[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif You miss the point completely mate. It's not quantity I care for. It's quality I'm after. Quality The rest of the world can have all the quantity; the fast free-flowing Macdonalds burgers; the cheap underwear imports whose dye leaches off on the body; the powdery toilet paper which costs less than $0.50 per roll......the 99% of the consumer junk and of course - the digital MP3 downloads I'll settle with my Michel Gyrodec. Hell - the critics of vinyl LPs won't even know what these sound like with decent vinyl with a groove and needle which can move on a suspension platform to give deeper bass than anything digital noughts and ones can ever read. They'll be stone deaf to anything but the gentle crackles and pops of real organic music. Let them eat synthetic pop. Pop! Bop.

Isn't the OP about quantity though?

 

[Head_case]

Oh.

I dunno. Maybe I'm off-topic in my own little world again?

'obsolescence' equals ....lack of quantity?

High quality products, which sell in smaller volumes aren't obsolete (but maybe they're in 'danger' of becoming obsolete, hmm?) Paper and pen aren't obsolete, just because we use the computer to type. We might not use paper and pen en masse, however those who do, probably use it very well...and even better than the masses ever did.

I don't know...maybe the OP needs to chip in after 8 pages, to tell us what he's learnt from asking his question, and whether his opinion has shifted, or if it's just more entrenched?

 

[fatcat28037]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif ever did. I don't know...maybe the OP needs to chip in after 8 pages, to tell us what he's learnt from asking his question, and whether his opinion has shifted, or if it's just more entrenched?

I agree, a word from the OP would be helpful.

I buy CDs because they are the best sound quality available. Also I'm a collector, I like to hold the physical media in my hand, read the liner notes, log it in Music Collector and admire my collection. I just can't find pride of ownership in holding an iPod.

Backup is also a concern, 32 years in IT have ingrained in me backup, backup, backup. I'd bet most people don't do that to their PCDPs. lost, stolen, damaged.....you're screwed. I'll always have my "hard copy". My 2 cents.

 

[scompton]

Just before getting into computer as source, I had a stack of CDs stolen from my desk at work. Of course they were some of my favorite CDs too. I was bummed.

 

[dongringo]

My apartment was broken into twice. 20 or so cds were stolen the first time and about 30 the next time. Anything can be lost, stolen or damaged.

 

[Hsiu]

I buck up my music too, call me crazy, I have original disk, ISO copy in 2 separate harddrive each also have FLAC file (external) and one more flac copy in my laptop/PC hard drive separate partition from system partition that I listen to.

 

[eneloquent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcat28037 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I buy CDs because they are the best sound quality available. Also I'm a collector, I like to hold the physical media in my hand, read the liner notes, log it in Music Collector and admire my collection. I just can't find pride of ownership in holding an iPod.

I am a music fan, and a video gamer. So let me veer off topic briefly, and then bring it back - trust me, this will make sense.

Digital distribution is everywhere, but even before it was a success for music, it was a success for games. Steam was a hit, and set the standard. I signed up as soon as you could pre-order HL2.

But, I ordered the collectors box where they shipped me a package with a hat, posters, soundtrack CD - everything but the game. The game itself was still digital, downloaded, and played without a bit of it ever being read from plastic.

To this day, I have kept a rule - If there is a collectors edition (yes, I bought MW2 with the goggles) I will buy it, copy of the game itself included or not. I got Halo 3 with the spartan helmet, even though you can't really put it on a cat. I'm a sucker for tin cases, figurines, making-of DVDs, custom DLC, and odd shaped boxes that don't fit on my shelves right.

I'm also, obviously, not alone. Almost every major release has a collectors edition with some sort of value add, from the minor to the ridiculous (MW2 goggles, God of War box.) They always sell out. An original Bioshock with big daddy statue goes for 200 - 300 aftermarket now.

Back to the topic;
Music hasn't quite figured this out. Sure, every now and then there's a collectors/limited run of something, such as the GhostsI-IV box I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Honestly, the last CDs I remember buying were Emilie Autumn's laced/unlaced because it came in a hardback book, and Tool's 10,000 days for the holographic cover. Almost everything I've wanted since then hasn't had a collectors edition, or if so it's been anemic and not worth it. Having the physical media seems pretty unimportant if there's no extra value to enjoy - nothing that can't be perfectly replicated on the PC[*].

We are a market. And, not a small one. We spend stupid amounts of money for marginal increases in audio fidelity - we're pretty likely to spend an extra $15 for the limited edition box release of an album. And we are just a small portion of that potential market, which includes many "average consumers" who love the artists enough to pay $60 for a concert ticket, $45 for a t-shirt, and 15$ for posters - and, again, would pay for a special album release.

With this obvious demand, why are new CD releases so (pardon the pun) stereotypical, so germane, so.. bland?

I'll answer the OPs question with my opinion; Regular CDs are nearly obsolete, because they don't offer anything that's not digitally available in the majority of their market. There is a place for physical media, but to continue to be relevant it has to attain a higher level of differentiation. Jewel cases are bland. Neat packages are neat! Simple as that.

On another point brought up on this page - backups. Back to the games thing, Steam, D2D, Gamestop, Live, all keep your IP licenses tied to your account. As long as you're you, and this major business doesn't collapse and abandon it's millions of customers, you can get your stuff back - even if you lose every computer, every backup, every bit of data you own.

Most online music stores have the same model. Sure it's a pain to re-download, but it's there. I've embraced the cloud, ephemeral as it may seem.

[size=xx-small]* I'm not talking about bit rates, since this varies by store, artist, etc - Assume for purposes of this statement that everything is FLAC or 320kbps.[/size]

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh. I dunno. Maybe I'm off-topic in my own little world again? 'obsolescence' equals ....lack of quantity? High quality products, which sell in smaller volumes aren't obsolete (but maybe they're in 'danger' of becoming obsolete, hmm?) Paper and pen aren't obsolete, just because we use the computer to type. We might not use paper and pen en masse, however those who do, probably use it very well...and even better than the masses ever did. I don't know...maybe the OP needs to chip in after 8 pages, to tell us what he's learnt from asking his question, and whether his opinion has shifted, or if it's just more entrenched?

Writing as an Art form is dead.You only have to go back 20/30 years to see beautiful handwriting styles that are no longer used and no longer taught in schools.

It started with the introduction of the Biro into schools,it has been on a down hill run ever since.

Lucky for me I can remember a time when people carried Parker fountain pens and knew how to use them.

As for CD's,they are going the same way,we are turning into a society manipulated by the fast buck brigade.

 

[Deep Funk]

LPs are magical. Good recordings on LPs can sound like live sessions, timeless and fresh at the same time. CDs are good though.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eneloquent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll answer the OPs question with my opinion; Regular CDs are nearly obsolete, because they don't offer anything that's not digitally available in the majority of their market. There is a place for physical media, but to continue to be relevant it has to attain a higher level of differentiation. Jewel cases are bland. Neat packages are neat! Simple as that.

Not true about a lot of the music I listen to. The CDs contain booklets, LP liner notes, that I rarely see available as part of a download. The only times I've seen it available is when an artist is providing the album for purchase. I'll agree that for albums with just track listings and a piece of art, the physical CD is relatively meaningless. With classical music, which is half of my collection, the booklet can be the most significant part of the package. It doubles the price of operas, but I still want one with the book than one without or a digital download.

 

[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eneloquent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am a music fan, and a video gamer. So let me veer off topic briefly, and then bring it back - trust me, this will make sense. Digital distribution is everywhere, but even before it was a success for music, it was a success for games. Steam was a hit, and set the standard. I signed up as soon as you could pre-order HL2. But, I ordered the collectors box where they shipped me a package with a hat, posters, soundtrack CD - everything but the game. The game itself was still digital, downloaded, and played without a bit of it ever being read from plastic. To this day, I have kept a rule - If there is a collectors edition (yes, I bought MW2 with the goggles) I will buy it, copy of the game itself included or not. I got Halo 3 with the spartan helmet, even though you can't really put it on a cat. I'm a sucker for tin cases, figurines, making-of DVDs, custom DLC, and odd shaped boxes that don't fit on my shelves right. I'm also, obviously, not alone. Almost every major release has a collectors edition with some sort of value add, from the minor to the ridiculous (MW2 goggles, God of War box.) They always sell out. An original Bioshock with big daddy statue goes for 200 - 300 aftermarket now. Back to the topic; Music hasn't quite figured this out. Sure, every now and then there's a collectors/limited run of something, such as the GhostsI-IV box I mentioned earlier in the thread. Honestly, the last CDs I remember buying were Emilie Autumn's laced/unlaced because it came in a hardback book, and Tool's 10,000 days for the holographic cover. Almost everything I've wanted since then hasn't had a collectors edition, or if so it's been anemic and not worth it. Having the physical media seems pretty unimportant if there's no extra value to enjoy - nothing that can't be perfectly replicated on the PC[*]. We are a market. And, not a small one. We spend stupid amounts of money for marginal increases in audio fidelity - we're pretty likely to spend an extra $15 for the limited edition box release of an album. And we are just a small portion of that potential market, which includes many "average consumers" who love the artists enough to pay $60 for a concert ticket, $45 for a t-shirt, and 15$ for posters - and, again, would pay for a special album release. With this obvious demand, why are new CD releases so (pardon the pun) stereotypical, so germane, so.. bland? I'll answer the OPs question with my opinion; Regular CDs are nearly obsolete, because they don't offer anything that's not digitally available in the majority of their market. There is a place for physical media, but to continue to be relevant it has to attain a higher level of differentiation. Jewel cases are bland. Neat packages are neat! Simple as that. On another point brought up on this page - backups. Back to the games thing, Steam, D2D, Gamestop, Live, all keep your IP licenses tied to your account. As long as you're you, and this major business doesn't collapse and abandon it's millions of customers, you can get your stuff back - even if you lose every computer, every backup, every bit of data you own. Most online music stores have the same model. Sure it's a pain to re-download, but it's there. I've embraced the cloud, ephemeral as it may seem. [size=xx-small]* I'm not talking about bit rates, since this varies by store, artist, etc - Assume for purposes of this statement that everything is FLAC or 320kbps.[/size]

But.... I don't want all those doodads. I just want the music.

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Writing as an Art form is dead.You only have to go back 20/30 years to see beautiful handwriting styles that are no longer used and no longer taught in schools. It started with the introduction of the Biro into schools,it has been on a down hill run ever since. Lucky for me I can remember a time when people carried Parker fountain pens and knew how to use them. As for CD's,they are going the same way,we are turning into a society manipulated by the fast buck brigade.

Haha...I love my Parker fountain pen that dad gave me. I still use it regularly and I write a lot at work. Now an ink quill....that might be a challenge

Calligraphy hasn't died out; we might think it has, here in the provincial west. In the Far East and particularly China, calligraphy is a revered art form which has thrived against the soulless digital lexicon which removes man from the visceral nature of being: being in 'touch' with the ink and pen. Generally - in touch with all that is natural.

 

[dongringo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrift /img/forum/go_quote.gif But.... I don't want all those doodads. I just want the music.

^ Me too. The only time I'll even think about ordering a special edition is when there is a significant sound advantage like a 5.1 surround mix. All my cds and box sets and special editions just end up collecting dust. I welcome a time when I can download high quality music online. Bring it on!

 

[rabid1971]

Only just starting to post on this website, but my record buying pattern has changed alot over the last 16 years or so.
I remmeber buying cassettes to listen to first, mostly becuase i could listen to them in school on my sony walkman, but also like alot of people, i recorded music off the radio, like the top40.
Especailly since my dad had such a good hifi system for its time. Still think it resides in the attic, but hoo hum.

Anyway, bought CD's for years and never really thought about the sound they produced until i started to get seriously into HiFi. Then i chanced upon listening to a friends system, who i never really knew was into hifi. Anyway it consisted of a beautiful Linn LP12, and i have been hooked on vinyl ever since.

Its now come down to the point where i only ever buy Vinyl these days. I have about 600 CD's that i am begining to rip and put on my external Hard drive. Otherwie if i am honest, they would stay in the study and never really get listened too.

CD will die, because it never has instilled the love that vinyl has. For a few obvious reasons. (namely the poor packaging, and artwork, more disposable culture we live in, and the frustrations people have while listening to CD'd)
But i see the future very much like companies such as linn, with their digital music collections on hard disk. And as internet speeds increase, especailly fibre into home becomes more previlent. The bandwidth will be available, and i am sure the capacity to download FLAC recordings, even with apples itunes will increase.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haha...I love my Parker fountain pen that dad gave me. I still use it regularly and I write a lot at work. Now an ink quill....that might be a challenge Calligraphy hasn't died out; we might think it has, here in the provincial west. In the Far East and particularly China, calligraphy is a revered art form which has thrived against the soulless digital lexicon which removes man from the visceral nature of being: being in 'touch' with the ink and pen. Generally - in touch with all that is natural.

Well said,and is a reason that I will never buy any digital music,I like to own and collect and for that matter see what I have.
To buy anything and have it live in your pc is alien to me,that includes digital books as well.

Britanica on a couple BD's,give me the leather bound hard covers any day.