In the waiting room. Those of you that know me know how long the SP2K was my reference player. An exciting release to me for sure.
Astell&Kern Launches New flagship DAP and an IEM Collaboration with Empire Ears
- Thread starter JasonNYC
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joshnor713
Headphoneus Supremus
Wait, you have kidneys left? Lucky!
raydenray
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I can pre-order if I'm from Canada?
Awaiting for preorder, this time i can’t lose the black one
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I was confused about the statements of aaK4499EX and AK4499EQ and so on. Here is what I think I found out. I could be wrong!
The AK4499EQ were the flagship of AKM. After the fire, they no longer produce AK4499EQ. However, they aimed for even better this time around.
By using and adopting the topology from AK4499EQ, but splitting it into 2 separated stages. AKM is calling AK4499EX to be a discrete Solution to it most recent and revered current output DAC of AK4499EQ.
How does it work basically ? Well, there are 2 stages of a DAC to convert digital of multi bit into analog signals or your music.
In this application (DSP or digital signal processing), the AK4191EQ is the interpolation, DSD interfaces, sigma delta modulations. After this stage, there will be PWM codes (multi bit or 1 bit), and this will need to be calculated and converted accordingly with precision to come out to be analog. Usually this is to be using different low pass filter orders and topologies to convert. How exactly does AKM do it at this stage is not yet clear. However, I am reading that AK4499EX is upto DSD1024 and PCM1536.
AK4191EQ and AK4499EX is also a Stereo DAC, which is essentially 2 channels Per chip.
We are seeing 2 + 4 implementations , and also right at this section is where A&K is claiming to be the world’s first DAP to have completely separated analog and digital processing . While in fact, it is the technology from AKM, which is what A&K has always been doing, taking the top flagship from AKM and engineered into a flagship portable setup.
‘Why using 2 and 4 configurations ? That is exactly 2 DSP chip set of AK4191EQ and 4 DAC-IC. This is claimed by AKM that the AK4499EX is categorized as a DAC. Therefore Quad DAC implementations is correctly stated.
A&K disclosed it in the next slide that after applying DSP by dual AK4191EQ (which is restrained back to be maximized by PCM786Khz and DSD512 instead of maxing out per chip of upto PCM 64-bit/1536kHz, DSD1024). I guess it makes a lot of senses because DSD512 is a lot of processing already for portable devices.
After this DSP, the next stage will split into 2 group:
1/ 1st group is taking care of Single ended output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Single Ended output is dedicated and discrete single ended. It is not similar to other Single ended amplifier by differential stages.
2/ 2nd group is taking care of Balanced output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Balances output is also dedicated and discrete balanced output!
Therefore, the operation is always 1xAK4191EQ into 2X AK4499EX. This explain the implementation of 2 and 4. This is the very innovations of A&K. Instead of using only 1x2 configuration to take care both Single ended and Balanced out. They dedicatedly implemented it so that your very DAP is now fully taking advantages of both SE/Balanced topologies. Perhaps, this is the first of it kind in the world. Bravo A&K
The AK4499EQ were the flagship of AKM. After the fire, they no longer produce AK4499EQ. However, they aimed for even better this time around.
By using and adopting the topology from AK4499EQ, but splitting it into 2 separated stages. AKM is calling AK4499EX to be a discrete Solution to it most recent and revered current output DAC of AK4499EQ.
How does it work basically ? Well, there are 2 stages of a DAC to convert digital of multi bit into analog signals or your music.
In this application (DSP or digital signal processing), the AK4191EQ is the interpolation, DSD interfaces, sigma delta modulations. After this stage, there will be PWM codes (multi bit or 1 bit), and this will need to be calculated and converted accordingly with precision to come out to be analog. Usually this is to be using different low pass filter orders and topologies to convert. How exactly does AKM do it at this stage is not yet clear. However, I am reading that AK4499EX is upto DSD1024 and PCM1536.
AK4191EQ and AK4499EX is also a Stereo DAC, which is essentially 2 channels Per chip.
We are seeing 2 + 4 implementations , and also right at this section is where A&K is claiming to be the world’s first DAP to have completely separated analog and digital processing . While in fact, it is the technology from AKM, which is what A&K has always been doing, taking the top flagship from AKM and engineered into a flagship portable setup.
‘Why using 2 and 4 configurations ? That is exactly 2 DSP chip set of AK4191EQ and 4 DAC-IC. This is claimed by AKM that the AK4499EX is categorized as a DAC. Therefore Quad DAC implementations is correctly stated.
A&K disclosed it in the next slide that after applying DSP by dual AK4191EQ (which is restrained back to be maximized by PCM786Khz and DSD512 instead of maxing out per chip of upto PCM 64-bit/1536kHz, DSD1024). I guess it makes a lot of senses because DSD512 is a lot of processing already for portable devices.
After this DSP, the next stage will split into 2 group:
1/ 1st group is taking care of Single ended output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Single Ended output is dedicated and discrete single ended. It is not similar to other Single ended amplifier by differential stages.
2/ 2nd group is taking care of Balanced output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Balances output is also dedicated and discrete balanced output!
Therefore, the operation is always 1xAK4191EQ into 2X AK4499EX. This explain the implementation of 2 and 4. This is the very innovations of A&K. Instead of using only 1x2 configuration to take care both Single ended and Balanced out. They dedicatedly implemented it so that your very DAP is now fully taking advantages of both SE/Balanced topologies. Perhaps, this is the first of it kind in the world. Bravo A&K
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@Whitigir
One question...why such modest output power?
(6.3 VRMS vs 6 VRMS many many years ago
️)
NOMAX
PS.I am sure this question is asked by very very many
One question...why such modest output power?
(6.3 VRMS vs 6 VRMS many many years ago
️)NOMAX
PS.I am sure this question is asked by very very many
Last edited:
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This is a very good question, but the SP3K is using OpAmp Similar to it predecessors. It could be the opamps being used that has less output but cleaner THD% ? Who knows ? Unless @JasonNYC can chime in and disclose about what kind of Opamps are being used. Then we may know more@Whitigir
One question...why such modest output power?
(6.3 VRMS vs 6 VRMS many many years ago
NOMAX
PS.I am sure this question is asked by very very many
️Many have been waiting for the new Flagship to be able to drive not only the Focals satisfactorily️The most beautiful housing/material and best Dac implementation is of no use if the DAP only drives IEMS in top form and the Over Ear models do not
And sorry.... but this must also be mentioned...because this is a 3700 USD/4300 Euro player
️(And those who know me ....know that I am very strict)
How much must a Flagship cost from A&K to have the half output performance of a Lotoo Titanium or M17?
7000 USD
And they had enough time to finally open up here
NOMAX
PS.including me
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Does anyone have the FR squig for Odyssey yet? I'm very intrigued.
I was confused about the statements of aaK4499EX and AK4499EQ and so on. Here is what I think I found out. I could be wrong!
The AK4499EQ were the flagship of AKM. After the fire, they no longer produce AK4499EQ. However, they aimed for even better this time around.
By using and adopting the topology from AK4499EQ, but splitting it into 2 separated stages. AKM is calling AK4499EX to be a discrete Solution to it most recent and revered current output DAC of AK4499EQ.
How does it work basically ? Well, there are 2 stages of a DAC to convert digital of multi bit into analog signals or your music.
In this application (DSP or digital signal processing), the AK4191EQ is the interpolation, DSD interfaces, sigma delta modulations. After this stage, there will be PWM codes (multi bit or 1 bit), and this will need to be calculated and converted accordingly with precision to come out to be analog. Usually this is to be using different low pass filter orders and topologies to convert. How exactly does AKM do it at this stage is not yet clear. However, I am reading that AK4499EX is upto DSD1024 and PCM1536.
AK4191EQ and AK4499EX is also a Stereo DAC, which is essentially 2 channels Per chip.
We are seeing 2 + 4 implementations , and also right at this section is where A&K is claiming to be the world’s first DAP to have completely separated analog and digital processing . While in fact, it is the technology from AKM, which is what A&K has always been doing, taking the top flagship from AKM and engineered into a flagship portable setup.
‘Why using 2 and 4 configurations ? That is exactly 2 DSP chip set of AK4191EQ and 4 DAC-IC. This is claimed by AKM that the AK4499EX is categorized as a DAC. Therefore Quad DAC implementations is correctly stated.
A&K disclosed it in the next slide that after applying DSP by dual AK4191EQ (which is restrained back to be maximized by PCM786Khz and DSD512 instead of maxing out per chip of upto PCM 64-bit/1536kHz, DSD1024). I guess it makes a lot of senses because DSD512 is a lot of processing already for portable devices.
After this DSP, the next stage will split into 2 group:
1/ 1st group is taking care of Single ended output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Single Ended output is dedicated and discrete single ended. It is not similar to other Single ended amplifier by differential stages.
2/ 2nd group is taking care of Balanced output by 1X AK4499EX. This makes it so that the Balances output is also dedicated and discrete balanced output!
Therefore, the operation is always 1xAK4191EQ into 2X AK4499EX. This explain the implementation of 2 and 4. This is the very innovations of A&K. Instead of using only 1x2 configuration to take care both Single ended and Balanced out. They dedicatedly implemented it so that your very DAP is now fully taking advantages of both SE/Balanced topologies. Perhaps, this is the first of it kind in the world. Bravo A&K
As always, very keen observations @Whitigir !!!
I think you found the genius of AKM's new architecture where they divided the analog section (swicthed capacitor DACs) and digital section (delta-sigma +preprocessing) into two separate chips 4499EX and 4191EQ. What this separation allows them is to have optimal analog paths dedicated to single ended and balanced in a more efficient footprint since you don't have to carry the extra digital section as they did with 4499EQ. This together with PCB level isolation of digital and analog section.
Below is the internal block diagram of 4499EQ which used to house both the digital and analog parts. With the new architecture, they divided at the red line below where the left side is 4191 and the right side is 4499. The mode used in 4499 side determines if it is driving single ended or balanced. It looks like they dedicated a pair for SE and a pair Balanced to keep the signal paths isolated.
The challenge now is that the DAC is split into two chips right in the middle. Single chip (4499EQ) has the advantage of lower noise because it's all in one chip. The new 4191+4499EX has to route the signal through the PCB. Indeed the mono/stereo SNR is 2dB better for the older 4499EQ. But I believe the biggest benefit of the new architecture is the ability to completely isolate digital and analog sections at the PCB level. I suspect A&K managed to make up for that 2dB deficit with better isolated analog section. Really interesting move and this heavily puts the weight on the implementation skills of the DAP makers. Really curious to hear this one!
Minidisc Australia
Minidisc Australia
Are they cheaper than A2A?
They’re the same price, $5,499
Mangodango369
100+ Head-Fier
This will definitely put pressure on other DAP makers. Not surprised to see other brands taking up a similar concept soon hahaha then we benefit from having more options to choose fromAs always, very keen observations @Whitigir !!!
I think you found the genius of AKM's new architecture where they divided the analog section (swicthed capacitor DACs) and digital section (delta-sigma +preprocessing) into two separate chips 4499EX and 4191EQ. What this separation allows them is to have optimal analog paths dedicated to single ended and balanced in a more efficient footprint since you don't have to carry the extra digital section as they did with 4499EQ. This together with PCB level isolation of digital and analog section.
Below is the internal block diagram of 4499EQ which used to house both the digital and analog parts. With the new architecture, they divided at the red line below where the left side is 4191 and the right side is 4499. The mode used in 4499 side determines if it is driving single ended or balanced. It looks like they dedicated a pair for SE and a pair Balanced to keep the signal paths isolated.
The challenge now is that the DAC is split into two chips right in the middle. Single chip (4499EQ) has the advantage of lower noise because it's all in one chip. The new 4191+4499EX has to route the signal through the PCB. Indeed the mono/stereo SNR is 2dB better for the older 4499EQ. But I believe the biggest benefit of the new architecture is the ability to completely isolate digital and analog sections at the PCB level. I suspect A&K managed to make up for that 2dB deficit with better isolated analog section. Really interesting move and this heavily puts the weight on the implementation skills of the DAP makers. Really curious to hear this one!
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