[Greymoor]

One of the things I find strange is with all the money spent on these cables the internal hook up wire on most amps is just that . . . hook up copper wire. No braided magic, no twisted leetness, Just plain wire.

Though I have seen amps with some nice wiring internally.


I am of the camp that if it "floats your Boat" have fun!!

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greymoor /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the things I find strange is with all the money spent on these cables the internal hook up wire on most amps is just that . . . hook up copper wire. No braided magic, no twisted leetness, Just plain wire. Though I have seen amps with some nice wiring internally. I am of the camp that if it "floats your Boat" have fun!!

This is my main gripe with that GD-Compass thing everyone is whinning about, looks like the wire they use on apple ibuds.

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif So people are wasting money for buying anything at over 50 bucks but its ok to spend 100 bucks for a DIY project with the beleif that it will not improve sound quality?

I can buy some decent bread at the bakery or even at some upscale supermarkets, for around $3 or $4 dollars per loaf. Yet, if I tried to make some of these artisanal breads at home I'd probably end up spending $6 or $7 on ingredients and would use up several hours of my time. Not being a professional baker, the best I could hope to come up with would be to make a bread that is close to as good as the bakery.

With DIY cables you are spending the money because you enjoy the project just as much as you need cables for your system.

I think the point is that good quality materials cost more and are a partial justification for spending money on buying cables. Solid build quality may not translate into better sound in the short term. A poorly constructed cable made of cheaper materials may actually sound the same as a more robustly built cable when new. What is the cheaper cable going to sound like in 5 years? Will it still work?

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikzen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can buy some decent bread at the bakery or even at some upscale supermarkets, for around $3 or $4 dollars per loaf. Yet, if I tried to make some of these artisanal breads at home I'd probably end up spending $6 or $7 on ingredients and would use up several hours of my time. Not being a professional baker, the best I could hope to come up with would be to make a bread that is close to as good as the bakery. With DIY cables you are spending the money because you enjoy the project just as much as you need cables for your system. I think the point is that good quality materials cost more and are a partial justification for spending money on buying cables. Solid build quality may not translate into better sound in the short term. A poorly constructed cable made of cheaper materials may actually sound the same as a more robustly built cable when new. What is the cheaper cable going to sound like in 5 years? Will it still work?

Probably behind a peice of equipment on a rack in the same physical condition it was in when it was new, maybe a little dust, right? What I dont understand is this, if Tarzan isnt swinging from your GD cables then why spend then why build then to out last **** roaches in a nuclear war? People piss and moan laft right and sideways about what a waste of money nice cables are and how they dont add sound quality to your system, then. the same slow pokes say crap like, "I just like them because they are more sturdy"!!! If I want a nice cable to improve sound quality and that is considered a waste of money then what is it when you want them to be more sturdy? Load of Bull.

 

[erikzen]

From personal experience with both stereo and guitar cables (especially guitar cables but yes, sometimes Tarzan, or someone who thought he was Tarzan, did swing from them) cheaper ones crap out on me. YMMV

Anyway, all I'm saying is that there may be some justification to spend more than $10 on a pair of interconnects and that sound quality might not be the only factor. Reliability may also come into play.

There may also be some difference in cable geometry or build material that can affect sound. I'm not saying it does or doesn't only that it may. However, I can't see how any wire, insulation, solder, jacks or whatever else goes into cable, can cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

The really expensive cable makers will tell you that "with some systems" the differences can be heard. In other words, if you don't hear any improvement with our cables, then your system really is kind of crappy. That being said, even if I spent $10,000 on my system I don't think I would spend proportionally more on my cables. Perhaps a little bit because I thought a certain cable looked cool and if I was spending more money on my rig, I would assume I had more disposable income.

 

[ThePredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Copernicus = Cable Beleiver The Church = Cable Disbeleiver Just so you have it straight. I cant hear a difference so cables cannot make a difference = I cannot see the curvature of the Earth so the Earth must be flat. Thanks for making our point for us.

Huh? Copernicus used verifiable observations and logical axioms to derive his hypothesis. Neither of those have been submitted that satisfactorily explain audible differences across a cable in the audible frequency range (the most frequently cited ones have negligible effect below RF ranges, e.g. proximity effect).



Another point that no one has satisfactorily answered, is why are the expensive cables so much better? What ultra high end cable manufacturer has the equipment to measure the differences us mere mortals are apparently unable to? If they do have such equipment, why do they not publish the results in a peer-reviewed manner? If they don't have anything of the sort, do they developing the cables purely by listening? Where do they get their wire? If they "make it themselves" are they drawing it themselves? Twisting and insulating it themselves? If not who do they buy it from that charge exorbitant prices (since nearly every wire is made in a limited number of factories)? Why do their cryo treatments cost so much when bulk treating should cost less than a cent per cable? When they say oxygen free copper, what grade do they mean (C10200 has almost no measurable conductivity difference from C11000 and in fact are required to have the same minimum conductivity, and I strongly doubt any audio cable manufacture uses C10100, though I would love to be proved wrong. Also consider that OFC is almost never used because it has better conductivity, but because released oxygen would be detrimental to its environment)?

I would not buy any cable for more than $50 if they could not satisfactorily answer every single one of those questions (just like I refuse to go into a store and buy a $50 shirt that was made in China for next to nothing).


[EDIT]: I would absolutely love to hear a PhD holding solid-state physicist's musings on the matter, if anyone knows of such an example please post it.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? Copernicus used verifiable observations and logical axioms to derive his hypothesis. Neither of those have been submitted that satisfactorily explain audible differences across a cable in the audible frequency range (the most frequently cited ones have negligible effect below RF ranges, e.g. proximity effect). Another point that no one has satisfactorily answered, is why are the expensive cables so much better? What ultra high end cable manufacturer has the equipment to measure the differences us mere mortals are apparently unable to? If they do have such equipment, why do they not publish the results in a peer-reviewed manner? If they don't have anything of the sort, do they developing the cables purely by listening? Where do they get their wire? If they "make it themselves" are they drawing it themselves? Twisting and insulating it themselves? If not who do they buy it from that charge exorbitant prices (since nearly every wire is made in a limited number of factories)? Why do their cryo treatments cost so much when bulk treating should cost less than a cent per cable? When they say oxygen free copper, what grade do they mean (C10200 has almost no measurable conductivity difference from C11000 and in fact are required to have the same minimum conductivity, and I strongly doubt any audio cable manufacture uses C10100, though I would love to be proved wrong. Also consider that OFC is almost never used because it has better conductivity, but because released oxygen would be detrimental to its environment)? I would not buy any cable for more than $50 if they could not satisfactorily answer every single one of those questions (just like I refuse to go into a store and buy a $50 shirt that was made in China for next to nothing). [EDIT]: I would absolutely love to hear a PhD holding solid-state physicist's musings on the matter, if anyone knows of such an example please post it.

What really begs to be explained is "did you read the entire thread of just pick up on one thing"?

 

[Bullseye]

The thread does not need to be fully read, as there are many objective answers that answer all the questions the subjective people claim without any proof, being the latter a big number, and the former the substantial ones. There are also some nonsense answers as the ones you write almost every time you write here, that do not need to be read.

Plus he only stated his point of view, and another way of approaching ripoff cables. Edit: If people can read your opinions, they can also read his.
EDIT2: Plus, I believe from the "cable believers" that there has been at least one or 2 that have not read the entire thread, have said they heard differences and you have not asked them if they had read the entire thread..

@Thepredator:

Quote:

I would not buy any cable for more than $50 if they could not satisfactorily answer every single one of those questions

So far you will not find those answers you demand.
Note: Oh and pretty soon -when i get the material- I will build my own cables for ~10€ (or 13.8$), and I will be able to build 1 RCA and 1 mini-mini plus I will have spare 3-4 cable with coating.

 

[keesue]

I've often wondered how much of a difference expensive can make if the vast majority of recording studios use Mogami? Are these expensive cables addding something the Mogamis didn't pick up? Dunno...

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Makes sense , they are silver plated and that would make perfect sense of your statement about being too bright for the 701. Did you know there are people who beleive all cables sound the same? They say if you hear a difference that it is an illusion that is all in your head. What do you think about that?

How do you know you're hearing a difference as opposd to thinking that you hear a difference?

Unless you can hear the difference when you don't know which cable you're listening to, you don't know.

Go ahead and attack the DBT methodology. But unless you hear the difference blind, you don't know for sure.

It really is that plain and simple.

Just as it is plain and simple that cable manufacturers mark up their products 3,000%, 4,000% or much more. You can put your head in the sand, but the truth is that you've been ripped off.

The cable business is exactly like bigfoot/yeti researchers. There is a possibility that bigfoot exists. However, when you take a close look at the researchers, they're either lunatics or frauds. I'm prepared to believe in bigfoot if, and only if, genuine physical proof is produced. Same with cables. Produce the evidence and I will accept it. Until then, I maintain those involved with cables are either deluded or hoaxers out to turn a dollar.

 

[ThePredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif What really begs to be explained is "did you read the entire thread of just pick up on one thing"?

I have read nearly all of it (not pages ~30-45 though), and I saw that particular analogy which I considered asinine considering the historical and scientific implications of Copernicus's hypothesis.

 

[dharma]

Can someone proof for person, who have 'elephant leg in his ear', that someones 1500 USD headphone is better than 50 USD crap/or not so much crap. What ever proof you give, it just do not help...
Can you put some 'good muslim' to believe in christian god? Can you, how?

Everyone believes firstly in himself and his own thoughts, maybe just maybe some other guys are rarely right too... it's always so, that 'neighbours' are wrong, but hello, we are all 'neighbours'.

 

[ThePredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharma /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can someone proof for person, who have 'elephant leg in his ear', that someones 1500 USD headphone is better than 50 USD crap/or not so much crap. What ever proof you give, it just do not help... Can you put some 'good muslim' to believe in christian god? Can you, how? Everyone believes firstly in himself and his own thoughts, maybe just maybe some other guys are rarely right too... it's always so, that 'neighbours' are wrong, but hello, we are all 'neighbours'.

You could use a high end reference microphone and record a test sample from each headphone under controlled conditions and look at frequency response.

 

[dharma]

Yeah, but he can say that this is '******** and just graph or numbers' and 'this graph is not reality - sound', or 'it is just small component from huge amount of different factors', or 'see, here are many similarities with 50 USD HP, or ' hey, there are many expensive HPs and everyone is giving different graph', or ' where is the super 3D sound part in this graph' or ...', or '...' ...

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have read nearly all of it (not pages ~30-45 though), and I saw that particular analogy which I considered asinine considering the historical and scientific implications of Copernicus's hypothesis.

Please provide us with proof that the differences between cables does not exsist before telling us they do not. You want proof? So do I! If you cant do that then your spinning your wheels.