting. Other than the volume settings, there are no sonic differences.

Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused and we appreciate your patience as we try to resolve this issue.

Another issue i encounter with the App,

1) At Setting page, press home button
2) launch the app again
3) the app doesn't let you check for firmware. (screenshot below)

Normal behavior is to re-scan cable and firmware right ?



And also, if you do have music playing background before checking for firmware. when you check for firmware, the music stop. But after a while, there a sharp tone coming from the headphone.

 

[kertong]

omg. I just got home from an unexpected jaunt to audiovision in SF.

I walked in because I was down the street on pine for unrelated reasons, and I had some time to kill. I had my heart set on the campfire audio andromeda's, but walked into this store to see what they had.

Super nice folks - they had a nice collection of headphones, and then happened to have the i10 and i20 isine's to demo. Never having tried planars, I didn't know what to expect. I have the stax srs-002 "baby stax" portable system, which I love but hate carrying a separate brick/box that chews through the batteries in ~6 hours on top of my source.

Thankfully I had my sony ZX2 with me and I got to sit on their comfy leather couch and rock away. They had me listen to the i10 at first, then the i20. They both sounded fantastic, though I noted a slight graininess in the upper mids on the i10, which seemed to be smoothed out completely on the i20.

Either way - I walked away from the store without buying just to cool off a bit - but a few hours later i walked back in and bought the i20's.

Straight off the iphone SE I have, they sound great. surprised at how easily they're driven by portables - for some reason I assumed planars would be power hungry. With the cipher cable, even better. But using the 3.5mm straight out of my ZX2, it sounds fantastic. Smoother and less sparkly, but full, warm bodied, smooth, and punchy. Not quite sure which I prefer - iphone + cipher, or ZX2.

EDIT: ok, this kind of pains me to admit seeing as how I blew $800 on my ZX2's.. but I think I like the cipher + iphone combo better than the zx2.. dang it! How can this be? The ZX2 with its fancy OSCON caps and bulk... and the cipher.. its freaking tiny, how good can the tiny chips inside it possibly be? I am befuddled. Cipher seems to extend fr on both ends - little more sparkle, little more bass (some EQ magic?)... and seemingly more space between the images. hmm... need to listen more, wish there was an easy way to a/b test this. </EDIT>

Either way, floored at how good these are. I prefer them to my SE846s, and I'll most likely be selling my SRS-002 stax.

Great job, audeze. I think they're a little ugly looking (esp the color), but sounding as good as they do, they could be 10x uglier and I'd still rock them proudly and happily.

Amazing that we have this kind of fidelity and soundstage in something so portable. What an age we live in!!! Perhaps I'm too honeymoon'ed out right now but I could swear they're just as good as my full size stax L500 setup. :O

 

[manukmanohar]

We are still evaluating if this can be done. The cipher cables internally support USB, but getting it to work on all the android platforms correctly is a challenge. The amount of customer support to handle all the variants is a bit daunting. With more USB-C phones, we think the situation will become better soon.
Here is a good read on Android https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/an-audiophile-switches-from-ios-to-android/

That's great to hear. With even Samsung Galaxy S8 switching to USB Type C, we now have all the latest flagship android phones using USB-C. So, if you could look at supporting just the USB-C Android Phones, that alone would be enough for most of us. In the coming months, we are going to see even more phones, including mid-range phones supporting USB type C.

 

[-rowan-]

So Audeze's new groovy tips arrived in the mail - and out of all of the tips I've tried with my iSine 20 so far (and there have been many) I will say that these have made the single biggest improvement to their sound.

I love the 20 but the main criticism I have of them, sound-wise, is that while it has a well-extended treble, its upper midrange isn't really its forte & it can come across as being somewhat unfocused and veiled. This is especially noticeable with the 3.5mm cable.

The new tips take care of that completely. They lift that veil and tidy up those exact frequencies and make them noticeably cleaner, faster and more impactful.

So far I've found the difference to be most stark in piano music. Having played the piano for more than 30 years now, I've never been convinced by how the 20 rendered pianos - it never conveyed adequately the sonic impact of hammers striking each note.

Using these groovy tips is the auditory equivalent of triggering autofocus in a camera.

I won't be going back to the old ones.

===

Full disclosure: I received these tips at no cost. Audeze were in the process of sending me a replacement iSine cable and I asked about the tips as they had not yet been listed for sale at the time, and Chris Berens was so good as to throw in a packet of them.

Thank you Chris and Audeze for the amazing customer service for someone who lives halfway across the world from them.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

Is there a way to gauge "reliability" issues with the iSine20. I'm not a huge IEM fan, but since selling off my heavy LCD-2F and possibly my Sine... I'm thinking I would like to try the iSine20 and "get used" to IEMs.

 

[-rowan-]

Is there a way to gauge "reliability" issues with the iSine20. I'm not a huge IEM fan, but since selling off my heavy LCD-2F and possibly my Sine... I'm thinking I would like to try the iSine20 and "get used" to IEMs.

It seems a few people have had issues (I did, for one) but it's probably just part and parcel of being an early adopter of new technology and I must say Audeze have been very prompt and keen to address problems.

Do try the iSine 20. I came to the 20 from the Sine, and haven't looked back.

 

[reddog]

I am having a great day jamming out to Frank Zappa's London Symphony Orchestra and Zoots Alures, using my incredible Audeze iSine 20; driven by my Tascam CD Player> Yggdrasil >Liquid Gold. I am amazed at how fantastic the iSine 20 sounds. I am impressed how well it scales with my main headphone rig.

 

[AxelCloris]

I vote for thumbnail images!

 

[WayTooCrazy]

I vote for thumbnail images!

Completely agree! No need for such large images!

 

[reddog]

I vote for thumbnail images!

Next time thumbnail pictures sorry
Thumbnails is a much better option.

 

[acia]

Here's a pic from the VE page on Facebook...

Yes even silver plated cable is better than stock for mid vocal for my 10.

 

[regit]

Hi regarding insertion depth I personally find that you don't need to push them in at all, well barely. I use the over ear clips that came with the i20 and once you get a comfortable fit the tips pretty much give a good seal with little insertion at all. By the way I use the large silicone tips which for me offer a great seal.

So when I first got my iSine, I had the same feeling about the treble being spectacular but wasn't enthralled with the balance or mid/bass yet. The original non-groovy tips just did not work for me no matter the depth. They'd move around and were just not quite right. Then I found that I apparently love the way they sound with Comply tips. I'm pretty excited to get them back from RMA tomorrow and give the Groovy tips a go. Will report back on if I stick with Comply or move back to stock (groovy) tips. I generally prefer shallower insertion with Comply 600 Comfort tips.

As for the DAP question, the Cipher is probably made with slightly cheaper parts but also vertically integrated if you will, like an Apple design. It's simple to use, which is neat. The DAP should be able to get there as long as you have robust EQ control.

Thanks for the feedbacks!

I have further played around with the iSine 20 and I think it is a keeper Interestingly, it took some parts that I don't use anymore to come up with a pretty nice combo ...

1) For DAP, I found the combination of Sony A15 and HeadAmp Pico gives a really nice source for the iSine. Cipher seems to be very U-shaped and whilst the EQ on the A15 is nothing to shout about, it has enough (esp. ClearBass for the low end) to give the iSine a very similar sound to the Cipher. As for the amp, Pico is known for its clean and precise soundstaging and this serves to give the iSine more control and precision over the Cipher. This combo also solve the "ringing" I get when listening to classic piano sonata. The whole presentation is also brought forward and more immersive, and in this regard, loses a bit on the layering when compared to the Cipher.

2) For cable, I have a spare Toxic SW with overmold (and rather lucky that it is overmold). Being overmold, I can easily cut notches to the connectors and I did it in such a way that I can connect the right connector to the left earpiece and left connector to the right earpiece... Why? So that I can wear the iSine as an over-the-ear Much more in line with what I am used to... Also, I noted that with overmold, the pins are normally thinner as compared to pins from UE or Edolic connectors. With thinner pins, it will not enlarge your pin connector on the earpiece, else if enlarged, the original cable and the Cipher cable will be too loose to fit!

3) For ear plug, a pair of Muse double flange, fit nice and deep. Good seal, enough to cause a "click" sound when inserting on one of the earpiece (sounds like driver flex, which is interesting. considering these are planars and opened-back... is this normal?).

The iSine 20 and the "revived" parts

 

[manukmanohar]

For those who have been using their iSines with an android device, have you been able to find a cable with mic that works well (without the molding issues) , without any major issues.
I'll also be very interested to hear about people's experience with other dac/amps, which perform better than the cypher cable. It would be interesting to know whether it is possible that a 50$ cable with dac/amp with customized eq settings should be better (based on what i have been reading in this thread, and others) than the normal cables plugged with a good portal dac/amps that cost 300-500$ like a Geekout v2+/iFi Micro iDSD/Chord Mojo