[Artmuzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Artmuss, you've been buying headphones for 20 years and you are in college? Adult night classes, I hope. Had to say that.).

Well what is your problem of me studying something I am interested in even if it is night classes. It's just a hobby.

Maybe I didcome out a little dry about the phones but all I was saying was i was disappointed with the quality of sound considering they were expensive.

Nuff said!!


Art

 

[tstarn06]

Yeah, that would have been enough said. Also, nothing wrong with studying sound engineering as an adult, in fact, a worthwhile pursuit. Didn't mean to disparage adult learning/classes. It's a wonderful thing, in fact.

 

[cn11]

Is the kind of undermining and intimidation that's taking place here a condoned way of conduct on this site? I have read through this thread and find many of the comments very unfriendly and counterproductive to learning about this audio hobby that most of us enjoy.

Just a few of many examples:

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif All you stated is your opinion. A lot of people here disagree with that opinion. You were advised to return them if you didn't like them. Reiterating that flawed opinion isn't wise. Name calling on your part is even more silly. Your opinion means nothing to me at this point. I couldn't care less how much you like your CX300 vs the ADDIEM or if you think Apple shouldn't make IEMs. The CX300 have a pretty bad reputation here. I would never ever consider buying a CX300, never have. If that's your opinion of excellent IEMs more power to you. You probably posted here thinking you would get support for bashing the Apple IEM. So sorry to disappoint you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think he is saying people here consider the CX300 to be pretty bad. Your vitriolic defense for them is surprising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, we know that now. My point was that you could've expressed yourself better. Also, to many people, liking CX300 is not the best way to show that ou have good taste in headphones...

 

[Zalithian]

It's cute you omitted the examples about ADDIEMS sucking and being worse than $5 buds. Or stating they should be 60% cheaper, or how the CX300's are way better for a lower cost.

oarnura and jonathan should not have been so harsh, but Art was pretty much a dick about how he went about it. "I am totally an audio expert, I know the CX300's are so much better." when it's clear to any audio expert that the ADDIEMS produce a much more accurate sound than the CX300's. He's entitled to his opinion and can like bassy phones more than flat ones, but to call them trash etc was totally uncalled for and downright misleading.

Don't lay all the blame on the two people who defended the ADDIEMS.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's cute you omitted the examples about ADDIEMS sucking and being worse than $5 buds. Or stating they should be 60% cheaper, or how the CX300's are way better for a lower cost. oarnura and jonathan should not have been so harsh, but Art was pretty much a dick about how he went about it. "I am totally an audio expert, I know the CX300's are so much better." when it's clear to any audio expert that the ADDIEMS produce a much more accurate sound than the CX300's. He's entitled to his opinion and can like bassy phones more than flat ones, but to call them trash etc was totally uncalled for and downright misleading. Don't lay all the blame on the two people who defended the ADDIEMS.

I chose quotes from two of the most active posters. There were others I could have picked as well. If you note I did state that in my post. I would like to see a quote of the comment about the ADDIEMS being 'worse than $5 buds' because I don't remember that. But I guess you can't pull that quote because it was never said. Get your facts straight.

 

[Zalithian]

Sorry, let me go pull up some quotes about it being garbage and how he was duped and lied to, or how clearly inferior buds were better. Hold on.

Here are some. I guess you must have somehow missed them, or decided to only show one side of the argument. You pick 3 quotes and don't even bother quoting the person who started the thread calling the ADDIEMS trash. Very nice. So defending headphones with a certain tone isn't fine, but stating your opinion as fact, declaring you are an expert and calling stuff horrible is fine. I really don't understand your position.

Quote:

My Sennheiser CX300 sound far superior and the phones that came with my excellent Sony S639F also sound superior.

Quote:

I was totally duped by Apple and reviews on the net. Thank you Apple Apple should of sold those phones for about £20 but I guess its Apple being greedy again. Apple should basically stick to making Computers,laptops and iPods and leave earphones to the experts like Sennheiser,Sony, Bose etc

Quote:

hahaha oh dear!! Well atleast all the good reviews about the CX300 were right. So sorry to disappoint you there. Plus they were alot cheaper than the horrible Apple phones.

Quote:

Well I can tell you I have been buying earphones for 20 years now so I should know what are good phones and not so good phones IMHO. Also I am studying sound Engineering at college so I should know.

 

[Fallen]

I like the ADDIEMs, and I didn't like the cx300s. I'm actually involved in this thread, I posted earlier. Somewhere on the first page.

I like apple products, you can call me a fanboy. (though I threw away my ibuds, and for years constantly encouraged people to do the same).

Though the OP expressed disagreement with my point of view (that I like the ADDIEMs, I think they're pretty good) I actually find nothing wrong in either sides exchange. It was an expression of disagreement.

People can disagree, and people in this forum have used worse language and more personal attacks. It isn't common, which I applaud, and I enjoy the fact that this is one of the most civil forums on the internet, especially as it covers a fairly mainstream subject, which is headphones. Though the forum has its esoteric elements, in general it concerns a subject that a large portion of the population has an interest in.

I think we tend to police each other, and in the same way nudity is MOSTLY frowned upon at dinner parties, its up to the community to say when people have stepped out of line.

What I'm saying is...

I'm fine with people disagreeing. I'm fine with others saying when people disagreeing have stepped over the line. AND I actually like this kind of exchange, when people let others know what's cool and acceptable and what isn't.

This is the reason I like this forum.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, let me go pull up some quotes about it being garbage and how he was duped and lied to, or how clearly inferior buds were better. Hold on. Here are some. I guess you must have somehow missed them, or decided to only show one side of the argument. You pick 3 quotes and don't even bother quoting the person who started the thread calling the ADDIEMS trash. Very nice. So defending headphones with a certain tone isn't fine, but stating your opinion as fact, declaring you are an expert and calling stuff horrible is fine. I really don't understand your position.

The point I was trying to make, and which has already been made here in this thread, is that the OP is entitled to his opinion about the sound quality he's hearing. Sure it may have not been well substantiated with sound quality descriptions and such, but I have always felt that this forum is about stating what you hear. I don't see what the big deal is if he feels they are crap. The posters I called out took the opportunity to attack him, and insinuate that HE has very poor taste for even mentioning the CX300's in the same sentence, or whatever. If I were the OP, I'd feel insulted and very turned off by the exchange here.

 

[Zalithian]

He didn't just give him opinion. He said x is better than y. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Now, had he said he preferred x over y, or x suited his tastes more so than y then it's fine. He said the ADDIEMS were HORRIBLE. He said Apple should not even bother making headphones or IEMS anymore. He said his stock buds that came with a player sound better. He stated his opinion as if he was an audio expert and they were a fact, not his opinion. He called them horrible and said apple shouldn't bother making IEMS anymore.

He deserved everything he got. I'm sorry. He was not polite how he went about it, and did not deserve polite treatment in response.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif He didn't just give him opinion. He said x is better than y. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Now, had he said he preferred x over y, or x suited his tastes more so than y then it's fine. He said the ADDIEMS were HORRIBLE. He said Apple should not even bother making headphones or IEMS anymore. He said his stock buds that came with a player sound better. He stated his opinion as if he was an audio expert and they were a fact, not his opinion. He called them horrible and said apple shouldn't bother making IEMS anymore. He deserved everything he got. I'm sorry. He was not polite how he went about it, and did not deserve polite treatment in response.

I suppose we can agree to disagree on this. But just because he stated that X is better than Y doesn't make it a fact. It's simply a more forceful statement of his opinion. For it to be a fact, it has to be proven true. How can you prove that X is definitely better than Y in this case? Here we get back into the whole subjectivity issue of this hobby. If I were reading the OP's statements for the first time, I'd still want to read other information on both 'phones for myself in other places, here or on the internet. I'd audition both and make up my own mind. Just because he states that one is HORRIBLE doesn't mean I'd take that as gospel.

fact (fakt)

noun

1. a deed; act: now esp. in the sense of “a criminal deed” in the phrases after the fact and before the fact an accessory after the fact
2. a thing that has actually happened or that is really true; thing that has been or is
3. the state of things as they are; reality; actuality; truth fact as distinct from fancy
4. something said to have occurred or supposed to be true to check the accuracy of one's facts
5. Law an actual or alleged incident or condition, as distinguished from its legal consequence

 

[Zalithian]

I really don't see why you're arguing this unless you have nothing better to do. He came in here abrasively bashing a product and people took offense to it, now you seem to be defending the person who came in here and not the people who were simply defending what they consider to be a good product. You can prove it's true with a frequency response graph. Let's see which reproduces sound more accurately, the ADDIEMS or Sennheiser CX300's?

Either way, you're not right. You can't defend someone who was being abrasive in bashing a product and say it's not okay with the people who were doing the same thing.

All you need to do is admit that both sides were in the wrong, or neither because they both acted in the same fashion.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really don't see why you're arguing this unless you have nothing better to do. He came in here abrasively bashing a product and people took offense to it, now you seem to be defending the person who came in here and not the people who were simply defending what they consider to be a good product. You can prove it's true with a frequency response graph. Let's see which reproduces sound more accurately, the ADDIEMS or Sennheiser CX300's? Either way, you're not right. You can't defend someone who was being abrasive in bashing a product and say it's not okay with the people who were doing the same thing. All you need to do is admit that both sides were in the wrong, or neither because they both acted in the same fashion.

I would agree that there was fault on both sides. But, again, it still didn't warrant the cutting remarks about the OP's taste and how his is rendered invalid because of his preference for one product. I normally don't get involved in this type of defensive back and forth post but when I see attacks like that specifically on one person's taste, well I can't just keep quiet.

As for frequency graphs proving in a factual manner that the addiem's are superior I would ask why does a frequency graph prove fact? There can be errors in the measurements, and plotting process. It's not a foolproof guarantee that that is precisely what you'll hear. There has been much discussion about how frequency graphs often don't depict what people actually hear with that product.

Here's an article about the apple in ears that is not that favorable, and points to the graphs to show the shortcomings (now, I'm not saying that this makes this review indisputable fact). There are descriptions of the measurement equipment and processes. I know this looks different than the graph on Macrumors, but this is exactly how these things are inherently unreliable, or just a rough guide.

Apple iPod In-ear Headphones Review - In-Ear - Reviews of Headphones and Headphone Ratings - HeadphoneInfo.com

Here's a screenshot of macrumors comments about the published Apple graph.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would agree that there was fault on both sides. But, again, it still didn't warrant the cutting remarks about the OP's taste and how his is rendered invalid because of his preference for one product. I normally don't get involved in this type of defensive back and forth post but when I see attacks like that specifically on one person's taste, well I can't just keep quiet.

So you see nothing wrong with what the OP did? Please show me one comment that attacked the OP's taste. Or a post that was cutting that was not in direct response to a distasteful remark from the OP. Since you singled me out in your first post. Be kind enough to post what I first said to the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's an article about the apple in ears that is not that favorable, and points to the graphs to show the shortcomings (now, I'm not saying that this makes this review indisputable fact). There are descriptions of the measurement equipment and processes. I know this looks different than the graph on Macrumors, but this is exactly how these things are inherently unreliable, or just a rough guide. Apple iPod In-ear Headphones Review - In-Ear - Reviews of Headphones and Headphone Ratings - HeadphoneInfo.com

It looks different because that is the wrong product. That's the old single driver model.

If the MacRumors graph is of the new model. It is a very good flat frequency response just as it was described numerous times in this thread.

The chart is from Apple BTW.
http://images.apple.com/ipod/inearhe...rt20080909.jpg

Here is the CX300
http://www.headphone.com/technical/p...are+Headphones

Ideally I would have liked to use the same source for the data but Headroom doesn't have a chart for the Apple Dual Driver.

 

[jonathanjong]

Erm, might I quietly chime in to say that I never claimed that Art had bad taste in headphones. I had two main points:

1. Art often came off as stating facts about headphone, rather than opinions or preferences. He used rather vitriolic language (e.g., re: duping), which I felt were unjustified, not to mention (in my, and many others' opinions) inaccurate. (NB: Justification and accuracy are dissociable. We can hold true beliefs unjustifiably, and false beliefs justifiably.)

2. His forcefully state opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because of his favourable opinion of CX300. Now, this is not to say that CX300 is a bad headphone, as if there is an object fact about the matter. However, it is the case that most Head-Fiers don't consider CX300 a good headphone. Therefore, the odds are that new members looking for recommendations would be able to do better. Now, it's not wrong for Art to be different. Some people prefer CX300 over...Shure 530. More power to them. But they're the minority, so their opinions are not very helpful to most people. If their opinions are forcefully stated, there should be some comments to the contrary to balance things out.

As all people, I too am often inarticulate. I lack eloquence, lack clarity. And for that - for coming off too harsh, too vitriolic (ironically, the very crimes of which I accuse Art) - I apologize.

 

[s1m0]

IMO it takes some time to get accustomed to a new sound signature. When I got my altec lansing im716 I thought they were terrible compared to my old sonys ex71s. So maybe the OP should listen to the Apple IEM some more before returning them.