Astell&Kern AK380
May 17, 2015 at 11:31 AM Post #572 of 9,040
my lp12 is set up expertly and the springs last for 5 years, no problems

As it should. Cheers.
beerchug.gif
 The motor tilt​ screw tension is also a big deal and something many dealers miss. Just tight enough to stabilize the motor and send the least tension to the steel plate and vibration to the plinth is pretty audible. I'm also more fond of getting the speed right (More tilt) than flat against the pulley like many do. Speed affects how accurate the RIAA curve will be. Oops, getting off track......
 
May 17, 2015 at 11:36 AM Post #573 of 9,040
I was talking via PM with some people.

What AK did was test the market with their earlier flagship AK240, they've seen that product sell in high numbers without much fuss and now pushed the bar even further, in-turn test the market once again.

My thoughts are if AK240 didn't return as high sale figures it would probably remain their flagship as AK would know (by the figures) the potential of a higher model selling isn't worth the profit margin.

The consumers are the ones who initially decided if there'd be a new flagship from AK. By no means, I'm not buying any AK products nore criticising anyone either, but I do think they're pushing the average price of todays DAPs (and future DAPs from other makers) into ridiculously high price ranges.  



Ahh, but shortly before that was their first flagship, the 120, I suppose you could also argue the 100 which started it all but it was the 120 that went ove the $1000 mark and that was only two and a half years ago and only that short time ago people thought it was madness to pay that much for a DAP!

Heck, people thought it madness to pay a thousand for a headphone back then now that figure will hardly touch the high end and suddenly the likes of Stax are no more unobtainable as there are so many others of similar price.
though I think it madness who am I to talk, I was one of the mad ones to spend over 1k when that was thought to be mad!

The thing for me is not the cost, it's the shoddy customer care and consideration one gets after the player is barely a year old.

That for me is where the cost does come in. These players do not cost this to develop, market and manufacture but that would be ok as its like any luxury product but what you get with other luxury products that you don't get with AK is longevity of service and customer care!
By service I mean supporting the player within softwear updates more than two years after launch!

I know we live in an age of rapid development of products and that would be OK if the cost was not great but these players cost a great deal and AK are devaluing themselves as each time they launch a new product and the previous one becomes old hat those that "must" have the latest are going to be loosing even more money on the resale of their old players.

But then, writing that I realize they probably don't care! A fool and their money are soon parted!

For me, I jumped ship with the purchase of the Glove for my 120. The combination, for my personal tastes, sound better than the 240 as it feels more at ease and natural in the way it portrays texture and emotion, but that's jus for me.

I am absolutely certain the 380 will sound very "HiFi" and impress many with its abilities and bells and whistles.
Will it though sound almost $2000 better than what I have now? I doubt it very much and as I am one who has to work hard for those bucks they matter! That is after all, a lot of high definition recordings to enjoy and I think the money spent on those recordings is much more rewarding than on the last ounce of HiFi bells and whistles the 380 would give me!
 
May 17, 2015 at 11:37 AM Post #574 of 9,040
.
No, there was no HifiMan portable available at the booth !!!!!
Very, very disappointing ....
But hey, we are only customers. How can we expect to see a (new) product on one of the biggest HiFi shows of the world
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?
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Heard one at CES and then Axpona. It was clearly more sonically sorted at Axpona and simply very good.
smile.gif

 
May 17, 2015 at 11:43 AM Post #575 of 9,040
Ahh, but shortly before that was their first flagship, the 120, I suppose you could also argue the 100 which started it all but it was the 120 that went ove the $1000 mark and that was only two and a half years ago and only that short time ago people thought it was madness to pay that much for a DAP!

Heck, people thought it madness to pay a thousand for a headphone back then now that figure will hardly touch the high end and suddenly the likes of Stax are no more unobtainable as there are so many others of similar price.
though I think it madness who am I to talk, I was one of the mad ones to spend over 1k when that was thought to be mad!

The thing for me is not the cost, it's the shoddy customer care and consideration one gets after the player is barely a year old.

That for me is where the cost does come in. These players do not cost this to develop, market and manufacture but that would be ok as its like any luxury product but what you get with other luxury products that you don't get with AK is longevity of service and customer care!
By service I mean supporting the player within softwear updates more than two years after launch!

I know we live in an age of rapid development of products and that would be OK if the cost was not great but these players cost a great deal and AK are devaluing themselves as each time they launch a new product and the previous one becomes old hat those that "must" have the latest are going to be loosing even more money on the resale of their old players.

But then, writing that I realize they probably don't care! A fool and their money are soon parted!

For me, I jumped ship with the purchase of the Glove for my 120. The combination, for my personal tastes, sound better than the 240 as it feels more at ease and natural in the way it portrays texture and emotion, but that's jus for me.

I am absolutely certain the 380 will sound very "HiFi" and impress many with its abilities and bells and whistles.
Will it though sound almost $2000 better than what I have now? I doubt it very much and as I am one who has to work hard for those bucks they matter! That is after all, a lot of high definition recordings to enjoy and I think the money spent on those recordings is much more rewarding than on the last ounce of HiFi bells and whistles the 380 would give me!

There are limits in files and transducers as well. I haven't gone beyond the ak120 in their series either. I've got a PAW Gold here as well. They're different and the PAW does some stuff better than anything else but the ak120 with FW 1.30 is pretty satisfying when I feed it a great 24/192 file. I may try dropping the output impedance if I get around to it but it's not something I'm aware of in use and I like the simple dedicated OS.
 
May 17, 2015 at 12:39 PM Post #576 of 9,040
I do not understand why this super expensive player did not increase capacity or at the very least include 2 card slots...also why no real line out?
 
May 17, 2015 at 12:46 PM Post #577 of 9,040
  AK isn't creating a market. It discovered one and now everybody is cashing in as we're benefitting from players that sound better than ever from a variety of sources while all the same cheap stuff still exists at the same cheap prices as before.

 
 
Oh, pleeeeze....
 
 
AK are iRiver. Let's not pretend otherwise.
 
And iRiver didn't 'discover' any market.
 
They produced respectable but middle-of-the-road mp3 players for years, and then seemingly decided one day to cynically exploit those audiophiles around the world who cannot restrain themselves from spending disproportionate amounts of cash in order to satisfy their compulsion/addiction. It's barely any different from charging $3,500 for a 12 month supply of whatever other object/substance/experience an individual might be addicted to.
 
Whilst I concede that none of those compulsive audiophiles are physically forced to spend their cash on AK gear, that does not mean exploitation is not occurring. That's a key point. AK fanboys keep saying 'well if you don't like it, don't buy it', as if that excuses such sharp business practice, but it doesn't.
 
I have neither seen nor heard anything in an AK240 that I view as justification for it being price-tagged at anything more than half what AK's dealer network are selling them for.
 
I also wonder how many AK240 owners realise they literally put around a $1000 or so directly into the dealer's pocket, during the transaction (I've known about this for a long time).
 
It's a dirty little semi-open secret, which I've alluded to as the AK 'gravy train', in the past.
 
Heads should be hanging in shame, but it seems some people have no compunction about grabbing disproportionate degrees of money from their fellow humanbeings. Every person in the chain rightly deserves to derive a legitimate profit from their contribution to the chain, but the margins here are way outside the boundaries of what can plausibly be considered 'legitimate'. When Digital & Analog (themselves no angels) can R&D and produce their Calyx-M DAP for a thousand bucks or so all-in, don't anyone try to convince me that an AK dealer can consider their contribution to an AK240 transaction to be worth the same amount of cash.
 
 
  now everybody is cashing in as we're benefitting from players that sound better than ever from a variety of sources while all the same cheap stuff still exists at the same cheap prices as before.

 
iRiver does not deserve as much credit as you are giving them. There are many other engineers and companies working in the audiophile DAP marketplace, who do not exploit their customers to anything like the same degree as iRiver, but who nonetheless contribute to the evolution and improvement of DAP performance, at all levels of the market. People do not need to be cynically exploited in order for such evolution and improvement to occur. Dealers do not need to line their pockets with a thousand bucks on each DAP sale for such evolution and improvement to occur, even if the koolaid drinkers like to worship iRiver as the saviours of high-end DAP performance.
 
Nothing personal, goodvibes. I'm just addressing your points; not having a go at you, personally.
beerchug.gif

 
 
 
Even if I was an AK fanboy, I would still be asking myself a simple question:
 
Why does the AK380 have to cost so much more than the already-expensive AK240? It has a few more connectivity options, and a change in DAC chips, but other than that, it's barely anything more than a re-worked AK240. It doesn't even have increased onboard memory. We're not even talking about 'oh, it's expensive', per se, in this example.  In this example, I'm (hypothetically) 'accepting' the price of the AK240, but still questioning why the AK380 deserves to be sold for an even higher price. It doesn't. If anything, the development of the AK380 has derived huge savings in R&D from the foundational R&D of the AK240.
 
And all of this is before even considering the cynical stainless-steel bling stunt, a mere couple of months prior to the announcement of the AK380. I say this as a fellow audiophile DAP enthusiast: those of you who love and adore iRiver, worship them, and sacrifice your income at the altar of all-things-AK, are painting yourselves into an ever-more-confined corner, with regard to trying to justify the endless price increases with each new model release. I respect the personal right of each of you to do so, but it just doesn't stack-up, rationally, to this onlooker.
 
May 17, 2015 at 1:08 PM Post #579 of 9,040
I like the styling on the 240 more, but then I am a biased owner of an SS.

I am 100% with you on that. Btw, does anyone knows how the size compare between 240ss and 380?
 
May 17, 2015 at 1:22 PM Post #580 of 9,040
Assuming there are secret AK spies watching this thread, how about the reverse question - "what would it take for you to gladly give your $3499 to AK to upgrade from AK240?"
 
My needs are requirements
  1. 512 GB storage
  2. Full Android OS implementation (Tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google, etc)
    1. Smart watch controls for music
  3. Higher resolution screen for video playback
  4. AptX blue tooth with at least 10 ft range
  5. 10 hr battery life
  6. RWAK level sound upgrade
  7. No particular preference of DAC, but an advanced DAC setting option like Audirvana
  8. If SS is really something that adds to SQ, then SS case standard
  9. Expansion/Amp module included (or just build it in and make the player thicker)
    1. Class A, fully discrete design
    2. Full size SD slot
    3. Additional battery
    4. Optical input
  10. Included Accessories
    1. Premium USB cable (even ALO's $299 Rx amp comes with one!)
    2. Waterproof case (ok, I'm going to stop here LOL)
 
May 17, 2015 at 1:42 PM Post #581 of 9,040
I imagine people would still hook it up to Hugo (or Hugo II as I am quite sure Chord will follow suit if AK380 sells) to make the most expensive stack possible. Oh I almost forgot, a separate portable amp to complete the chain and also portable battery...  Seriously - with the money one uses for such ridiculous deck, just get a desktop rig. I have been through the whole stack thing (albeit at a time when things were more reasonably priced) - thinking back, it is just not the wisest thing I have done, to say the least.


Yes, I am one of those who just bought a 240ss and still hook it up to the Hugo. It is for that reason that I am totally not tempted by the 380 because I doubted that the new Dac chip in the 380 will out perform the Hugo. By the time the new amp module and other accessories are added to the 380 for carry, it will be close to the 240ss/Hugo stack anyway physically and cost wise.
 
May 17, 2015 at 1:50 PM Post #582 of 9,040
Did anybody listen/try AK380 ? Is it better than RWAK240 or same?
 
 
 
 
Like I said before,this time it is really ridiculous product.I don't suggest anyone to buy it.But,it is my opinion of course.
 
 
This time they changed DACs and concept only.I think 32 bit doesn't make a sense for now.DSD is enough.
 
 
@bflat
 
Like you said,if they did something really,it should be a good upgrade maybe.
 
May 17, 2015 at 2:47 PM Post #583 of 9,040
i dont like to attack anybody but a person who buys a 240ss and then hooks it up to a chord either has too much money or is loony.....why would one use a 3000 dollar DAP as nothing more than a transport?
 
May 17, 2015 at 3:00 PM Post #584 of 9,040
Yes, I am one of those who just bought a 240ss and still hook it up to the Hugo. It is for that reason that I am totally not tempted by the 380 because I doubted that the new Dac chip in the 380 will out perform the Hugo. By the time the new amp module and other accessories are added to the 380 for carry, it will be close to the 240ss/Hugo stack anyway physically and cost wise.

you should just get rid of the 240ss and buy the ak120 and use it as a transport.  Might as well sell the HUGO too given that many have stated that they iDSD micro is just as good for much less. Heck the PHA3 in balanced mode is a really good choice as well.  
 
May 17, 2015 at 3:04 PM Post #585 of 9,040
That is because half the time I only use the 240ss alone on certain trips. That combination gives me the flexibility to do it differently where the situation calls for. It can also be used as a desktop setup. With the combo I can share my music with another traveling partner on international flights. There are just so many variations a portable situation could call for. If you're not a portable person I can understand why it sounds loony to you. But all is well, no offense taken.
 

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