aptX Adaptive / aptX Lossless USB Transmitters

[Sieppo]

Just wanted to thank everybody in this thread about the info posted and share my experiences of the issue. So I have the Philips Fidelio L3 headphones (which are actually quite good! The highest codec being aptx HD) but they have broken down and was looking to order the Sennheiser Momentum 4's (aptx adaptive), which I already tested in the summer but returned because I like the Fidelio L3 more on some aspects. In any case I know I have been missing out because Windows only supports aptx and my Samsung S21 also only aptx and LDAC.

Sooo, when looking at the M4's on Amazon the day before yesterday I somehow stumbled on the Sennheisers BTD 600's and was amazed since I did not know these dongles existed. However they apparently could not indicate if aptx/aptx adaptive was used, so a deal breaker for me. After that by some googling I found the Creative BT-W3 but it only has aptx HD. BT-W4 were very expensive and people here did not like them too much, and also no aptx HD (if i get my L3's repaired by warranty). So I tried to find a dongle that had both aptx HD and aptx adaptive and stumbled next into the Nura Bluetooth dongle 5.3 which had the capability but found it only for pre-order. After which I ended up ordering this one (all the aptx and also the QCC3056 chip):

https://www.amazon.de/ZEXMTE-Bluetooth-Kopfhörer-Lautsprecher-Kompatibel-Schwarz/dp/B09YTRZYTN/

I googled the chip and it seemed to be great. The dongle could also indicate which codec is used. Also during the googling i stumbled onto this thread and started reading it from the beginning. Somebody had tested a similar looking dongle and said, it only supported 16bit so promptly cancelled the order ..

Now, according to kind instructions from here I have finally ordered the Vaorlo QCC3056 T10P 24Bit:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004229460960.html?

If that one does not work, this one is the back up:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004650524024.html?

So all in all, thanks everyone! I'll be posting my experience once the dongle arrives at some point.

 

[helmutcheese]

If you read the thread, you would know the one recommended here is the KB9P as it has less issues that some of the others and has App/Firmware updates.

 

[Sieppo]

Isn't the T10P the totally same one but only with the antenna? I need the range.

Edit: at least mcnaugha recommended it for that.

 

[helmutcheese]

It is a totally different model, and I cannot remember if anyone here tried it and had any issues but the T9 had issues for at least one user here.

I do not think either has an App so no real control and no FW updates.

If an upgrade came out for the KB9P it would probably be called KB10P.

Someone the other day said the antenna does next to nothing on these, they need to be BT Class 1 and at least 10dBm to get 15m or more (less if through walls) and most are standard BT Class 2 so 10m.

 

[Sieppo]

It's no problem I can probably still cancel the order since its the Chinese new year for the next week. Maybe someone could confirm this?

 

[helmutcheese]

It is here in the thread but what page I do not know.

The KB9P is bigger and goes far, the Creative BT-W4 also in fact possible further and it is 100% a BT Class 1 15m device (states 10dBm in the specs), it was on offer last week but unlike the KB9P has no multipoint or 24/96 output if that matters to you but it could be added as it is a QCC3056.

 

[Sieppo]

Yeah noticed it actually is different visually, my bad.. Thanks again for the help! Now ordered the KB9P 24Bit from here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004338009281.html?

 

[Spektykles]

aptX Lossless isn't very useful. It might be available on 7th and 8th QCC series, maybe even LE Audio's LC3. Seems that not a lot of phones support it. Looks like only6/7/8 gen 1 and more recent ones have encoder libraries (based on researching some OTA updates of those devices).

TBH having something like FLAC as A2DP Vendor codec might be much better possibility.

We might see something interesting from FiiO this year. Well, hopefully. Not sure about aptX Lossless (which is actually aptX Adaptive r2.2/r3, and it's technically scalable-to-lossless), but AAC and LDAC will be present, maybe also LHDC, LC3plus HR and even FLAC (completely non-standard and probably it's not going to be possible to get 96/24 at all and especially with any acceptable range).

Given the prices of QCC5171/81 modules, it might be possible to get a DIY solution for ~30$.


UPD: Yes, QCC5181 seems the way to go. USB Dongle with this SoC will have LE Audio (with something called aptX Lite in addition to LC3), but not the aptX Lossless (which should be called aptX Adaptive r2.2 or r3). QCC3086 also seems to support USB Dongle firmware, but only SBC, LC3 and aptX/LL/HD/Adaptive. QCC5181, on the other hand, can run almost any other codec.

aptX Adaptive will also have an "BLE" mode too. Im waiting on QCC5181 and totally skipping 5171 because of the standards hell situation.

 

[betaphase1]

It's no problem I can probably still cancel the order since its the Chinese new year for the next week. Maybe someone could confirm this?

I have both t10p 24bit and kb8p 24bit. T10p with antenna does do something about the range I noticed by it at one time with antenna on and goes to the next room, there were no stutter with the sound, usually it should start making noise at that range. On the other hand the t10p has qcc3056 which is newer and more powerful than the qcc3040,also it supports 16bit 44.1khz not like the kb8p. Overall t10p is not bad at all and the seller told me today there is an assistant app too for t10p, I left my email address hope I can get it tomorrow

 

[Sieppo]

I have both t10p 24bit and kb8p 24bit. T10p with antenna does do something about the range I noticed by it at one time with antenna on and goes to the next room, there were no stutter with the sound, usually it should start making noise at that range. On the other hand the t10p has qcc3056 which is newer and more powerful than the qcc3040,also it supports 16bit 44.1khz not like the kb8p. Overall t10p is not bad at all and the seller told me today there is an assistant app too for t10p, I left my email address hope I can get it tomorrow

Ok thanks! Please write here if you can get the app from them and it works. The antenna and newer chip would be nice if it works the same way as the KB9P.

 

[O11111]

aptX Adaptive will also have an "BLE" mode too. Im waiting on QCC5181 and totally skipping 5171 because of the standards hell situation.

AFAIK QCC5171 already has aptX Adaptive for LE Audio. Well, at least earbud project should have. Anyway, LC3plus HR would be preferred because it (at least) is open source, so might be possible to get on PC.
Also QCC5171 and QCC5181 are almost the same chip except maybe some LE Audio stuff.

 

[mcnaugha]

AFAIK QCC5171 already has aptX Adaptive for LE Audio. Well, at least earbud project should have. Anyway, LC3plus HR would be preferred because it (at least) is open source, so might be possible to get on PC.
Also QCC5171 and QCC5181 are almost the same chip except maybe some LE Audio stuff.

According to Qualcomm at its Snapdragon Summit 2022, delivering aptX Adaptive and Lossless over LE will be a first for the 2023 SoC’s.

Microsoft did license LC3 (and possibly LC3plus) from Fraunhofer but there doesn’t seem to be any further indication of when it will be delivered. LC3plus costs US$7 per unit of a product. It would be a nice gift if Microsoft gave it away for free to Windows users. Alternatively, it may be a paid purchase from their store. How it compares to aptX Adaptive 24/96 remains to be heard.

The QCC5181 will deliver support for Qualcomm’s implementation of spatial audio with head-tracking, aptX Adaptive/Lossless over LE and Lossless goes up to 16/48 (from 16/44.1).

The 2023 SoC’s like the QCC5181 are not due to appear in products until H2 2023. If things play out like this year again, it could be very difficult to get your hands on them before the very end of this year.

LE Audio is majorly over-hyped. Everyone is falling for this marketing. LE stands for Low Energy. It just means less battery power Is used. Hardly worth getting excited about.

 

[wildemu]

Hello, I am looking to utilize my Focal Clear wirelessly for the first time with the PS5 and a TV streaming device. For wireless, I am trying to maintain an aptx adaptive connection for sound quality and latency.

So far from my research, I came up with setups like:

1. Qudelix-5K to support BT connection into Apple TV and USB for the PS5. I understand that Apple TV will not be aptx adaptive with this setup, will there be noticeable delay in the audio & video or can the "wireless audio sync" setting resolve this?

2. Qudelix-5K and Creative BT-W4 or Sennheiser BTD 600 transmitter that will wirelessly connect to PS5 via APTX Adaptive. Which dongle is better for this? Also, I would like to connect the dongle to a Fire Cube or Roku Ultra then since Apple TV doesn't have usb ports. I know that Nvidia Shield seems to work as I searched this thread's history, but it's currently a $200 3-year old device, really hesitant on investing in something so old but if it is the only option so be it. Does anyone know if the Cube or Ultra support the dongles?

I guess the biggest question is whether the Qudelix -> Apple TV BT connection is good enough without noticeable delays. It would save me from buying another streaming device platform and the dongle is also optional if I am willing to put up with connecting into the PS5 controller's dac or doing Qudelix usb setup.


This has been quite a headache lol.

 

[O11111]

LC3plus costs US$7 per unit of a product.

Can you please share where did you get this information from? Seems really a lot, actually. Also, is it LC3plus or its high resolution mode?

It would be a nice gift if Microsoft gave it away for free to Windows users.

Highly doubt.

Alternatively, it may be a paid purchase from their store.

Or they will just ignore its existence, just as they always do with cool things. How about that?

How it compares to aptX Adaptive 24/96 remains to be heard.

LC3plus HR source code is on the GitHub (newer version could be downloaded from ETSI). One can compare it right now. Would be very surprised if any human being could tell the difference, especially at higher bitrates, but at lower LC3plus HR will most likely win. And it's open source, meaning that people can actually use it. They are both 24/96 (not that it matters unless you're a bat, but still).

The QCC5181 will deliver support for Qualcomm’s implementation of spatial audio with head-tracking, aptX Adaptive/Lossless over LE and Lossless goes up to 16/48 (from 16/44.1).

And it's probably still only scalable to lossless. Which means there's no way to tell if it is really in lossless mode (not that anyone can hear the difference anyway). Also USB dongle project for QCC5181 seems to only have aptX Adaptive and Lite as LE Audio codecs in addition to LC3. Classic A2DP also doesn't have aptX Lossless encoding yet (only decoding is available now), hopefully it will be added later. Also good luck finding device which supports aptX Lossless. And we can throw into a trash bin all non-Qualcomm SoCs, all old Qualcomm ones (855, 865, 660, 695, 720 etc), all not-so-old Qualcomm ones which they decided to artificially limit for no apparent reason (remember that "cool" and "stylish" Nothing Phone (1)? It has FastConnect 6700, but no aptX Lossless and LE Audio, even though 6 gen 1 with same 6700 has both), all Intel/Mediatek wifi/bt cards for PCs and also Windows, because it's not going to have aptX Adaptive (nor Lossless). Linux might get it if someone would spend few months reverse-engineering aptX Adaptive libraries. Not even talking about Macs.

The 2023 SoC’s like the QCC5181 are not due to appear in products until H2 2023. If things play out like this year again, it could be very difficult to get your hands on them before the very end of this year.

This is very likely, actually. There's not a lot of QCC5171 devices even now, and there's no reason to think QCC5181 would be better in this regard.

LE Audio is majorly over-hyped. Everyone is falling for this marketing.

First change in Bluetooth audio in like twenty years? Yes, definitely over-hyped.

LE stands for Low Energy. It just means less battery power Is used. Hardly worth getting excited about.

No one cares about the "LE" part (well, at least, I hope so) but rather for full "LE Audio". Which will finally introduce audio broadcasting and LC3. Finally good call quality without proprietary Qualcomm stuff! Not that everyone needs it, but still pretty cool.

 

[Spektykles]

AFAIK 8+ Gen 1 not support aptX Adaptive r2.2/r3 over LE Audio, so its dead end too despite it promised support for LE Audio (and still no update yet). Atleast i can root my non-aptX Lossless-licensed device and add it LMAO (very few device license aptX Lossless aka aptX Adaptive r2.2, most of them only r2.1)
Microsoft license LC3 (no Plus version) to make their Windows and Xbox have BT 5.3 certification.