[miceblue]

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New single from 9mm Parabellum Bullet.  Remix of カモメ (Kamome) from their most recent album, Movement.
 
9mm Parabellum Bullet - カモメ (Strings Version)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A2%E3%83%A1_e.p.
 

Nice one, the singer's voice reminds me of the main singer for the Asian Kung Fu Generation band.
 
 
I think this was one of the first Japanese bands I've heard and liked.
 
The Pillows - Hyrbid Rainbow

 
This was the first Asian song I ever heard way back in the 6th grade.
 
Two-Mix - Just Communication (the opening theme for the Gundam Wing anime series)

 
 

 

[wind016]

 
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One symptom of being someone who has a vast collection of music from all different genres, cultures, and time periods, is that I have completely lost interest in music that sounds too similar to many other songs already in existence in melody, arrangement, and overall vibe. For example, a typical rock song with drums, guitar, bass, and vocals would have to be really inventive in its songwriting for me to even notice it. Same thing with synth-based pop songs, typical RnB, metal...etc. Essentially, if I'm already familiar with lots of others songs in a very similar style, I really don't need to hear another one unless it is truly unique in its own way, and by unique, I mean VERY INNOVATIVE. 
 
The sad thing is, very, very few songs out there can be described as such. Too many are just regurgitated versions and emulations of other similar styled songs. And the honest truth is, there's far less innovation coming out of most Asian countries than in other places, because generally speaking, Asian culture places so much emphasis on conformity and harmony instead of individualism and innovation. 
 
 
 

As much as you praise creativity from other countries, I haven't found a Western version of this type of music. If you could show me some artists like them, I would REALLY appreciate it. I love Park Ji Yoon's new style, but she hasn't written anything new. I'm also looking for more experimental stuff like the last few songs. I also have a question. What type of genre specifically are the music styles of the first couple songs?
 

 

 

 

 

 
Or even this type of rock would be nice.

 

[Lunatique]

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As much as you praise creativity from other countries, I haven't found a Western version of this type of music. If you could show me some artists like them, I would REALLY appreciate it. I love Park Ji Yoon's new style, but she hasn't written anything new. I'm also looking for more experimental stuff like the last few songs. I also have a question. What type of genre specifically are the music styles of the first couple songs?
 

That's basically just what I call the acoustic indie genre. Lots of western indie acts sound like that, combining quiet acoustic arrangements, quaint sounding instruments like melodica, acoustic guitar with folk influences, and a dash of accents from classical or jazz. If you start digging into the western indie acts, you'll find many, many of them sounding just like that. Pay particular attention to western indie films--especially the quirky dramedies, because those movies are usually filled to the brim with indie songs in that style throughout its entire soundtrack. The vocal style might be a bit different though, since the breathy style is more popular in Asia (particular Korea) in general.
 
I should clarify that I'm not saying there aren't original and amazing music coming out of Asia--my very first post of recommendations in this thread is a testament to the level of talent Asia has. What I'm saying is that the ratio of mainstream mindless drivel vs. innovative and imaginative indie/underground stuff in Asia is dramatically tipped in the favor of mainstream pop that all kind of sound the same, as if they are all produce by the same damn team of songwriter/arranger/producer. In the west, that ratio isn't tipped nearly as much in the mainstream today, since with the completely changed landscape of the music industry in the last 10 years or so, there is so much interesting and imaginative indie stuff coming out of the western music industry.
 

 

[Antony6555]

I think Japan has some interesting and weird pop stuff, for example "Morning Musume."
 
I'm not so much a fan of like Chinese or Korean stuff though. It seems like there's too much emphasis placed on just the image of the singer, like that they're cute, hot or whatever, and almost none placed on if they can actually sing or if it's interesting. We definitely have the same problem in the states though.
 

What I'm saying is that the ratio of mainstream mindless drivel vs. innovative and imaginative indie/underground stuff in Asia is dramatically tipped in the favor of mainstream pop that all kind of sound the same, as if they are all produce by the same damn team of songwriter/arranger/producer.

 
I agree with this. Having spent some time in China, whenever someone there tried to introduce me to music I was usually disappointed.
 
One time I almost went to this bar where they played "underground" stuff (supposedly) but it was closed. So I guess I'll never know. If anything I think Europe has the strongest independent music scene, at least for the type of stuff I'm into.
 

 

[Elysian]

I agree with Lunatique and Antony's comments as someone whose followed Japanese and Korean (both mainstream and somewhat underground) artists for a long time.  Fwiw, I know very little about Chinese and Taiwanese music, so my critique is limited to Japan and Korea.
 
If you look only at East Asia, North America (America and Canada), and Europe, I would consider North America and Europe far, far more musically inventive and innovative than Asia.  Japan's trance/electronica scene (though, it still annoys me to use trance in that way, since the trance of modern-day sounds nothing like the acid raves of the early 90s) still lags UK/NL production by at least 5 years, the Asian pop music is still very derivative of top-40 American and European producers (Korea is the most progressive among all the countries, but even then, everything sounds pretty dated compared to the big names from Bloodshy & Avant and Greg Wells to Benny Blanco and Stargate), and KR/JP hip-hop and turntablism is still buried in a very, very small subniche of the greater American hip-hop community.
 
The thing I like about Asian pop is that they execute very well.  It's kind of like how the overall composition and fit-and-finish from a Hyundai or Mazda are very good, but it's still very derivative and doesn't really advance the dialogue.  It takes a really, really long time for Asian artists to advance subgenres, and if you left DJ Krush or Denki Groove alone for 20 years, you'd come back and they'd still sound exactly the same.  The only exception I find to this rule are artists like Satoshi Tomiie who spend a considerable amount of time in the west every year.
 
And yes, the Park Ji Yoon work from her latest album is acoustic indie.  You could throw a dart at a wall and hit a dozen American or Canadian artists that sound very similar if you dig around a bit.  I actually hate the recording on that album.  The compositions are nice (though repetitive and boring after awhile), but on my setup, the breathing into the mic and the sound from fingers excessively running over guitar strings in between notes drives me nuts.  The problem with electrostats is that it's extremely unflattering about really bad decisions by recording and mastering engineers.  If I listen to that album, I need to use cheap headphones to get rid of all that detail.

 

[wind016]

 
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And yes, the Park Ji Yoon work from her latest album is acoustic indie.  You could throw a dart at a wall and hit a dozen American or Canadian artists that sound very similar if you dig around a bit.  I actually hate the recording on that album.  The compositions are nice (though repetitive and boring after awhile), but on my setup, the breathing into the mic and the sound from fingers excessively running over guitar strings in between notes drives me nuts.  The problem with electrostats is that it's extremely unflattering about really bad decisions by recording and mastering engineers.  If I listen to that album, I need to use cheap headphones to get rid of all that detail.

It might be just a problem with Youtube. It sounds wonderful through my rig (and never bored me?). I've been listening to the whole album for months. It's on par with some of the best recordings I could find and I've heard some songs that sounded pretty piss poor on the O2. I've heard CPop with much lower recording quality (Sammi Cheng), but no way would I say the Park Ji Yoon album is nearly half as bad.
 
Could somebody actually give me examples of those other artists? I can't find another artist that has nearly as womanly voice. I tried to get into some singers like Diana Krall, but they were way too husky sounding. I feel like Amy Lee from Evanescence actually has a similar voice, but I'd rather listen to a quieter genre most of the time... I like Tanya Chua's voice too, but someone like Park Ji Yoon's voice and style is a perfect match for my tastes.
 

 

[Elysian]

No, I don't listen to the album on YouTube.  It's a nice album all things considered, I just prefer it on a different setup.

 

[wind016]

Ah, I have 007s EQed with the treble shelved down a bit. I find the midrange to be a tad recessed and I'm a bit sensitive to treble.

 

[Lunatique]

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I agree with this. Having spent some time in China, whenever someone there tried to introduce me to music I was usually disappointed.
 

China does have some wild underground stuff, but most of it is just emulating really dated western underground stuff like Bauhaus or the kind of metal, goth, industrial, IDM, ambient...etc that we are already familiar with in the west. They might try to throw some traditional Chinese instruments or us pentatonic scale and sing about dead dynasties and Chinese legends to give it a Chinese flavor, but it's all still rooted in western sensibilities. At this point, this is unavoidable because western music has already influenced the entire world for over a century and the influence is so deep and complete that there's no getting out from under it. It's just like how T-shirts and jeans and baseball caps are everywhere in the world, and no matter how you try to add your own local flavor to them, they will always still be T-shirts and jeans and baseball caps that were invented and popularized in the west. 
 
I think the whole planet needs to just stop obsessing about it, because western culture is so undeniably 99% of all our lives--from technology, science, religions, entertainment, arts, philosophy, to just about anything else. Instead of trying so hard to assert one's own culture, I'd much rather musicians just try to make great music first and foremost. 
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The thing I like about Asian pop is that they execute very well.  It's kind of like how the overall composition and fit-and-finish from a Hyundai or Mazda are very good, but it's still very derivative and doesn't really advance the dialogue.  It takes a really, really long time for Asian artists to advance subgenres, and if you left DJ Krush or Denki Groove alone for 20 years, you'd come back and they'd still sound exactly the same.  The only exception I find to this rule are artists like Satoshi Tomiie who spend a considerable amount of time in the west every year.
 

Japanese and Korean musicians in the mainstream pop industry as a whole have much higher level of musicianship than western counterparts. They may not be as innovative, but they can take whatever stylistic formula from the west and then make it sound more sophisticated in the composition, arrangement, melodic development, production value...etc. Listen to pop album from western artists like Britney Spears and then listen to the examples I posted of the pop stuff I really like, and you can hear the Japanese and Korean producers/songwriters/musicians kicking the American's ass. 
 
I think there's a very simple reason for this. Asian culture often forces children to learn instruments and excel at them, and since they were children, they were forced to learn piano, violin, and whatever. And for those that do fall in love with music, they continue to become professionals in the music industry, and all the music theory and performance chops they collected over the years come into good use on pop productions. 
 
But in the west, many pop producers, songwriters, and musicians have no formal education or training, and it absolutely shows in their songwriting, arrangement, and production. They kinds of harmonic progressions they would use are so elementary that even first year music institute students can wipe the floor with their asses in terms of interesting harmonic progressions. The melodic development is also very basic and uninteresting--this is glaringly obvious to anyone who's extra sensitive to melodic contours. The arrangement is also much more sparse and simple, and very rarely lush or sophisticated. 

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Could somebody actually give me examples of those other artists? I can't find another artist that has nearly as womanly voice. I tried to get into some singers like Diana Krall, but they were way too husky sounding. I feel like Amy Lee from Evanescence actually has a similar voice, but I'd rather listen to a quieter genre most of the time... I like Tanya Chua's voice too, but someone like Park Ji Yoon's voice and style is a perfect match for my tastes.
 

The artists you mentioned are not acoustic indie. Diana Krall is mainstream jazz vocals. Evanescence is alternative rock with some goth metal influences. 
 
I'm not sure if what you're after has to be strictly acoustic indie--since that genre borrows a lot from other genres like light jazz, folk, or even vintage French pop. Also, it may not be the acoustic instruments that's the main ingredient that makes the music compelling for you--it may be mainly the vocal style. There are indie electronic artists who have similar vibe too. I'll give you some recommendations below (I'll only list western artists. If you also want Asian artists in similar styles, I can list those for you too):
 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Elysian]

To my ears, modern pop music isn't really designed to be lush or sophisticated, Asian or western.  I agree that Japanese and Korean producers generally created more complicated pop pieces that are generally more interesting to listen to, but they often get stuck into a rut for many years before moving into a new sound.  Within the US, the top-40 is all over the place, but I find myself getting a lot less bored than I do with Asian pop since various styles go in and out of vogue so quickly.  A lot of successful European dance producers often end up producing in LA and NYC since that's where they get the most exposure, and they bring a lot of European influences with them, further diversifying the pool.
 
I also disagree that the majority of western producers lack musical training.  Berklee has an admirable pedigree, with artists leaving a mark in almost every genre one can imagine.
 
I really dislike the way Asians learn classical music, particularly with traditional and conservatory teachers.  Technique is emphasized with very little in the way of style or soul, particularly when you compare top-flight Asian classical musicians against the French, Israelis, and Russians.  I think that attitude towards learning has a very pervasive influence towards creativity, whether in music or any other creative/design/performance-based discipline in Asia, as a whole.  A few break free of this, but most don't.

 

[Lunatique]

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To my ears, modern pop music isn't really designed to be lush or sophisticated, Asian or western.  I agree that Japanese and Korean producers generally created more complicated pop pieces that are generally more interesting to listen to, but they often get stuck into a rut for many years before moving into a new sound.  Within the US, the top-40 is all over the place, but I find myself getting a lot less bored than I do with Asian pop since various styles go in and out of vogue so quickly.  A lot of successful European dance producers often end up producing in LA and NYC since that's where they get the most exposure, and they bring a lot of European influences with them, further diversifying the pool.
 
I also disagree that the majority of western producers lack musical training.  Berklee has an admirable pedigree, with artists leaving a mark in almost every genre one can imagine.
 
I really dislike the way Asians learn classical music, particularly with traditional and conservatory teachers.  Technique is emphasized with very little in the way of style or soul, particularly when you compare top-flight Asian classical musicians against the French, Israelis, and Russians.  I think that attitude towards learning has a very pervasive influence towards creativity, whether in music or any other creative/design/performance-based discipline in Asia, as a whole.  A few break free of this, but most don't.

Pop can be anything, because it is the widest ranging genre in the history of music (even more so than rock). There certainly have been some very sophisticated and lush western pop songs throughout history.
 
I really wish that Asian producers can crossover and work with western artists--I think very interesting sounds can come out of the collaboration. The reverse has been true too, since lots of Japanese pop artists worked with western producers and songwriters, resulting in unique sounds unheard anywhere else (for example, Japanese West Coast pop in the 80's). 
 
I didn't say majority of western producers lack musical training--I said mainstream pop producers, which in today's music industry is mostly hip-hop, RnB, and electro pop. When we leave that specific group, the musicianship increases dramatically--that's where you find Berklee graduates. You really don't see those graduates working in hip-hop, RnB, or electro pop. They are usually more like John Mayor and Jeff Buckley types. 
 
And yes, Asian education is severely lacking in imagination and creativity--the whole planet knows this. They emphasize learning by rote and inflexible memorization, and does not encourage individual creative thinking. But the ones who do break out of it will reap the benefits of both hardcore disciplined training as well as having developed creative thinking--that's why the really good Asian composers and producers are so amazing. I mean, for those that know a thing or two about film scores, you really can't find western equivalents to Japanese composers like Sakamoto Ryuichi or Kanno Yoko. 

 
 

 

[wind016]

 
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  The artists you mentioned are not acoustic indie. Diana Krall is mainstream jazz vocals. Evanescence is alternative rock with some goth metal influences. 
 
I'm not sure if what you're after has to be strictly acoustic indie--since that genre borrows a lot from other genres like light jazz, folk, or even vintage French pop. Also, it may not be the acoustic instruments that's the main ingredient that makes the music compelling for you--it may be mainly the vocal style. There are indie electronic artists who have similar vibe too. I'll give you some recommendations below (I'll only list western artists. If you also want Asian artists in similar styles, I can list those for you too):

 

The music you listened are the genres I'm looking for, but I'm looking for vocals that are strong. I'd appreciate it if you or anyone can give some recommendations of Western or Asian artists. I was particularly enamored by Park Ji Yoon's, Tanya Chua's, and Olivia Ong's voices. I like Evanescence's Amy Lee because her voice also has a strong character without getting all husky.
 
Examples:

 

 

[Elysian]

Or the blatant rip-off of, say, Ryuichi Sakamoto from Trey Songz.  I completely agree that it's too bad there aren't more hybridized Asian musicians, as those tend to be my favorite.  I was a big fan of Satoshi Tomiie's SAW Recordings label and there was a lot of breadth to the label.  Similarly, some of DJ Krush's earlier work with Black Thought, Mos Def, etc., was fantastic, but now he seems to be on an instrumental kick, which is too bad.  Hitomi Uehara's collaborations are some of her most interesting work, and I think it speaks well of her musicality that she's able to mesh with other artists and keeping the composition well-constructed and balanced.
 
Conversely, some artists like Ikuko Kawai's interpretation of Piazzolla, I think completely misses the point of the music (whereas Yo-Yo Ma (granted, he's not an Asian-trained musician) has had a fantastic career interpreting world music with his collaborators).  I guess that can go for any region that isn't intimately familiar with another's culture, but I usually find Asian artists who don't have a proper understanding do the worst offenses.
 
Film and game scores are generally much better from Asia, such as Kow Otani and Hajime Mizoguchi.  Westerners have been on this kick to either imitate Hans Zimmer and Jeremy Soule, and everything sounds like a complicated, bland and unmemorable modern orchestral work.  Japanese scores particularly, for creative projects, seem to have more emphasis on melody and simplicity, which is nice.  Even well-regarded producers like BT and Massive Attack don't seem to do that great work on film soundtracks.
 
Anyway, I don't think the lack of formal training by a large contingent of western pop producers is a negative, but one could definitely picture how certain genres might sound very different if more people there had formal training.  Even then, there have been articles coming out that a lot of artists like Mos Def actually have decades of formal musical training, and the whole 'crack dealer/candy raver turns blockbuster music producer' myth is not as prevalent as many people believe.  Similarly, just as how High School band is a lot more popular than orchestra and chamber music for most Americans, I'm sure a lot of western producers have backgrounds in rock n' roll, jazz, blues, etc., rather formal conservatory training, again lending to a markedly different approach towards composition and production.

 

[Lunatique]

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Or the blatant rip-off of, say, Ryuichi Sakamoto from Trey Songz.  
 
...
 
Film and game scores are generally much better from Asia, such as Kow Otani and Hajime Mizoguchi.  Westerners have been on this kick to either imitate Hans Zimmer and Jeremy Soule, and everything sounds like a complicated, bland and unmemorable modern orchestral work.  Japanese scores particularly, for creative projects, seem to have more emphasis on melody and simplicity, which is nice.  Even well-regarded producers like BT and Massive Attack don't seem to do that great work on film soundtracks.
 

Your syntax is a bit confusing in that first sentence and might confuse people. For the record, Trey Songz "ripped off" (legally, or course, since I'm sure he paid the required fee to clear the sample) Sakamoto. He sampled Sakamoto's composition "Bibo No Aorora" for his song 'Can't Be Friends":
 
The whole state of film scoring in the west is a hotly debated topic. As a composer who hangs out at forums like V.I. Control and other composer/scoring communities, I see it as the number one topic among composers--the whole Hans Zimmer domination and copycats of his style, and how all that has contributed to what many perceive to be what killed the art of scoring. Personally, I think Zimmer has done excellent work in his career, and he's got strengths and weaknesses, and when he's good, he's very good good. People are too quick to judge, and the way they cry bloody murder, it's as if they think Zimmer murdered Hermann, Goldsmith, Morricone with his bare hands or something.
 
Not every accomplished musician/producer can score. Scoring is a unique skill that's very different from songwriting or just music in general. The reverse is also true--not all film composer can write great songs. I've seen classically trained composers for film completely fail at trying to write trendy music--it was an embarrassment to watch. 
 
 
 
 

 

[wind016]

This debate between Western music vs. Asian music is interesting and all, but I'd rather hear some more music.