Are Audio-Gd DAC's all that?
Jun 14, 2010 at 11:22 PM Post #76 of 301
I am going to do a comparo over the weekend using my Oppo 83SE (ESS9018 dac) over the Audio-GD Dac3SE just received today.   The Oppo by its own right is not a bad player for under $1k, so it would be very interesting to hear the differences, if any.  Will be using a 30w class A tube amp with modified fostex 206e drivers in a pair of custom back loaded horn speakers.   Currently with the Mullard Nos 5AR4 rectifiers, TungSol's 6L6g's and Sophia Electric 6SN7's, the sound is warmish with good PRaT. 
 
Jun 15, 2010 at 6:21 AM Post #77 of 301


Quote:
I am going to do a comparo over the weekend using my Oppo 83SE (ESS9018 dac) over the Audio-GD Dac3SE just received today.   The Oppo by its own right is not a bad player for under $1k, so it would be very interesting to hear the differences, if any.  Will be using a 30w class A tube amp with modified fostex 206e drivers in a pair of custom back loaded horn speakers.   Currently with the Mullard Nos 5AR4 rectifiers, TungSol's 6L6g's and Sophia Electric 6SN7's, the sound is warmish with good PRaT. 

GREAT! At last the Sabre chip goes up against the PCM1704 with both devices well executed.
I wish I could listen in as that is some set up you've got and the comparison will be very interesting.
Are you going to run the new DAC3SE 24/24 before the test so its "burnt in"?
I will be back to find your comments.
Cheers
 
 
Jun 15, 2010 at 8:35 AM Post #78 of 301


 
Quote:
GREAT! At last the Sabre chip goes up against the PCM1704 with both devices well executed.
I wish I could listen in as that is some set up you've got and the comparison will be very interesting.
Are you going to run the new DAC3SE 24/24 before the test so its "burnt in"?
I will be back to find your comments.
Cheers
 



You need to run the 3Se 2 weeks straight 24/7.  It sounds real bad before this 9I I never believed in burn in.)
 
Jun 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM Post #79 of 301
Yep...thats the aim.  To be fair, the Oppo has around 100hrs of total play so far over 6 months use, so i'm gonna match the Dac3SE to the same drill initially.  I'm not familiar with the 24/7 burning in process.  Is it safe to run it all day like this?
Also, do you burn in by running a cd on repeat 24/7 or just leaving the unit powered 'on' for 24/7?  Wont be using my tube amp to burn in the dac for 24/7 as that's just asking for trouble!
eek.gif

 
cheers
 
Jun 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM Post #81 of 301
Quote:     Originally Posted by shogo33 /img/forum/go_quote.gif         ...... burning in process
 
I wonder if you might find it interesting to see if burn in does anything for your ears? If so you could use your OPPO as a control. Just listen to the DAC now VS the OPPO pre-burn in and makes some notes, then after e.g. one hundred hours to see if burn in makes any difference for you?
It might be worth finding out how much burn in Audio-GD gave your unit as I think they do burn in for some days before sending the DAC's out.
 
 
Jun 16, 2010 at 12:05 AM Post #83 of 301
To Nada:
 
I too would like to see if there would be a difference.  With my tube amp, i do believe in the burn in process as when i've clocked around 50 or so hours on it, the tubes warmed up heaps and didnt sound thin as it did initially. 
 
I will be using the Oppo as the transport via spdif coax out to the Dac3SE using a Belden 75ohm cable for cd's.  I will also be using my dell laptop for high res 24/96 files via Foobar - BNC Hiface - BNC Dac3SE. 
 
Jun 16, 2010 at 11:21 PM Post #84 of 301
Just a quick summary of my initial impressions so far.  This is without burn in, so things will/may improve after 200+ hrs of use.
 
Oppo BDP83SE (transport) via Coax out -> Belden digital cable 75ohm (RCA - RCA) -> AudioGD Dac3SE -> Monster 75ohm RCA Analog cables -> Weston Acoustics Tempest (TungSol 6L6g's, Sophia Electric 6SN7's, Mullard NOS 5AR4 rectifier tubes) -> Modded Fostex 206e's in custom back loaded horn speakers.
Jack Johnson in concert 2008 (16bit @ 44khz)
  -  The Oppo via analog outs had clearly better definition of instruments.  Also lower bass notes were well defined.  Overall the presentation sounded 'clean' and clinical, subtle nuances were clearly distinguishable.  However, the passages in the tracks where the dynamics went up, the sound was almost 'glaring'.  It almost at seems that the dynamics of the tracks were pronounced clearly when it occurs, but the glare disappears when the dynamics tones down.  I would say the sound signature is more of a 'forward' kind.  Sibilance is more pronounced and is quite noticable.  Soundstage is wide, and background details (crowd cheering, singing) came through quite clearly.
-  The Dac3SE has a more laid back, smoother approach to the overall sound.  However, that being said, all subtle nuances were well captured and were played smoothly without attenuating any particulars of the sound.  The highs shimmered and was well controlled.  The bass, especially lower bass is much more smoother but much softer and less tight compared to the Oppo.  The bass however, has 'tone' and quite distinctive. Overall presentation can be said to be more 'natural' or musical sounding without favouring any particulars of the frequencies.  Sibilance is not noticable at all! :).   Soundstage is much smaller than the Oppo, but background details were as good but with a touch of warmth.
After a good ear bash from Jack, i decided to try out some 24/96khz HD recordings.
 
 
Dell XPS Studio -> HiFace BNC -> Belden digital cable 75ohm (BNC - BNC) -> AudioGD Dac3SE -> Monster 75ohm RCA Analog cables -> Weston Acoustics Tempest (TungSol 6L6g's, Sophia Electric 6SN7's, Mullard NOS 5AR4 rectifier tubes) -> Modded Fostex 206e's in custom back loaded horn speakers.
-  Holly Cole Trio: Dont Smoke in Bed
Ok, not sure how to explain this but here goes.  The soundstage is a little wider from using the HiFace rather than using the Oppo as a transport.  The sound has much more PRaT than using the Oppo (transport).  Warmth is still there, just with more definition to the details.  This may be attributed to the HiFace reclocking the digital data and also using 24/96 files.  Although the Oppo was verified as a low jitter source via SPDIF coax out, but clearly here the sound improved with the added benefit of reclocking. The high's have much more 'air' around them. The lows:  Bass is still soft and sibilance went up a notch or two. However, truth be told here, this recording has an amount of sibilance in it due to the close mic recording of Holly's voice.  JKeny..beware, i'm about to place an order for a mod job.
 Will do a more detailed write up in the future after completing around 200+ hrs on the Dac3SE.  But so far, i'm happy with both the units and will definately keep them both.  I suspect that the Dac3SE will be much more forgiving of poor recordings where the Oppo just isnt and is much more 'neutral' sounding.
 
Jun 17, 2010 at 12:45 AM Post #87 of 301


Quote:
Just a quick summary of my initial impressions so far.  This is without burn in, so things will/may improve after 200+ hrs of use.
 
Oppo BDP83SE (transport) via Coax out -> Belden digital cable 75ohm (RCA - RCA) -> AudioGD Dac3SE -> Monster 75ohm RCA Analog cables -> Weston Acoustics Tempest (TungSol 6L6g's, Sophia Electric 6SN7's, Mullard NOS 5AR4 rectifier tubes) -> Modded Fostex 206e's in custom back loaded horn speakers.
Jack Johnson in concert 2008 (16bit @ 44khz)
  -  The Oppo via analog outs had clearly better definition of instruments.  Also lower bass notes were well defined.  Overall the presentation sounded 'clean' and clinical, subtle nuances were clearly distinguishable.  However, the passages in the tracks where the dynamics went up, the sound was almost 'glaring'.  It almost at seems that the dynamics of the tracks were pronounced clearly when it occurs, but the glare disappears when the dynamics tones down.  I would say the sound signature is more of a 'forward' kind.  Sibilance is more pronounced and is quite noticable.  Soundstage is wide, and background details (crowd cheering, singing) came through quite clearly.
-  The Dac3SE has a more laid back, smoother approach to the overall sound.  However, that being said, all subtle nuances were well captured and were played smoothly without attenuating any particulars of the sound.  The highs shimmered and was well controlled.  The bass, especially lower bass is much more smoother but much softer and less tight compared to the Oppo.  The bass however, has 'tone' and quite distinctive. Overall presentation can be said to be more 'natural' or musical sounding without favouring any particulars of the frequencies.  Sibilance is not noticable at all! :).   Soundstage is much smaller than the Oppo, but background details were as good but with a touch of warmth.
After a good ear bash from Jack, i decided to try out some 24/96khz HD recordings.
 
 
Dell XPS Studio -> HiFace BNC -> Belden digital cable 75ohm (BNC - BNC) -> AudioGD Dac3SE -> Monster 75ohm RCA Analog cables -> Weston Acoustics Tempest (TungSol 6L6g's, Sophia Electric 6SN7's, Mullard NOS 5AR4 rectifier tubes) -> Modded Fostex 206e's in custom back loaded horn speakers.
-  Holly Cole Trio: Dont Smoke in Bed
Ok, not sure how to explain this but here goes.  The soundstage is a little wider from using the HiFace rather than using the Oppo as a transport.  The sound has much more PRaT than using the Oppo (transport).  Warmth is still there, just with more definition to the details.  This may be attributed to the HiFace reclocking the digital data and also using 24/96 files.  Although the Oppo was verified as a low jitter source via SPDIF coax out, but clearly here the sound improved with the added benefit of reclocking. The high's have much more 'air' around them. The lows:  Bass is still soft and sibilance went up a notch or two. However, truth be told here, this recording has an amount of sibilance in it due to the close mic recording of Holly's voice.  JKeny..beware, i'm about to place an order for a mod job.
 Will do a more detailed write up in the future after completing around 200+ hrs on the Dac3SE.  But so far, i'm happy with both the units and will definately keep them both.  I suspect that the Dac3SE will be much more forgiving of poor recordings where the Oppo just isnt and is much more 'neutral' sounding.



Your description of the Oppo BDP-83SE's sound is basically what I heard until several hundred hours had passed. I left the 83SE on repeat for about three weeks (While not listening to it) before I thought the player had finished burning in. IMO it's still not a giant killer but it is a good performer at it's price point. Which is why I sent mine off to Exemplar Audio for modification. It's due back next week. At which point I'll see how good a 83SE can sound. Maybe at some point I'll be able to compare it to a Audio-gd DAC.
 
Jun 17, 2010 at 3:38 AM Post #89 of 301


Quote:
Just a quick summary of my initial impressions so far. ...i'm happy with both the units and will definitely keep them both.  I suspect that the Dac3SE will be much more forgiving of poor recordings where the Oppo just isnt and is much more 'neutral' sounding.


It looks like you've got two nicely complementary units there which will be nice for your listening options but makes this comparison less relevant as an indicator of  Audio-GD quality as your two machines seem to have been designed with differing objectives.
 
I wonder how two neutral DACs would compete head to head' such as the Audio-GD REF7 versus the Esoteric with the same PCM1704 chips.
Anyone got an idea how to organise this? Where are all those magazine reviewers when theres a valid question to investigate.
 
Jun 17, 2010 at 1:57 PM Post #90 of 301
What do you guys think about Usb-> hiface,   vs.  Firewire from a pro audio component (Saffire 24 pro DSP)?
 

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