[flargosa]

Just wondering with all the advancement in dac technology. I would guess something like the Schiit Modi, for example, is probably as good as $2k dacs of 5 - 7 years ago? I don’t have the latest and greatest dac, but would it be correct to assume something like a Modi or Bifrost is within 98% of the uber expensive ones in terms of all things measurable and audible? I would guess now the magic of dacs isn’t in increasing accuracy but in the tuning, maybe tune for wider soundstage, more real vocals, etc…along with correct equipment matching?

 

[sajunky]

Magic is in R2R as it was before, but it was obstructed by poor interface chips, hence a vintage R2R sound. Still OK today if implemented right.

One of these, $42 device served me well for one year, better sounding than $130 Topping D30
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881225029.html

Nobsound use a passive I/V conversion, much better than a poor opamp implementation.
Using it now on the road, on desktop is replaced with... Why not try $350 Audio GD R2R11?

 

[dematted]

Depends on the gear. Generally speaking, you will be able to get a more than 1-2% improvement from the best of, say, 800 dollar dacs than the best of $100 dollar Dacs. I'd say more like 20-30% improvement of the % that Dac's contribute to sound. But these things are hard to quantify, and those little percentages often matter. Its also true that there are plenty of 100 dollar Dacs that sound superior to dacs that cost twice, or three times, or ten times as much. But no, I don't think that, say, a Modi 3 is going to get you 98% of the way to even a Bifrost 2. Not in my experience.

 

[flargosa]

You sure it’s 20 - 30% difference? The $99 Modi vs $2,199 Benchmark Dac 3, seems like what you get for 10X - 20x the price is fractions of a percent improvement. The measurements comparison below shows it's very very close.


THD is Modi .0003% vs dac3 .00022%
S/N Modi 116 db vs dac3 128 db
Crosstalk Modi 120 db vs dac3 137 db

 

[dematted]

There's plenty you can hear that can't be summed up in 3 measurements. I haven't heard the Benchmark Dac 3 myself, though, so couldn't really say. I was thinking more along the lines of multibit stuff like bifrost 2 and the Soekris line.

 

[ThanatosVI]

You sure it’s 20 - 30% difference? The $99 Modi vs $2,199 Benchmark Dac 3, seems like what you get for 10X - 20x the price is fractions of a percent improvement. The measurements comparison below shows it's very very close.


THD is Modi .0003% vs dac3 .00022%
S/N Modi 116 db vs dac3 128 db
Crosstalk Modi 120 db vs dac3 137 db

None of those measurement differences are in the realm of what you can hear.
The sound improvements are elsewhere.

Afaik the modius measures better than the Yggdrasil, nonetheless the latter sounds better.

Those percentages thrown arround here are worthless, since there is no common basis. What someone describes as 2% improvement could be 40% for someone elses enjoyment.

From personal experience there still is a noteable difference between an PC onboard Chip, a 1k$ DAC and a 5k$ DAC.

 

[Bhk1004]

Why bother with a dac? Just use apple dongle.

 

[Whitigir]

Why bother with a dac? Just use apple dongle.

Right on brother !! Or a smartphone would do

 

[flargosa]

If the improvement cannot be measured, then what makes a more expensive dac better and what should be measured instead? I can see the reason for boutique resistors, capacitors etc, but not always a guarantee.

 

[driftingbunnies]

If the improvement cannot be measured, then what makes a more expensive dac better and what should be measured instead? I can see the reason for boutique resistors, capacitors etc, but not always a guarantee.

A Schiit Modi is only $99 or even cheaper used. Why don't you pick one up and compare with your Hugo and let us know?

 

[dematted]

If the improvement cannot be measured, then what makes a more expensive dac better and what should be measured instead? I can see the reason for boutique resistors, capacitors etc, but not always a guarantee.

Dynamics, detail retrieval, bass impact, staging, imaging, naturalness of timbre, decay characteristics, mid-range fluidity. A lot of things, really. To repeat, though: more expensive doesn't mean better. But there are audible differences between dacs. At least to me there is. And in my case, it's not particularly close.

 

[flargosa]

A Schiit Modi is only $99 or even cheaper used. Why don't you pick one up and compare with your Hugo and let us know?

I have the Schiit Modius, great sounding dac and very comparable to my Hugo. I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other, but they do sound slightly different in the upper frequencies.

 

[driftingbunnies]

I have the Schiit Modius, great sounding dac and very comparable to my Hugo. I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other, but they do sound slightly different in the upper frequencies.

I think one assumption that you're making is that only the budget dacs have been improving over the years. Similar to when you picked up the Hugo at the time, I'm sure you found a reason to keep it over some cheaper dac options. Those reasons still exist when comparing expensive and budget dacs today.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Just wondering with all the advancement in dac technology. I would guess something like the Schiit Modi, for example, is probably as good as $2k dacs of 5 - 7 years ago? I don’t have the latest and greatest dac, but would it be correct to assume something like a Modi or Bifrost is within 98% of the uber expensive ones in terms of all things measurable and audible? I would guess now the magic of dacs isn’t in increasing accuracy but in the tuning, maybe tune for wider soundstage, more real vocals, etc…along with correct equipment matching?

Percentages are very misleading especially when sound is the result of electronics travelling through many different components. Often times, the changes to sound quality are in the 3% improvement level. If you add several of them together, you get an incredible total improvement in sound quality. Everything in the signal/sound path contributes to the end result. Some more than others. Some changes cancel others out.

You can A/B test a bunch of products and say that there isn't that much of a difference in sound. But, you keep trying different combinations saying "do you like this one better or that one," If you do that enough times with different components then you compare the very first sound with the end sound and you can get tremendously different and improved end product.

In addition, Chimpanzees and Humans share 99% of their DNA, but it's that last 1% that makes all the difference in the world.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I think one assumption that you're making is that only the budget dacs have been improving over the years. Similar to when you picked up the Hugo at the time, I'm sure you found a reason to keep it over some cheaper dac options. Those reasons still exist when comparing expensive and budget dacs today.

I own a BTR5 and a Hugo 2. I can say with experience that there is more than a 2% difference in sound quality between these 2 DAC/Amps.