[phiemon]

If you don’t like having another discussion the topic why did you raise it again? I am relatively new here and don’t know anything about what you are talking about so please take your condescending attitude towards inferior people like me and stuff it. I asked for more information and you answer as though I should know what you’re talking about. I don’t have any other perception other than I like my SP3000. And what differences am I supposed to perceive when I have the SP3000 and nothing but the SP3000?

Please excuse me, I didn't mean to be rude. It's just that this topic keeps coming up, and in the end we agree to disagree. That's why I think from the outset that any discussion is pointless. In this respect, I just wanted to give my personal state of fact.

You live in Frankfurt. Get in touch if you come to Berlin and you're welcome to try my N30.

I’ve heard the SP3K.

Compared to modern DAPs (even the ibasso 320) also agree the amp is the weakest part of the sp3000 chain. It’s not “bad”. Just the weakest link in what is very much an all round excellent DAP. Less of an issue if you’re driving the majority of IEM but at summit fi level and headphones it is noticeable. Easily mitigated with an external amp (eg. Cayun c9, mass kobo 475)

I’m not alone in this assessment and I doubt a reviewer will write “the amp is terrible”. It’s not. It’s just not S or A tier for summit fi. In context, it is still better than the r6pro2 I’m listening to at present (driving Utopia OG) which is a whole different segment.

The DAC implementation is excellent and an improvement over the SP2000. And if you enjoy the AK flagship house sound you would find it hard to do better.

I would expect next generation to improve on it and would be interested to hear the 3000T when it arrives.

Exactly: it's not "bad", but it's just not as up-to-date for me, if you also use the DX320Max or M9+ for comparison.

 

[Kobe4ever]

Here we go again….

I love the Watercooler discussions and respect the people there. But some of them tend to stretch things a bit. I even read several posts that some IEMs scale and scale and scale when used with extreme desktop amps, delivering 17watts and more. And sorry, that’s utter nonsense.

Sure, you can go that route if it makes you happy but probably you will never be because when the 22watt amp is available, the IEM will scale even further.

Seriously, in the end It’s physics behind driving IEMs, not angel dust, and I tend to rely on professionals than to shell out crazy money because a „non-pro“ says something. The professionals I’m referring to are e.g. the people from headphones.com, for example. They tested the SP3000 and the clear statement is it will drive all IEMs properly and also headphones that are not hard to drive. They even host a headphone calculator for everybody to check. All my IEMs and headphones have enough headroom with the SP3k, YMMV.

But It’s still true, other DAPs have higher powered amps (not all, at least one TOTL has less - the Sony Z2, even the non-Euro version…) but maybe they come with drawbacks, e.g. waterfall hissing with sensitive IEMs, getting hot in the hands etc. and that’s also something I love about the SP3K. It never gets hot and it is the proven industry gold standard for It’s black background. No hissing ever.

Other than that, some people might prefer some slight sound characteristics changes between different DAPs, but that’s another thing.

Btw. I’m currently contemplating adding an external amp to my SP3k, the ibasso PB5. But not because I expect any improvement from It’s power (it has nearly twice the power of the N30) but because I’m interested in the sound characteristics of the tubes.

Here we go again….

I love the Watercooler discussions and respect the people there. But some of them tend to stretch things a bit. I even read several posts that some IEMs scale and scale and scale when used with extreme desktop amps, delivering 17watts and more. And sorry, that’s utter nonsense.

Sure, you can go that route if it makes you happy but probably you will never be because when the 22watt amp is available, the IEM will scale even further.

Seriously, in the end It’s physics behind driving IEMs, not angel dust, and I tend to rely on professionals than to shell out crazy money because a „non-pro“ says something. The professionals I’m referring to are e.g. the people from headphones.com, for example. They tested the SP3000 and the clear statement is it will drive all IEMs properly and also headphones that are not hard to drive. They even host a headphone calculator for everybody to check. All my IEMs and headphones have enough headroom with the SP3k, YMMV.

But It’s still true, other DAPs have higher powered amps (not all, at least one TOTL has less - the Sony Z2, even the non-Euro version…) but maybe they come with drawbacks, e.g. waterfall hissing with sensitive IEMs, getting hot in the hands etc. and that’s also something I love about the SP3K. It never gets hot and it is the proven industry gold standard for It’s black background. No hissing ever.

Other than that, some people might prefer some slight sound characteristics changes between different DAPs, but that’s another thing.

Btw. I’m currently contemplating adding an external amp to my SP3k, the ibasso PB5. But not because I expect any improvement from It’s power (it has nearly twice the power of the N30) but because I’m interested in the sound characteristics of the tubes.

Congratulations on what you wrote. I subscribe to your every word

 

[jh88]

Does anyone have a good rec for a carry case? I got a Miter case for the SP3000 and my iems, but it ended up being too narrow...

 

[nfandi]

Please excuse me, I didn't mean to be rude. It's just that this topic keeps coming up, and in the end we agree to disagree. That's why I think from the outset that any discussion is pointless. In this respect, I just wanted to give my personal state of fact.

You live in Frankfurt. Get in touch if you come to Berlin and you're welcome to try my N30.


Exactly: it's not "bad", but it's just not as up-to-date for me, if you also use the DX320Max or M9+ for comparison.

Apologies accepted and I offer mine in return. I just read what I wrote again and I don’t like it.

 

[William1955]

Does anyone have a good rec for a carry case? I got a Miter case for the SP3000 and my iems, but it ended up being too narrow...

I got one of these size B snug fit size A may be better for space.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004272482888.html?

 

[Progisus]

I love the Watercooler discussions and respect the people there. But some of them tend to stretch things a bit. I even read several posts that some IEMs scale and scale and scale when used with extreme desktop amps, delivering 17watts and more. And sorry, that’s utter nonsense.

Agreed and I have not spent much time there because a few posters lack credibility recently.

 

[denis1976]

Saying that the sp3000 has a weak amplifier is the joke of the year...this forum is becoming a comic com, the sp3000 is way more powerfull than the sp2000, the volume of the sp3000 has diferent gains from 0 to 50 them from 51 to 100 and 101 to 150 like sp2000 but now it can be used all the way with no distortion , it has plenty of power and no noise, this is the best i have heard, and for sure one of the best Dap of the moment, and the hatters and the wheel inventors can say what they want, maybe this scientists not even made the burn in, mine is better day by day

 

[Kobe4ever]

Saying that the sp3000 has a weak amplifier is the joke of the year...this forum is becoming a comic com, the sp3000 is way more powerfull than the sp2000, the volume of the sp3000 has diferent gains from 0 to 50 them from 51 to 100 and 101 to 150 like sp2000 but now it can be used all the way with no distortion , it has plenty of power and no noise

 

[phiemon]

.

 

[denis1976]

Again: it's about "quality", not "quantity"!

The Apple dongle is regarding quantity more powerful on the PC than the SP3000. If you don't believe me, you can try it yourself for 9 USD.

I also wrote it earlier: I had the SP3000 myself and was a very, very big fan. I had the opportunity to freely compare other daps. Honestly, I could return it or decide to keep it. Even better, I actually lost money when I sold the SP3000. Can you explain to me what reason I should have to be biased or anything? I even tried to persuade myself that the difference wasn't that big. It would have been much easier to just keep the SP3000.

For my sake, so be it: not the AMP then, but the DAC: the SP3000 is not comparable to others for me. Technically speaking, the SP3000 is simply not on a par with the DX320Max, M9+ or N30, and I think anyone who refuses to accept that is lying to oneself , of course in my personal view.

Sorry for my harsh tone but I don't agree if the criticism is not factual.

Is your opinion, is worth what is worth for me worth nothing, i know what i ear and know what i have heard from other daps, apple dongle ????????? You are reading what you are writing? Is an absurd, not even ibasso dc elite has more power than the sp3000, this only proves my toughts, people are talking for talking, you bought a 6k dap that is maybe totl dap that gave more problems in history i understand your pain , and another thing that i understand, i understand that people that like dx320 max dont like sp3000, even dc elite has a better tonal quality than dx320, so you cant like sp3000 they are diferent tunned daps

 

[nfandi]

Again: it's about "quality", not "quantity"!

The Apple dongle is regarding quantity more powerful on the PC than the SP3000. If you don't believe me, you can try it yourself for 9 USD.

I also wrote it earlier: I had the SP3000 myself and was a very, very big fan. I had the opportunity to freely compare other daps. Honestly, I could return it or decide to keep it. Even better, I actually lost money when I sold the SP3000. Can you explain to me what reason I should have to be biased or anything? I even tried to persuade myself that the difference wasn't that big. It would have been much easier to just keep the SP3000.

For my sake, so be it: not the AMP then, but the DAC: the SP3000 is not comparable to others for me. Technically speaking, the SP3000 is simply not on a par with the DX320Max, M9+ or N30, and I think anyone who refuses to accept that is lying to oneself , of course in my personal view.

Sorry for my harsh tone but I don't agree if the criticism is not factual.

I don’t listen to technicals, I listen to music. My SP3000/Nutopia makes music sound good to my ears. It also sounds bombastic with my CA Trifecta. When I add the PA10 it also sounds good with the Caldera. Not interested in those other DAPs they’re not stocked by my dealer. If those others you mention are better then firstly you have to define ‘better’ and after that I will tell you to go away, politely this time, and talk to people who care.

 

[IgeNeLL]

Three years in this field is way too much, if you ask me.

The SP3000 is heavily criticized because the AMP section is too weak. Yes, I know, some people don't think so. I was a huge fan of the SP3000 myself - until I noticed the noticeable (!) difference myself...

It is going to be an endless battle so. I want to give share some impression.

When you connect your phone to a MacBook Pro, you may notice that the MacBook has a stronger power output. However, the sound quality may lack depth and stage presence when projecting audio in a single layer. The MacBook Pro is well-suited for popular music genres like pop and rock. Any dongle capable of outputting a maximum of 2-3V can deliver strong audio, especially when the volume is raised to its limit, but it may lack musicality. The minute details of an object play a crucial role in determining its strength, sharpness, and impact, much like the way clipping or compression can affect the final outcome.

When paired with my IEMs, the M9+ lags behind the SP3000 in terms of detail and refinement, despite using the same DAC chip. However, when paired with headphones such as the Focal Utopia or Yamaha YH5000, the SP3000 still exhibits more detail and refinement, while the M9+ demonstrates greater power and control in terms of dynamics PEAK due to its strong gain and gain switching mode.

Some have suggested that connecting the SP2000 and SP3000 to a C9 amp can address the issue of insufficient power. However, there are drawbacks to this approach. I firmly believe that the SP line sounds best when used as a standalone device. Connecting it to another amp often results in decreased quality in terms of refinement, microdetail, flow, dynamic range (not dynamic peak), and the liveliness of the sound. The Hiby R8 may have inferior sound quality, but it can serve as a better source to output to the C9.

With my gear, such as IEMs, the SP3000 can drive them properly, but it cannot reach their full potential. The Hugo2, C9, or TT2 can reveal more in terms of control and dynamic range, but setting up a more complicated system is necessary.

When upgrading from SP2000 to SP3000, you will notice significant differences in the sound stage. Certain CD quality albums may have a broader sound stage when converting from DAR to PCM, similar to the distinctive sound of the SP2000. The SP3000 offers superior power compared to the SP2000, but it is larger, which is an important consideration in product design. In my opinion, the N30LE is excessively large, but a trade-off between more power and longer battery life often necessitates a larger size.

 

[phiemon]

Is your opinion, is worth what is worth for me worth nothing, i know what i ear and know what i have heard from other daps, apple dongle ????????? You are reading what you are writing? Is an absurd, not even ibasso dc elite has more power than the sp3000, this only proves my toughts, people are talking for talking, you bought a 6k dap that is maybe totl dap that gave more problems in history i understand your pain , and another thing that i understand, i understand that people that like dx320 max dont like sp3000, even dc elite has a better tonal quality than dx320, so you cant like sp3000 they are diferent tunned daps

I don’t listen to technicals, I listen to music. My SP3000/Nutopia makes music sound good to my ears. It also sounds bombastic with my CA Trifecta. When I add the PA10 it also sounds good with the Caldera. Not interested in those other DAPs they’re not stocked by my dealer. If those others you mention are better then firstly you have to define ‘better’ and after that I will tell you to go away, politely this time, and talk to people who care.

Do you understand now why I didn't want to talk about it? A discussion like that is absolutely useless. I got carried away, I was even busy yesterday when I wrote this message, and I couldn't really concentrate - and let it go at the same time. Apologies if my tone was inappropriate at any point. That really wasn't my intention, honestly . I deleted my last message, but it was already too late.

At the end of the day, all that matters in this hobby is what a person likes. If you and others are happy with the SP3000, that's perfectly fine. It has never been my intention to convince you otherwise in any way. I know that such attempts are absolutely pointless (see above). Instead, I was stating "my personal" (I have also emphasized this the whole time) state of facts.

I even wrote it up front that "better" (even in quote terms) is a relative word that cannot be generalized. I also mentioned that "better" power and technicality does not automatically mean "better" sound. That's also why, as I continued to write, I don't run the N30 at full power potential, instead I generally stick to mid-gain. Unfortunately, I only let myself get carried away because you blindly negate any kind of gain with more "qualitative" power, and with this negation you also question my personal, absolutely unbiased experience. This is not okay, I respect your opinion and I expect the same. Therefore, I apologize again if my messages have come across incorrectly.

What's more, I was "for" the SP3000 and "against" other DAPs the whole time. I loved the SP3000 so much that I swapped the black version for the newer copper version. And I was planning to keep the SP3000 at least until the SP4000. Switching to a DAP was never in my plans. Just as an example. Nevertheless, it's clear to me that at least the DX320Max and N30 are on a completely different level - technically AND sonically. I was also really disappointed that the SP3000 still doesn't deliver Tidal in bit perfect after so many months, even though updates have been promised time and again. That is definitely NOT a good service!

That's my last word on the matter.

@denis1976 You misunderstood my message. You meant that the SP3000 has enough power BECAUSE the volume can go so high. I gave you the Apple dongle as a counter-example: On the PC (not on the iPhone/iPad/Macbook!), at least on mine PC (Z590), the dongle delivers "quantitatively" more power than the SP3000. Example: My HD800S had to be operated at a volume of around 90-100/150 on the SP3000. For the same volume, I need 15/100 volume with the Apple dongle on the PC. Ergo: the Apple dongle on the PC has more quantitative power than the SP3000. Don't you believe me? Try it yourself for 9 USD with right of return. This is also an objektive and reliable fact and not a subjective perception.

 

[nfandi]

Do you understand now why I didn't want to talk about it? A discussion like that is absolutely useless. I got carried away, I was even busy yesterday when I wrote this message, and I couldn't really concentrate - and let it go at the same time. Apologies if my tone was inappropriate at any point. That really wasn't my intention, honestly . I deleted my last message, but it was already too late.

At the end of the day, all that matters in this hobby is what a person likes. If you and others are happy with the SP3000, that's perfectly fine. It has never been my intention to convince you otherwise in any way. I know that such attempts are absolutely pointless (see above). Instead, I was stating "my personal" (I have also emphasized this the whole time) state of facts.

I even wrote it up front that "better" (even in quote terms) is a relative word that cannot be generalized. I also mentioned that "better" power and technicality does not automatically mean "better" sound. That's also why, as I continued to write, I don't run the N30 at full power potential, instead I generally stick to mid-gain. Unfortunately, I only let myself get carried away because you blindly negate any kind of gain with more "qualitative" power, and with this negation you also question my personal, absolutely unbiased experience. This is not okay, I respect your opinion and I expect the same. Therefore, I apologize again if my messages have come across incorrectly.

What's more, I was "for" the SP3000 and "against" other DAPs the whole time. I loved the SP3000 so much that I swapped the black version for the newer copper version. And I was planning to keep the SP3000 at least until the SP4000. Switching to a DAP was never in my plans. Just as an example. Nevertheless, it's clear to me that at least the DX320Max and N30 are on a completely different level - technically AND sonically. I was also really disappointed that the SP3000 still doesn't deliver Tidal in bit perfect after so many months, even though updates have been promised time and again. That is definitely NOT a good service!

That's my last word on the matter.

@denis1976 You misunderstood my message. You meant that the SP3000 has enough power BECAUSE the volume can go so high. I gave you the Apple dongle as a counter-example: On the PC (not on the iPhone/iPad/Macbook!), at least on mine PC (Z590), the dongle delivers "quantitatively" more power than the SP3000. Example: My HD800S had to be operated at a volume of around 90-100/150 on the SP3000. For the same volume, I need 15/100 volume with the Apple dongle on the PC. Ergo: the Apple dongle on the PC has more quantitative power than the SP3000. Don't you believe me? Try it yourself for 9 USD with right of return. This is also an objektive and reliable fact and not a subjective perception.

That will never be your last word; you are too fixated on this is better than that, this has more power than that, and the more you tell me about this is better than that the more I will tell you I don’t care. No, I really don’t care. It’s a waste of your time and a waste of my time. I don’t live my life making comparisons between ‘objects’; I listen to music. I listen to the music NOT the equipment.

 

[phiemon]

That will never be your last word; you are too fixated on this is better than that, this has more power than that, and the more you tell me about this is better than that the more I will tell you I don’t care. No, I really don’t care. It’s a waste of your time and a waste of my time. I don’t live my life making comparisons between ‘objects’; I listen to music. I listen to the music NOT the equipment.

Hey, it's all good, honestly .

My invitation is still open if you ever come to Berlin.

Enjoy the week!