[leeperry]

now it's time to put an audio-gd earth in the swappable op-amp socket

anyway, yeah, I've got no problem thinking that a discrete HP amp will sound better than a crappy $2 IC(that's colored and distorted to death in the trebles).

even a properly implemented JRC4580 sounds miles better than this ***.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Auzentech HTHD Headphone Out Impressions Compared to ASUS Xonar Essence STX headphone out, it's no contest. It seems that ASUS saw this market and wanted to get a piece of it quickly and cheaply (picking a decent DAC chip, adding sockets for opamps, printing out phony test measurements, and posters for inclusion in their box). Shame on ASUS, they should have never opted for a quick solution for their headphone out. Did anyone at the company actually listen to the head out? OK enough of my ASUS bashing - my last five motherboards have been ASUS after all. The headphone out of the Auzentech HTHD is seriously nice. As an aside, it appears that the circuit for the Forte is similar based on photos of the PCBs on the website. With the stock op-amp in place - some very quick impressions (zero burn-in on card using half-way burned in Grado GS1000i's): Sound is nicely balanced - maybe very slightly tilted toward dark - good match for GS1000i's (although my pair are still breaking in - trying to hit 200 hours!) Good strong bass - well controlled. Decent extension down low, but not the ultimate. Good dynamics. Decent bite. Moderately fast, but would like faster. Decay lingers a bit too long. Congested when things get busy. Slightly rolled-off in the treble. Delicate highs though. No hint of glare at all. Just the perfect amount of sibilance that are expected from the GS1000i. Very warm (maybe too much?). Laid back - could be a tiny tiny bit more more aggressive. Not the most transparent. Sound/noise floor not black - light grey. Lacks the ultimate in refinement. Nice openness. Loses composure when pushed loud (but I don't listen loud that much anyways) Musical. Yes! Everything above is relative. Best thing would be a detailed comparison to other DAC/Amp combos within reasonable range. For example, it would be nonsense to compare this sound card headphone out to my work desk rig which has been heavily customized and tweaked over time to my likings. But perhaps a detailed comparison to my headroom portable micro dac/amp might be appropriate. If anyone would be interested please let me know. If there are two words that would sum up it up (the headphone out of the Aurentech HTHD): Credible / Competent For ASUS Zonar Essence STX (again headphone out only): Glare / Garbage. Sorry ASUS I can be totally honest because I'm not a paid reviewer that gets to borrow goodies for free. The way I see it, you better be ready to face demanding customers if you put a big stereo phono jack on your sound card and heavily advertise that it's for audiophiles. And BTW did anyone even perform listening tests on that headphone out chip you slapped on the PCB? Going to pop the stock op-amp on the HTHD and try OPA2132 now.

When you said you picked up the HTHD, that is what I was sitting here listening to. The Forte and HTHD have a very similar sound when using the headphone outputs. I am using a custom discrete opamp for testing on that unit and they have a great synergy. The Earth sounds pretty good in there also....

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavcat /img/forum/go_quote.gif I bought the HomeTheater the first day it appeared on Newegg. I previously used the Prelude and I'd been waiting a long time for the HomeTheater to come out! For the socketed opamp I have been using a pair of 627's, which I prefer to the stock. I have not tried any other opamps. I'd love to see if I could hear the difference using 637's, but that's an expensive experiment. Looking forward to reading your observations with different opamps.

I have that card and a vast collection of opamps. The HTHD sounds very good using the 637...

 

[purrin]

All this talk about OPA637s, OPA-Earths, custom discrete op-amps. You guys are seriously evil making me shell out another $100 or so for just a cheesy sound card. (It does appear to have potential though - but more on that in the HTHD thread)

 

[ROBSCIX]

...The opamps are calling!

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif just a cheesy sound card.

so that's what it became overnight?
in that case, I prescribe a Benchmark DAC1(full of nice 5532)

 

[ROBSCIX]

..maybe you should re-read his post.

 

[germanium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes, AK4396 is good stuff because it does 128X oversampling, the STX DAC is 64X by default and can't do 128X at 96kHz or more(and Asus confirmed me that they left it at the default 64X). discrete designs have a major edge over $2 IC's, that's for sure! if only auzen would use Envy24 DSP's I'd be all over it, discrete headphones amp sounds like a plan

The PCM 1792A can do 128X oversampling with a 24.5MHz master clock @96KHz sample rate. The card has a 24.5MHz master clock on it so the chip can operate at 128X oversample @96KHz sample rate. Asus may have chosen otherwise however. The PCM1792A is not a simple single level delta-sigma design unlike the AKM chip. It is a 6 level delta-sigma design & as such yields better performance at lower oversample rates than a simple single level delta-sigma converter.

You can't take just one spec to determine if one chip is superior to anouther , you have to consider the whole package. Both are indeed very very good packages. The relative strenths of each may depend on implimentation & personal preference.

Simple delta-sigma designs tend toward being soft & easy to listen to where as the multilevel design of the Burr Brown tends to be more dynamic & as such may sound more aggressive. You seem to prefer the softer sound of the AKM. The BB chips tend however to be more alive & articulate. I tend toward the BB sound as that is closer to what I hear in live listening. Many live situations would be too aggressive for many people as high frequency sounds are overamped in live electronic music so the fact the BB chip sound aggressive on this music is not a fault but shows its accuracy. The BB chips do not lack in soundstage or imaging though as one might expect from an overly aggressive dynamic chip

 

[leeperry]

indeed, they sound different...and the 1792A does sound much more agressive.

well, I love OPA-Earth as final buffer and it's distorted and colored...and many ppl who love tubes/vynil are also not looking for the most natural sound ever.

I find it far more enjoyable to listen to my modded HD2 w/ HDAM's...an agressive dynamic chip is definitely NOT what I'm looking for when enjoying music at home

I still don't think that the human brain was meant to listen to pure sine waves...the brain likes colored sound to make it more mellow(a friend of mine has tried zillions of headphones amps, and he always goes back to his Little Dot

)

the same difference that exists between headphones aimed at audiophiles and at sound engineers? my previous DT770/600Ω Manufaktur headphones were fantastic...at hearing glitches and various "pops" that is, damn it made them louder than anything! but it wasn't playing any music, it was playing "noise".

my current cd1k(same drivers/construction as the cd3k) plays "music"...those same glitches are hardly audible and PRAT is up the roof

the STX is sold as being "audiophile", not "professional"/flat grade(like RME/Digital Echo/Lynx)....the HD2 is definitely audiophile, it's very euphonic but the STX simply isn't(especially w/ its agressive/highly colored $2 headphones amp IC).

many sites agree to only sell the modded HD2 w/ bursons: Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 Sound Card
Quote:

We believe its the finest soundcard a discerning listener can buy, and it's the only one we are likely to offer in the forseeable future.

Prodigy HD2 Gold Sound Card
Quote:

widely regarded as the best audiophile graded soundcard in the world

with some discrete op-amps, noone's got a problem calling the HD2 "audiophile"...I don't either, and I've tried a truckload of soundcards these past months. It has that much sought after analog sound most ppl crave for, I definitely don't have the feeling to be listening to a computer...more like a 2" master tape on monitoring speakers in an acoustic controlled room(I've killed ear resonances through EQ in foobar, so sound has a rather flat EQ...following this tutorial: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how...torial-413900/ )

 

[ROBSCIX]

"....the HD2 is definitely audiophile"

are you trying to convince us our yourself?

What about your other posted opinions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif the problem on the HD2 is that the PCB is very poorly shielded...

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, look at the SNR/THD measurements...and watch the graphs. the 0404USB/Audiophile USB are as good as it gets, the HD2 is lousy as hell....all that harmonic distortion is obviously due to poor design. funny that they boast about "120dB SNR" on their website, these are the DAC specs...not the card's! good thing they EOL this card

 

[germanium]

Hmmmm, funny I do not find the headphone amp to be colored at all on the STX card. It sounds the same as my modded onkyo p304 preamp headphone out jack ( full D.C. coupling, My doing as the stock HP amp on this preamp was colored but not now). It even sounds the same going from my SACD player to the STX card & back to the p304 compared to direct from the SACD player to the P304 preamp or listening to the same from the STX's headphone amp with matched volume levels.

Am i missing something here or what? or is there a lot of misinformation going on here. It would be very dificult to find a more accurate uncolorered Headphone amp than the one provided on the STX card. I have tried various combinations & all of them sound the same provided they are D.C. coupled or at least coupled with metalised films. Even the the electrolitics in the line in do a good job which I find to be an extreme rarity. usually these are colored & result in detail loss, especially soundstage loss, not here though.Note though that there are no electrolitics in any negative feedback loops in my setup. these do incredable damage to the sound.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanium /img/forum/go_quote.gif there a lot of misinformation going on here.

it's probably that both purrin & I simply have terrible hearing, that's all...nothing to worry about.

the HD2 Advance Deluxe with discrete op-amps is just miiiles better, but that's IMVHO YMMV yada yada

funnily enough, many shops sell the HD2 fit w/ 3 bursons and say that it's the most audiophile soundcard available as of now...but they also prolly have terrible hearing, silly audiophiles

as long as it sounds great to you is all that matters, I'm sure several million ppl are having a blast on Realtek chips as we speak

 

[germanium]

Audiophile card? There are more than one type of audiophile & the Xonar Essence STX is obviously chose to target the ones that want absolute accuracy as opposed to euphonic colored sound. This obviously is not everyones cup of tea but that does not mean the card is crap either.

The choice of amps on it represent state of the art for integrated circuits outperforming many if not most discrete designs in specs & lack of real coloration. The headphone amp is flat from D.C. to beyond 10MHz & does not vary with set gain. How many discrete amps can make to even 1MHz without losing it at higher gain levels. Not many I can assure you.

I have headphones that by the way fit both catagories, One is accurate to the extreme & the other though very good is colored but both sound very good on the STX card. One is the ER4P with P to S converter by Etymotic Research & the other is the Denon AH-D1001. I can live with either as my only headphone with the Xonar Essence STX card.

 

[germanium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif it's probably that both purrin & I simply have terrible hearing, that's all...nothing to worry about. the HD2 Advance Deluxe with discrete op-amps is just miiiles better, but that's IMVHO YMMV yada yada funnily enough, many shops sell the HD2 fit w/ 3 bursons and say that it's the most audiophile soundcard available as of now...but they also prolly have terrible hearing, silly audiophiles as long as it sounds great to you is all that matters, I'm sure several million ppl are having a blast on Realtek chips as we speak

Not saying you have bad hearing just different objectives to meet with your desired sound. Just don't claim something is bad when it is not so. The STX just didn't prove to be your cup of tea & that is ok with me.

To me if I cannot tell the difference from a known source & the playback of said source through a different setup that is doing 2 conversions (ADC & DAC) & going through several amps along the way then it must be pretty well uncolored & I am sensitive to the coloration of various caps especially used in feedback loops. No coloration or distortion detected here.

 

[ele1122]

This thread is making me nervous. I just ordered an STX. Regardless, it will probably sound much better than my Creative card.