Apple Music Now with lossless high-res and spatial audio
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phixion
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Oh come on!
This is a game changer for those of us who love music and appreciate the highest quality available.
Who cares what the "average Joe" is doing with their bluetooth headphones? Lossless music for no additional fee is huge.
I will most likely stick to AAC for mobile listening as I tend to use Bluetooth anyway. For home listening I will be using Lossless.
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I'm glad you guys are psyched for cheaper lossless. I really am. I'm mildly hyped as well. But price reductions are not a game changer. They're merely an app changer, and only if the other streaming services don't lower their prices to compete! LOL Will this mean less money to the artists?
This comment is more directed to the tech sector in general, and I know it's a semantic argument, but we need to expect more from terms like innovation and "game changer". Again, a price cut was inevitable. This is all marketing terms anyways, and I'd rather keep some amount of distance between me and the hype. Carry on.
This comment is more directed to the tech sector in general, and I know it's a semantic argument, but we need to expect more from terms like innovation and "game changer". Again, a price cut was inevitable. This is all marketing terms anyways, and I'd rather keep some amount of distance between me and the hype. Carry on.
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redrol
Headphoneus Supremus
High res is mostly a scam anyhow. Very very little of it actually has extra high frequency information encoded. As far as streaming FLAC.. don't care. Real audiophiles collect music.
CharlyBrown
1000+ Head-Fier
Quoting my own answer:
How can I listen to lossless audio?
You can listen to lossless audio using the latest Apple Music app on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV.7 ('https://www.apple.com/apple-music/#footnote-8') Turn on lossless audio in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. You can choose between Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless for cellular or Wi-Fi connections. Note that Hi-Res Lossless requires external equipment such as a USB digital to analog converter.It is NOT limited to Apple headphones, you can use everything through an external DAC/AMP. Not sure about Android at the moment and DAPs but I bet, they will also work.
True, it is 9.99$
Question remains over wireless streaming as Airplay can support till 24/48KHz. So CD quality will work but not sure about their plan for Hi-resQuoting my own answer:
How can I listen to lossless audio?
You can listen to lossless audio using the latest Apple Music app on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV.7 ('https://www.apple.com/apple-music/#footnote-8') Turn on lossless audio in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. You can choose between Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless for cellular or Wi-Fi connections. Note that Hi-Res Lossless requires external equipment such as a USB digital to analog converter.
It is NOT limited to Apple headphones, you can use everything through an external DAC/AMP. Not sure about Android at the moment and DAPs but I bet, they will also work.
True, it is 9.99$
Who says Real Audiophiles collect music ?
Real Audiophiles listen to music. Just to put it in perspective Apple Music in India is available for $1/month. To be able to stream CD quality music for $1/month is a big thing considering Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors CD here will cost me close to $30~40 to own
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Never said it was limited to only Apple headphones. But how many of the Apple faithful have external USB DACs vs how many of them use AirPods everyday, all the time? Most basic users who are content with the iPhone pack-in earbuds prolly can't hear the difference between AAC and lossless. Most importantly, Apple has been beating the "you don't need wires" drum for 5 years, and they've sold a ton of airpods for that effort. Now you're telling me that the deliberately cumbersome approach to hi-fi computer audio that Apple has currently adopted for 3rd party hardware is now compatible with Apple Music? I mean, that's cool, but is that a big deal? Maybe that's not your (or anyone else's) point, but when people throw around hype terms like "game changer" I can't help but think the intent is I'm supposed to be impressed, when all I see is Apple needing to pad out their bottom line with more subs to hit quarterly revenue goals. The incentives are all commonplace and unremarkable.
I'm a big Apple geek. I WANT them to jump into hifi audio. Been hoping for that since that first click wheel iPod was released. I think Apple is in a unique position to single-handedly disrupt the DAP market with a truly great audio iPod Touch IF THEY WANTED TO. I just feel as a music listener, me moving a sub to a cheaper service is a low bar for innovation or "changing the game". Now of they were to be fully transparent about royalties and reimbursing artists, then I'd be more willing to say the game was changing. I don't need to be subsidizing Joe Rogan's overpriced contract with Spotify.
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I love good sound. I'm not an audiophile but I have some half-decent setups with my Shure SE846, my Hegel HD12 DAC+Schiit Magnius running fully balanced using a balanced cable to my Sennheiser HD800S and whatnot.
But I have such a hard time believing people can actually tell the difference between a good encode and lossless coming from the same master. I have yet to see any trustworthy evidence that is showing anything other than ~200 kbps VBR being transparent to pretty much 99% of all people out there. Obviously, some will be more invested than others and might train themselves to hear slight differences and young people will simply have better hearing compared to older people. Doesn't our hearing start to degrade from puberty or something around that time? And it just gets worse by the day from there. So the younger and less likely you are to have a decent setup the more likely you are to actually be able to have the hearing capability to tell the details apart.
I've been through a bunch of equipment over the years. I have never gone full crazy, but I do think my current setup using Hegel HD12, Schiit Magnius and Sennheiser HD800S are quite expensive and I enjoy it a lot. But when I sit down with Tidal HiFi, Qobuz, Apple Music and some Blu-Rays I most certainly can't tell them apart. And in scenarios I can tell them apart, it seems to be down to the master that is begin used and not because of it being 24-bit vs 16-bit, 192kHz vs 44.1kHz or lossless vs lossy. If I find the version from Tidal sounding the best I start comparing Tidals Master version with their own AAC version and those I can't tell apart so it's most likely due to me enjoying the master that Tidal got better than whatever master Apple got etc.
With that said I don't mind getting access to 24-bit, 192kHz, lossless for free. Which this basically is. I will obviously toggle the highest settings available. Why wouldn't I? I might not be able to tell them apart in comparison but the additional bandwidth doesn't cost me anything and if it's not hidden behind a higher tier pricing there is no reason for me not toggle this quality.
I have no issues with Apple going all-in on wireless. Why wouldn't they? All things point to barely anyone being capable of telling 24-bit, 192kHz apart from 16-bit, 44.1kHz apart. And everything points to Apple's use of 256 kbps AAC to be transparent to the vast majority of people in the world. As long as Apple is able to achieve transparent encodings at 256 kbps AAC and being able to use Bluetooth AAC to transmit this wirelessly it makes perfect sense for a consumer company to focus on wireless which brings a ton of added convenience to the users. Instead of focusing on what is pretty much snake oil and placebo that barely anyone will really be able truly to appreciate.
I hate to admit it myself. But after I got myself Apple's AirPods Pro my Shure SE846 is seeing far less usage. They do sound better, there is no denying that. But the pure convenience of the AirPods Pro is just more important way more often than not. And I got myself the Apple AirPods Max as well. They sure don't match my setup with Sennheiser HD800S but they do sound great for closed-back wireless headphones with great ANC. Unless I'm going to sit down and do some really focused listening I find myself using the AirPods Max in pretty much any scenario.
I'm not sure how this will benefit the AirPods Max. Apple is not able to do ALAC over Bluetooth. And I'm not sure how Apple is doing Bluetooth AAC? I'm sure they are applying some transcoding algorithm that is trying to affect the 256 kbps AAC as little as possible during Bluetooth AAC transmission but I don't think they are able to do it in any bit-perfect manner? So even though I'm not able to achieve Apple Lossless playback on the AirPods Max opting for using Apple Lossless should still improve the chain as instead of having an already lossy 256 kbps AAC source being transcoded using lossy AAC transmission over Bluetooth I would instead have lossless ALAC file being transcoded using lossy AAC for transmission.
The question is if Apple's use of on-the-fly AAC transcoding will be having a harder time maintaining the same level of quality for the transmission when being fed an ALAC source compared to an already encoded AAC source. Obviously, Apple's in-house encoding resulting in the 256 kbps AAC files available on Apple Music is going through a much better encoding process compared to whatever my iPhone is doing when tossing the ALAC file into Bluetooth AAC transmission. The question is if going lossless into lossy transmission will be better than doing the lossy into the lossy transmission.
But I have such a hard time believing people can actually tell the difference between a good encode and lossless coming from the same master. I have yet to see any trustworthy evidence that is showing anything other than ~200 kbps VBR being transparent to pretty much 99% of all people out there. Obviously, some will be more invested than others and might train themselves to hear slight differences and young people will simply have better hearing compared to older people. Doesn't our hearing start to degrade from puberty or something around that time? And it just gets worse by the day from there. So the younger and less likely you are to have a decent setup the more likely you are to actually be able to have the hearing capability to tell the details apart.
I've been through a bunch of equipment over the years. I have never gone full crazy, but I do think my current setup using Hegel HD12, Schiit Magnius and Sennheiser HD800S are quite expensive and I enjoy it a lot. But when I sit down with Tidal HiFi, Qobuz, Apple Music and some Blu-Rays I most certainly can't tell them apart. And in scenarios I can tell them apart, it seems to be down to the master that is begin used and not because of it being 24-bit vs 16-bit, 192kHz vs 44.1kHz or lossless vs lossy. If I find the version from Tidal sounding the best I start comparing Tidals Master version with their own AAC version and those I can't tell apart so it's most likely due to me enjoying the master that Tidal got better than whatever master Apple got etc.
With that said I don't mind getting access to 24-bit, 192kHz, lossless for free. Which this basically is. I will obviously toggle the highest settings available. Why wouldn't I? I might not be able to tell them apart in comparison but the additional bandwidth doesn't cost me anything and if it's not hidden behind a higher tier pricing there is no reason for me not toggle this quality.
I have no issues with Apple going all-in on wireless. Why wouldn't they? All things point to barely anyone being capable of telling 24-bit, 192kHz apart from 16-bit, 44.1kHz apart. And everything points to Apple's use of 256 kbps AAC to be transparent to the vast majority of people in the world. As long as Apple is able to achieve transparent encodings at 256 kbps AAC and being able to use Bluetooth AAC to transmit this wirelessly it makes perfect sense for a consumer company to focus on wireless which brings a ton of added convenience to the users. Instead of focusing on what is pretty much snake oil and placebo that barely anyone will really be able truly to appreciate.
I hate to admit it myself. But after I got myself Apple's AirPods Pro my Shure SE846 is seeing far less usage. They do sound better, there is no denying that. But the pure convenience of the AirPods Pro is just more important way more often than not. And I got myself the Apple AirPods Max as well. They sure don't match my setup with Sennheiser HD800S but they do sound great for closed-back wireless headphones with great ANC. Unless I'm going to sit down and do some really focused listening I find myself using the AirPods Max in pretty much any scenario.
I'm not sure how this will benefit the AirPods Max. Apple is not able to do ALAC over Bluetooth. And I'm not sure how Apple is doing Bluetooth AAC? I'm sure they are applying some transcoding algorithm that is trying to affect the 256 kbps AAC as little as possible during Bluetooth AAC transmission but I don't think they are able to do it in any bit-perfect manner? So even though I'm not able to achieve Apple Lossless playback on the AirPods Max opting for using Apple Lossless should still improve the chain as instead of having an already lossy 256 kbps AAC source being transcoded using lossy AAC transmission over Bluetooth I would instead have lossless ALAC file being transcoded using lossy AAC for transmission.
The question is if Apple's use of on-the-fly AAC transcoding will be having a harder time maintaining the same level of quality for the transmission when being fed an ALAC source compared to an already encoded AAC source. Obviously, Apple's in-house encoding resulting in the 256 kbps AAC files available on Apple Music is going through a much better encoding process compared to whatever my iPhone is doing when tossing the ALAC file into Bluetooth AAC transmission. The question is if going lossless into lossy transmission will be better than doing the lossy into the lossy transmission.
CharlyBrown
1000+ Head-Fier
I don’t know if it is really important honestly, and I am repeating myself on head-FI, but I bet only few (if any) can hear a difference between classic Apple 256kbit/s stream and Tidal Master when both come from the same source and are A/B double-blind tested, volume matched etc.
But it will appeal to the audiophile crowd and we can all use Apple Music with the good feeling that we get the best without sacrifices. At no additional cost. And all the others have to follow - see Amazon HD, which lowers their pricing _today_.
Good for all of us.
Spacial Audio could be cool (it is a gamechanger for movies), could be a gimmick for audio. We will see. Still it is cool and I am looking forward trying it with my AirPods. Maybe I will even buy the AirPods Max now. Apple is smart!
But it will appeal to the audiophile crowd and we can all use Apple Music with the good feeling that we get the best without sacrifices. At no additional cost. And all the others have to follow - see Amazon HD, which lowers their pricing _today_.
Good for all of us.
Spacial Audio could be cool (it is a gamechanger for movies), could be a gimmick for audio. We will see. Still it is cool and I am looking forward trying it with my AirPods. Maybe I will even buy the AirPods Max now. Apple is smart!
torifile
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The big question is whether the Android-based DAPs that can run Apple Music will take advantage of the new lossless audio. If so, that is a big win for those devices.
rlw6534
Headphoneus Supremus
Hehe. That would be strange, Android devices playing higher quality Apple Music than Apple hardware. I have to wonder if Apple will actually let that happen.
Finger Fish
100+ Head-Fier
Does anyone know if we'll be able to disable Dolby Atmos and Spatial Audio? I can't stand Dolby Atmos and want it off 100%. If we can't do that I'll probably just stick with Deezer.
torifile
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Well one of the clues this was happening at all was found in the android version of Apple Music.
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