[Lunatique]

Lunatique,

Thank you for posting this. I understand what you're talking about now. And have heard songs with a similar vibe on some older anime and Japanese TV shows, though I did not know the name of the genre.

It's not really disco. The style is similar, but not precisely identical to alot of adult contemporary music played in the US around the same time. Or what some might derisively call "elevator music", which was sort of a mix of soft R&B, smooth jazz/fusion, and "smoothed out" covers of pop tunes. 80's AC stations would often play artists like Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Sting, Barry Manilow, Whitney Houston, Sade, and other folks of that general ilk.

I like the vibe on several of your city pop tracks, and hope you'll post some more when you have a chance.

City Pop sort of like a mixture of westcoast pop, jazz fusion, R&B, soul, funk, disco, and synthpop.

I have a longer playlist with some of my favorite 80's Japanese pop/rock (some amazing songs on that list), and I think you'll find some you'll really love on it:

 

[ADUHF]

Right on. You can definitely hear that west coast funk and new wave/synth-pop vibe in the slap bass on some of your city pop tracks. I'm sure I'll enjoy checking out the other 80's tracks above as well.

I was in college on the west coast (LA, to be precise) during the 80's, so it'll be interesting to hear what folks a few thousand miles away on the other Pacific coast were listening to around that time.

 

[ADUHF]

More new music... This is the new, more trimmed down SNSD lineup, which they're calling "Oh!GG". Wasn't sure I'd like this w/o Tiffany and some of the others. But I actually do. The remaining members are: Hyoyeon, Sunny, Taeyeon, Yoona & Yuri.

 

[ADUHF]

Wasn't gonna post this. But I can't be mean to the BTS fans. I may not like this as well as some other recent tracks, but it's already raked in over 135M views in under two weeks. And will likely be one of the most-watched Kpop videos of 2018.

 

[ADUHF]

New Sunmi (of Gashina & Heroine fame).

 

[ADUHF]

 

[SilverEars]

Wasn't gonna post this. But I can't be mean to the BTS fans. I may not like this as well as some other recent tracks, but it's already raked in over 135M views in under two weeks. And will likely be one of the most-watched Kpop videos of 2018.

I cannot understand why they are so popular? I can't relate to their style or aesthetics (maybe I'm old. LOL. But, the kpop groups usually wear make-up and almost costume like attires). Style is a bit feminine. It used to mimicking American R&B and Hip-hop, but that has changed over the years, and a unique boyband genre has sprung up with it's own style that is quite different to relate. Perhaps if I was a female, I see something, but I really don't. This genre wouldn't be gaining momentum unless there's an audience for it. Same thing goes for Kdramas, as a man, I just can't understand why it's so interesting for women. They all seem so predictable and boring (kinda cringe worthy. Hehe).

Psy's that one video popularity I could understand, but not BTS.

 

[ADUHF]

I share some of your confusion, Silver.

Most young ladies are boy-crazy though. So I suppose it's easier to understand their enthusiasm for certain male idol groups than for some female groups. I suppose it's alot like the Beatles and the British invasion. Or if you want to go back a bit further, Elvis and Motown. All the above caused a fervor with youngsters, and even some adults, whether or not the artists could actually sing, write or even play their own instruments. Kpop is just one of the latest manifestations of that crazy and somewhat unfathomable youthful fervor.

Kpop is alot like Motown imo, with it's factory-like discipline, control, training and output by the labels. It was (and still is, in the case of Kpop) all about creating the highest quality product possible for the music, and now also video/multimedia consumer. Motown was imo the model SM Ent. and many others companies in Kpop followed.

We're in the 2nd, or maybe 3rd wave now though. And it seems as if some of that factory-like behavior is beginning to change... a little. And a few of the labels are beginning to recognize that some creative input from the artists can actually be a good thing for both the artists, and for their bottom line.

 

[SilverEars]

I share some of your confusion, Silver.

Most young ladies are boy-crazy though. So I suppose it's easier to understand their enthusiasm for certain male idol groups than for some female groups. I suppose it's alot like the Beatles and the British invasion. Or if you want to go back a bit further, Elvis and Motown. All the above caused a fervor with youngsters, and even some adults, whether or not the artists could actually sing, write or even play their own instruments. Kpop is just one of the latest manifestations of that crazy and somewhat unfathomable youthful fervor.

Kpop is alot like Motown imo, with it's factory-like discipline, control, training and output by the labels. It was (and still is, in the case of Kpop) all about creating the highest quality product possible for the music, and now also video/multimedia consumer. Motown was imo the model SM Ent. and many others companies in Kpop followed.

We're in the 2nd, or maybe 3rd wave now though. And it seems as if some of that factory-like behavior is beginning to change... a little. And a few of the labels are beginning to recognize that some creative input from the artists can actually be a good thing for both the artists, and for their bottom line.

Yeah, I could see that, just a different generation and manifestation.

It's interesting about what you say about Motown. Is that what Motown was? In a similar fashion, was it labels that trained artists for their debut? I think kpop is very strictly systematized like producing machine (which I find is not great for creative freedom, which I think current movie industry is really suffering from).

You should check out Explained by Vox media on Netflix. It has a good episode about kpop, which can provide some insights about it's origin, and how it manifisted, etc.. Edit: I just saw them point out the similarities to Motown.

What's interesting is that Red Velvet's 'Red Flavor' track (which I find quite catchy) was composed by a couple of Swedish composers. Caesar and Loui (Daniel Caesar, Ludwig Lindell). It's interesting that Kpop music is now being produced by people from outside the Korea. Perhaps tracks get sold and bought internationally, and I'm sure this goes on with US tracks as well.

https://www.toneglow.net/features/caesar-loui-interview

 

[ADUHF]

It's interesting about what you say about Motown. Is that what Motown was? In a similar fashion, was it labels that trained artists for their debut? I think kpop is very strictly systematized like producing machine (which I find is not great for creative freedom, which I think current movie industry is really suffering from).

I don't speak with authority on the subject. But from what I have read, seen and heard, it was a very similar kind of thing. The male and female artists in Motown were ALWAYS dressed to the nines (an old expression meaning they always wore nice suits & dresses). And they were taught how to act, walk, pose, and perform on stage. Their images, music and careers were all rigidly and carefully controlled by the record labels in much the same way as the Kpop industry, and in some ways, like the old Hollywood studio system controlled its talent. I believe the Motown women even had to take charm lessons.

And the music was mostly created and recorded by a few well-known (in the industry) ensembles of session musicians like the Funk Bros., the Wrecking Crew, and the A-team, rather than by the actual groups.

You should check out Explained by Vox media on Netflix. It has a good episode about kpop, which can provide some insights about it's origin, and how it manifisted, etc..

Thank you for this. I don't have NF, but maybe I can find something similar on YT or elsewhere. I believe you can find documentaries on some of the above, including the session groups on YT.

 

[ADUHF]

Yeah, I could see that, just a different generation and manifestation.

There is another sometimes overlooked aspect of Kpop that also helps to explain some of the fervor, fanaticism, and high view counts by Koreans, and to some extent the Korean diaspora. The music industry is viewed by Koreans and the Korean government as an important cultural export, and source of Korean pride. That's why some Korean Kpop fans (or stans, as they prefer to be called) seem almost duty-bound to support their favorite groups. This doesn't really explain the popularity of the genre in other places though, like South America, Europe, Turkey, and to some extent the U.S..

What's interesting is that Red Velvet's 'Red Flavor' track (which I find quite catchy) was composed by a couple of Swedish composers. Caesar and Loui (Daniel Caesar, Ludwig Lindell). It's interesting that Kpop music is now being produced by people from outside the Korea. Perhaps tracks get sold and bought internationally, and I'm sure this goes on with US tracks as well.

Indeed it does! Ever heard of the Swedish producer Max Martin? He and his teams at Cheiron and Maratone have written & produced many of the highest charting pop songs by well-known artists, including your beloved Maroon 5, and my beloved Ariana Grande and Taylor Swift, in the last few decades.

The Swedes are probably the best pop music composers and producers in the world. They wrote and/or produced many of Britney Spears', Katy Perry's and The Backstreet Boys' hits. So it doesn't surprise me at all that some Kpop labels are utilizing their talents as well.

According to Wikipedia, some of Martin's associates include Dr. Luke, Shellback, and Savan Kotecha.

 

[SilverEars]

There is another sometimes overlooked aspect of Kpop that also helps to explain some of the fervor, fanaticism, and high view counts by Koreans, and to some extent the Korean diaspora. The music industry is viewed by Koreans and the Korean government as an important cultural export, and source of Korean pride. That's why some Korean Kpop fans (or stans, as they prefer to be called) seem almost duty-bound to support their favorite groups. This doesn't really explain the popularity of the genre in other places though, like South America, Europe, Turkey, and to some extent the U.S..



Indeed it does! Ever heard of the Swedish producer Max Martin? He and his teams at Cheiron and Maratone have written & produced many of the highest charting pop songs by well-known artists, including your beloved Maroon 5, and my beloved Ariana Grande and Taylor Swift, in the last few decades.

The Swedes are probably the best pop music composers and producers in the world. They wrote and/or produced many of Britney Spears', Katy Perry's and The Backstreet Boys' hits. So it doesn't surprise me at all that some Kpop labels are utilizing their talents as well.

According to Wikipedia, Martin's associates include Dr. Luke, Shellback, and Savan Kotecha.

Interesting. Lots of Katy Pretty and Pink tracks as well. It sounds like he contributed to the modern pop evolution.

Just look at these, pretty impressive portfolio. He knows the right buttons for the pop hit sounds. A lot of the tracks I found to sound catchy is from this guy. Surprising.

On Wiki it says, "he has had the second most Hot 100 number-one singles as a producer (20), behind George Martin, who had achieved 23 by the time of his death." I guess Sweden knows pop music, perhaps from Abba upbringing? LOL.

Wiki says, "When accepting the Polar Music Prize, Martin highlighted ABBA, Kiss, Prince, Ace of Base and Lasse Holm as inspirations." I was kinda expecting that.

 

[mabuk]

Must remember not to sing along to chorus when out for a walk and listening with headphones...

 

[Lunatique]

I cannot understand why they are so popular? I can't relate to their style or aesthetics (maybe I'm old. LOL. But, the kpop groups usually wear make-up and almost costume like attires). Style is a bit feminine. It used to mimicking American R&B and Hip-hop, but that has changed over the years, and a unique boyband genre has sprung up with it's own style that is quite different to relate. Perhaps if I was a female, I see something, but I really don't. This genre wouldn't be gaining momentum unless there's an audience for it. Same thing goes for Kdramas, as a man, I just can't understand why it's so interesting for women. They all seem so predictable and boring (kinda cringe worthy. Hehe).

Psy's that one video popularity I could understand, but not BTS.

I didn't understand why BTS was such a big deal either. But then I did my homework and dug into their discography, and now I'm a fan. Don't look at just their most recent stuff--go back and trace their career trajectory and you'll see the range they have and the styles they've done. There are some really good songs in their discography. In fact, I would say that as soon as I became a fan (around the time when "Not Today" was released), their music took a nosedive in terms of the elements that attracted me. "DNA," "Fake Love," and "Idol" are all inferior musically to most of their title tracks previously. I think it's a real shame their popularity blew up just when their music went down in quality (or at least stylistically for me). Of all their songs since "Not Today," the only one I liked was "Singularity." I hope they return to form soon because I'm pretty bored by everything they've released since their explosion in the west.

Some songs of theirs to check out:

Not Today
Blood, Sweat, and Tears
Cypher Part 1, 2, and 3
Fire
Dope
Run
Spring Day
I Need U
War of Hormone
Danger
Boy in Luv

The choreography is really good for this song:

 

[SilverEars]

I'm thinking millennial music is heavily influenced by Swedish production (evidenced by Martin's success). They got some really unique stuff.