[scompton]

I think it's a matter of time before you won't be able to buy CDs in brick & mortar stores.

CDs came out in 83 if I remember correctly. I started buying them in 87 when some of my favorite artists stop putting their albums out on LP. I had 5 or 6 CDs before I bought a player. I went on a long vacation in November 87. When I left, records stores were about half and half LPs and CDs. When I got back in February, no stores in my area sold LPs anymore.

I'm sure CDs won't disappear quite as fast as LPs did, but they already are disappearing. There are few stores that still sell them and the ones that do have 1/3 to 1/2 the floor space dedicated to CDs. I wouldn't be surprised if CDs suddenly disappear from big box stores. Small specialty stores are few and far between already. I doubt they'll disappear any time soon from the internet though.

 

[dongringo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it would be great if iTunes or a different internet music store would allow you to download in various formats/bit rates, but I don't think that's exactly what the majority of customers want, deeming it impractical.

That's the problem. The majority of customers don't know they are buying inferior quality. People seriously need to be educated. Only then will they expect better download quality. Only then will they realize that better quality isn't impractical. After all, if a customer downloads a flac or wav file, they can then convert it to whatever lossy format they want, but still own quality digitally downloaded music.

People's ignorance about the music they download reminds me of a movie I just watched called Food, Inc. After watching that movie, I realized that I didn't even know where my food has been coming from. And for the longest time, I didn't know about the inferiority of compressed music. I mean, it's not like itunes or amazon are telling us that it's inferior. Just like the beef and chicken corporations don't want us to know what our food has been through by the time it reaches us, digital download stores don't want us to know that 256kbps mp3s are inferior. At one point in my ignorance, I wanted to know the quality of music I was downloading from Amazon and clicked on their description. I remember it clearly said that they offer variable bitrate with an average of 256kbps mp3 which gives their customers CD QUALITY sound. This was when I finally decided to do my own research on the matter. Well, I found out I had been lied to. Most consumers don't know they are being lied to.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dongringo /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's the problem. The majority of customers don't know they are buying inferior quality. People seriously need to be educated. Only then will they expect better download quality. Only then will they realize that better quality isn't impractical. After all, if a customer downloads a flac or wav file, they can then convert it to whatever lossy format they want, but still own quality digitally downloaded music. People's ignorance about the music they download reminds me of a movie I just watched called Food, Inc. After watching that movie, I realized that I didn't even know where my food has been coming from. And for the longest time, I didn't know about the inferiority of compressed music. I mean, it's not like itunes or amazon are telling us that it's inferior. Just like the beef and chicken corporations don't want us to know what our food has been through by the time it reaches us, digital download stores don't want us to know that 256kbps mp3s are inferior. At one point in my ignorance, I wanted to know the quality of music I was downloading from Amazon and clicked on their description. I remember it clearly said that they offer variable bitrate with an average of 256kbps mp3 which gives their customers CD QUALITY sound. This was when I finally decided to do my own research on the matter. Well, I found out I had been lied to. Most consumers don't know they are being lied to.

Good post - I've been wanting to see that movie since seeing it show up on some "best of" lists.

And you're totally right - things won't change until consumers are *educated* and demand better quality, no matter what it is. corporations will always do the least possible they can get away with to maximize profit, so it's up to consumers to educate themselves and insist on a fair deal. pawning off lossy files to unwitting consumers at a buck a pop isn't even close to a fair deal, imo.

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

Most consumers don't know they are being lied to.

Perhaps....most consumers are just being .... 'consumers'?

Otherwise they'd be like us elitist audiophiles

Gotta have a mass effect at the bottom of the food chain!

Well technically, Amazon's 'CD quality' is cd quality - the quality of a crappy MP3 recorded onto CD!

I like my mini-disc player. Unpretentious and uninteresting to most, but sonically superior to those crappy MP3s. I realise that .wav and flac files can be great, but that's not what we're being offered on digital downloads.

That's why CDs make a superior source material and for archiving, rather than relying on a HDD with a shelf life of a mere 5 years. Worse maybe with flash drive technology.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well technically, Amazon's 'CD quality' is cd quality - the quality of a crappy MP3 recorded onto CD!

 

[Commanderloochy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hsiu /img/forum/go_quote.gif beside the yet to come lostless legal download for everyone there is another thing that downloaded music cannot do which is the signatures of the artist. anything digital can be replicated but a hand signed signature on the medium can't (most likely). the excitement of your favorite artist sigh on your CD in front of you cannot be obtained via download.

Soon artists will be signing external hard drives...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Analog isn't going anywhere.. & 15.00 for a CD!! I buy all my CD's on Ebay.. Used cost between 99 cents to 5 bucks.. New under 10.00..

 

[Commanderloochy]

One thing I'd like to point out, I may notice more because I think I'm one of the younger head-fiers, I'm 18, is the way people listen to music now. The concept of an album is lost on most kids I know. They'd prefer to get their two favorite songs from an album and put it in a playlist on shuffle. Some music works this way, but actually listening to an album in it's entirety and in the right order is a whole different experience. It's kind of a new experience for me too, I was what you would call ignorant and didn't even think about sound quality. I didn't realize what I was missing until I started listening to flac, and made a conscious effort to listen to full albums. Most people don't have the attention span for that anymore. It's very sad to me in some ways.

 

[Hsiu]

This may not sound plausible or necessary but if there is a newer, better format replacing CD like VCD was replaced by DVD which now Blue Ray is gaining popularity if they are. we can still have high quality music on a physical medium that can be autographed and store for long time. I know it is hard because most people won't have the equipment to resolve the sound quality or care about sound quality but this is when CD can be obsolete happily.

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hsiu /img/forum/go_quote.gif This may not sound plausible or necessary but if there is a newer, better format replacing CD like VCD was replaced by DVD which now Blue Ray is gaining popularity if they are. we can still have high quality music on a physical medium that can be autographed and store for long time. I know it is hard because most people won't have the equipment to resolve the sound quality or care about sound quality but this is when CD can be obsolete happily.

Did you miss the whole DVD-Audio and SACD? Seriously they came and went so fast it would have been easy to miss

. Problem with Audio staying in a physical format is that even higher quality levels are not that large that downloading is too much (Bluray is still a pretty big download).

Just a note, not sure I would say VCD was ever widely used format but more of a niche format unless you meant VHS.

P.S. Forgot to mention I still buy CDs, until I can get it lossless I will continue to buy CDs.

 

[dongringo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commanderloochy /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing I'd like to point out, I may notice more because I think I'm one of the younger head-fiers, I'm 18, is the way people listen to music now. The concept of an album is lost on most kids I know. They'd prefer to get their two favorite songs from an album and put it in a playlist on shuffle. Some music works this way, but actually listening to an album in it's entirety and in the right order is a whole different experience. It's kind of a new experience for me too, I was what you would call ignorant and didn't even think about sound quality. I didn't realize what I was missing until I started listening to flac, and made a conscious effort to listen to full albums. Most people don't have the attention span for that anymore. It's very sad to me in some ways.

That's a really good point. I remember, and it wasn't all that long ago lol, when getting a new album, tape, or later a cd was an experience. Several friends would come over and we would listen to the whole album from start to finish, reading the lyrics, and really getting into it as a whole. I too got sucked into the convenience of mp3 downloads not really thinking about it and the album experience got lost, for awhile anyway, until I woke up to it. It can happen to anyone, just like a bad fast food diet.

 

[eneloquent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hsiu /img/forum/go_quote.gif This may not sound plausible or necessary but if there is a newer, better format replacing CD like VCD was replaced by DVD which now Blue Ray<snip>

See my post about NIN's ghosts. BluRay audio mastered at 96/24 seems like it would be pretty amazing (I have not heard an album this way yet myself.)

That said, with the prolific availability of bandwidth, you can download a rip of an entire BluRay disc in less than a day. The superior quality available on a physical medium is incredibly unlikely to outstrip - in terms of convenience - downloads. Not to mention the hassle of turning that physical data back into a digital file that can be put in a portable device, or managed en masse.

And artists sign ticket stubs and posters just as well - just saying, if you have the opportunity... there's other ways to get an autograph. If you have the right kind of pen, you can even get a shirt signed and it'll stay through the wash.

 

[smrtby123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps....most consumers are just being .... 'consumers'? Well technically, Amazon's 'CD quality' is cd quality - the quality of a crappy MP3 recorded onto CD! That's why CDs make a superior source material and for archiving, rather than relying on a HDD with a shelf life of a mere 5 years. Worse maybe with flash drive technology.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Yeah most people don't care. I even tell some of my fellow musicians about getting a proper pair of cans and not dl'ing mp3s and the response is "meh", but if it was different we wouldn't all be here complaining about Bose and iTunes.

There is a reason most companies still do backup to tapes, and do not use HDD.

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dongringo /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a really good point. I remember, and it wasn't all that long ago lol, when getting a new album, tape, or later a cd was an experience. Several friends would come over and we would listen to the whole album from start to finish, reading the lyrics, and really getting into it as a whole. I too got sucked into the convenience of mp3 downloads not really thinking about it and the album experience got lost, for awhile anyway, until I woke up to it. It can happen to anyone, just like a bad fast food diet.

I still do this, however by myself and after I rip the CD. I rip the CD, while the cd is ripping I am looking over the cover art and lyrics. Then continue to do that after I am listening to it after the rip.

Another thing bad about picking and choosing the songs you want is those are usually just the ones that make the press. Many times there are some gems on an album that never make the air, nevermind the "experience" of the whole album.

 

[Hsiu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eneloquent /img/forum/go_quote.gif See my post about NIN's ghosts. BluRay audio mastered at 96/24 seems like it would be pretty amazing (I have not heard an album this way yet myself.) That said, with the prolific availability of bandwidth, you can download a rip of an entire BluRay disc in less than a day. The superior quality available on a physical medium is incredibly unlikely to outstrip - in terms of convenience - downloads. Not to mention the hassle of turning that physical data back into a digital file that can be put in a portable device, or managed en masse. And artists sign ticket stubs and posters just as well - just saying, if you have the opportunity... there's other ways to get an autograph. If you have the right kind of pen, you can even get a shirt signed and it'll stay through the wash.

unfortunately the increase of bandwidth in many part of the world is like snails, there are many who does not have the privilege of downloading a BD/day which is why physical medium still necessary.

what so hard to ripping digital content from disk these day with all the powerful computer and simple software compare to 10~15 years ago where storage was tiny and software was complicated and prone to error/failure.

It might be just me, I felt that signature have more value on a person's work, I would like to have signature of a singer/ composer sign his/her/their album/ concert ticket and not some shirt. which is the same if the person is a fashion designer I would like his/her autograph on the cloth he/she design and not something else.