[Damnations Fury]

Looking to get my first audiofile level set of headphones which will be powered off an Asus Xonar STX which should have enough grunt to power most headphones I would have thought. As a side note to all this, open headphones won't be a problem.
 
Have done a large amount of research, but sadly being in the UK, actually finding somewhere with a decent range range of choice in stock (if you're not in London) to compare side by side is a little tricky. This is what is making me unsure about my decision as I haven't been able to try the pair of headphones I believe I will prefer the most.
 
Anyway, looking for a set of headphones for gaming 60% of the time, music 30% and film 10%. While I say gaming, it will only be a very small amount of the time for competitive fps, they will be used much more for first person RPG's such as Skyrim and first person shooters, but in single player. So 3D positioning and soundstage are hugely important, but from an immersive point of view, rather than competitive. So this has led me to leave headphones like the AD-700's/900's as I want to feel like I am there. I want a decent reproduciton of the situation in 3D, not be able to be able to hear someone on the other side of the map.
 
Music wise it's going to be mainly metal and rock, so take of that what you will. I don't think I can say much about film other than I want to be able to enjoy the 3D sound in dolby headphone.
 
So far I've head a range of headphones my favourites being the Q701's as I enjoyed the precision of the bass, the strong thump and the cleanity of the sound. They did sound nice and airy in dolby headphone test too. My gripe would be that they do lack on the imerssion of bass a little and I suspect that once I got to test them in games & music more this feeling would increase.
 
The other headphones I enjoyed where the Sennheiser HD650's. Again they had a nice clean sound with a decent thump when called upon and I generally enjoyed the sound signature, probably more so the the Q701's. My issue with these is that they maybe lacked a little bit of the required trebble for metal and in the dolby headphone test they did feel more compact than the Q701's by a fair margin, which could take me out the game.
 
The headphone I believe I will enjoy the most would be the Beyerdynamic DT990's. I am happy to pay the almost double price in the UK to get the 600's over the Pro's (around £130 for the pro's and £250 for the Premiums) if it is worth it. In truth I could push my budget up to £300+ if it is worth it. From what I have read these should offer somewhere around the best mid ground (albeit with high's that I might have to EQ down a little). They should have the strong clean bass when I want it, but supposedly have a little more open soundstage than the 650's. The problem is anywhere near me that do stock them are currently out of stock, so they would be a blind purchase.
 
So to sum it all up i'm looking for an immersive gaming headphone that handles rock & metal well. What are people's opinions on my thoughts? I guess as a side note, I guess the HE400's are a possibility too.

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

Looking to get my first audiofile level set of headphones which will be powered off an Asus Xonar STX which should have enough grunt to power most headphones I would have thought. 

I honestly really would have thought too, it's a great amp...but not nearly enough. I sold my DT990 600ohm, but wish I would have waited to get my Asgard before doing so because I think I only heard a taste of what the 990's could do. In any case the 990's just made me miss my Denon d2000's so I found a used pair of D5000's on the FS forum.  You brought up the 650 and Q701 though so maybe i'll be barking up the wrong tree with the denons here.
 
990's would probably fit you if you aren't picky about bass and impact, HE-400 has a lot more than that and Denons have the most.

 

[Eargasmo]

The Xonars will not power the 990 600ohm to its full potential.  there is a 32ohm version of the premium you may want to consider.
 
If you want to feel like you are there, you may want to look at a pure gaming headset like the Astro Gaming A40 headsets.  Razer and turtle beach also has some options.
 
You won't find audiophile grade headphones with true surround sound.  They are stereo by nature, so none will suit your gaming needs.  Some will provide great soundstage, but they will do so in stereo.  You maybe able to virtualize the surround sound, but that will be shy of true surround as far as directional audio.
 
Here on this forum, you will have a hard time squeezing out gaming headset recommendations.  I see these threads a lot on head-fi, and they all die a silent/painful death.
 
If you want true audiophile grade headphones, you will probably want to go with a lower ohm rated set of headphones considering you will be powering them with the xonar.  I've tried to drive my Beyer 990 Pros using a computer sound card.  Although they sound good, you are missing out on a lot of the sound without a true amp to power the cans.  And those are only graded at 250 Ohms.
 
You may want to try a sub 100Ohm rated set of cans like the Denon AHD2000 or the AKG K550.  Both are amazing cans with great soundstage, and both are drivable with the Xonar. Low ohm ratings do not mean low quality.  If you are insistent on high Ohm rating, you will need more power than the xonar provides to truly get the full experience.  But remember, even the AHD2000 and AKG K550 will gain from a true amp.  You will hear so much more depth and presence at the lower half of the audible spectrum, as the lower half is harder to drive.
 
Once you dive into the land of audiophilia, there is no turning back.  And your wallet will never forgive you for it .

 

[Damnations Fury]

Thanks for your help. I am aware the higher ohm doesn't mean better quality, more from checking around, the 600ohm version was rated as having a little less of the grating trebble than the other models.
 
Maybe what I was asking for was maybe put in a little bit too over the top way. Realistically i'm currently using Senheisser RS 130 wireless headphones, but have recently moved and now have the pc in a position where the headphone cable won't be running across the middle of my floor, so want to ditch wireless headphones and have a decent setup.
 
I'm pretty happy with dolby headphones for 3D production already in games, so am just looking for something with a good balance between 3d positioning (I was more than happy with the Q701's in that regard) and bass (I enjoyed the signature of the HD650's more in that regard). I'm not really looking feel like I am there as such, but was trying to make a distinction that I am not looking for a competitive pair of headphones where hearing the enemy's footsteps is the be all and end all. I just want something with decent positioning, but enjoyable at the same time. The Q701's would probably have been perfect if I hadn't enjoyed the darker signature of the 650's once i'd heard them later.
 
Mark

 

[RushNerd]

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You may want to try a sub 100Ohm rated set of cans like the Denon AHD2000 or the AKG K550.  Both are amazing cans with great soundstage, and both are drivable with the Xonar.

First thing I tried when I got my D5k's was amping from the card for a few hours. Not using the EQ they can get pretty loud, but add in lot of low end eq and forget about it. The denons really really need an amp to even challenge them, these things handle an incredible amount of power. 
 
But if you did the 990 I would suggest 32ohm too, one of the users here who has both the 32 and 600 version said the difference is not that huge and either would do.
 
Also don't do gaming headsets unless you have to, my razer carcharias are nice, but lack serious power and refinement.

 

[Eargasmo]

I own the K550 and they are far from dark, so i would stay clear of those if you prefer the dark side hehe.  I also own the HD650s, so i understand why you love their sound signature.  They are an amazing set of headphones when paired with the right amp/source.  Beyers are generally far from dark.  They have a V sound signature, so you will hear the lows, but the highs will be equally emphasized.  And I find my DT990Pros require a ton of power to get the darkness out of them, whereas the highs are driven easily.  I think that is why a lot of people think they are thin sounding.  
 
Have you tried the AHD2000 or AHD5000?  I know they are discontinued, but they can still be found on Amazon.  Price fluctuates like crazy, so I recommend you use camelcamelcamel.com to pick the right time to buy them.  You won't get the soundstage of a Q701 per se, but they will provide a decent soundstage.

 

[Damnations Fury]

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I own the K550 and they are far from dark, so i would stay clear of those if you prefer the dark side hehe.  I also own the HD650s, so i understand why you love their sound signature.  They are an amazing set of headphones when paired with the right amp/source.  Beyers are generally far from dark.  They have a V sound signature, so you will hear the lows, but the highs will be equally emphasized.  And I find my DT990Pros require a ton of power to get the darkness out of them, whereas the highs are driven easily.  I think that is why a lot of people think they are thin sounding.  
 
Have you tried the AHD2000 or AHD5000?  I know they are discontinued, but they can still be found on Amazon.  Price fluctuates like crazy, so I recommend you use camelcamelcamel.com to pick the right time to buy them.  You won't get the soundstage of a Q701 per se, but they will provide a decent soundstage.

Will take a further look towards the 2000's but the 5000's only appear to be in stock at one place in the UK for less than £400, which would probably be heading towards the top end of where i'd be happy going budget wise. Would there be any thoughts to improving the Q701 bass response with an Equalizer. I appreciate you can't really put it that far, but it's just a thought.
 
Also i'm afraid my testing may have skewed my opinion a little as the music source was just a Galaxy S3 phone with no amp, so I cannot be 100% sure on what these sound like amp'd. Lastly I suspect when listening to music, a reasonable amount of the time I will be running through an Onkyo 608 receiver, but for games it would be straight form the card due to dolby headphones.

 

[Damnations Fury]

Also I guess the other side of that is, was the HD650's as small as it sounded, or was it more related to the source?

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

Also I guess the other side of that is, was the HD650's as small as it sounded, or was it more related to the source?

When you are using headphones out of a phone that scale up to the highest of the high end headphone equipment, you are probably not hearing the whole picture.

 

[Damnations Fury]

Quote:

When you are using headphones out of a phone that scale up to the highest of the high end headphone equipment, you are probably not hearing the whole picture.

Yeah, though sadly when you're not offered an amp to test with, there's not much you can do.

 

[Eargasmo]

Yeah 650s are finicky to drive, and a phone definitely won't cut it.  I bet the 650s will sound okay connected to your onkyo receiver.  Although the xonar is the best sound card you can buy, it would prolly be inadequate(power-wise) for the Senn HD 650.  I believe the european galaxy phones have a wolfson dac, so that is a good source, but won't have the power to drive the cans properly.
 
It sounds like you like bassy sound and need a easy to drive audiophile grade set of cans with a broad soundstage.  The only ones that fit that bill, as far as I'm aware, is the AHD2000.  Great headphones.  And when you plug it into your onkyo receiver, it should scale beautifully for a richer fuller sound.

 

[stv014]

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it would prolly be inadequate(power-wise) for the Senn HD 650.

 
Unless you want to go deaf, it does have enough power, and for most people also for the DT990-600, for that matter.

 

[Eargasmo]

Quote:

 
Unless you want to go deaf, it does have enough power, and for most people also for the DT990-600, for that matter.

It's not the loudness to which we are referring.  It's the fullness of sound.  From my personal experience, my HD650s and Beyer 990s need a good amp to really bring out the lower half of the sound spectrum.  And since Damnation Fury likes the dark sound, he'd benefit greatly from a good amp when it comes to harder to drive cans.  Atleast that's my personal experience.  And with the added fullness, I tend to listen to music at lower volumes.

 

[stv014]

Quote:

It's not the loudness to which we are referring.  It's the fullness of sound.

 
More power = louder sound (which can also be perceived as "fuller" for reasons explained here, but it is still louder nevertheless). The maximum power output of an amplifier determines how loud the sound can become with acceptable levels of distortion. For sane listening habits, the built-in amplifier on the OP's sound card has enough power for the above mentioned two headphones. If you want to change the sound without making it louder, then you are really not referring to power. The possible options are: get headphones that suit your tastes in the first place (recommended), use equalization, or get a colored "audiophile" amplifier (basically a hardware EQ/effect with only one setting).

 

[Eargasmo]

Quote:

 
More power = louder sound (which can also be perceived as "fuller" for reasons explained here, but it is still louder nevertheless). The maximum power output of an amplifier determines how loud the sound can become with acceptable levels of distortion. For sane listening habits, the built-in amplifier on the OP's sound card has enough power for the above mentioned two headphones. If you want to change the sound without making it louder, then you are really not referring to power. The possible options are: get headphones that suit your tastes in the first place (recommended), use equalization, or get a colored "audiophile" amplifier (basically a hardware EQ/effect with only one setting).

So is it your opinion that an amp should in theory effect the low frequency and high frequency output equally on a headphone?  That the fullness is just a colorization effect of the amp?
 
I'm not discounting what you say.  I read a blog by the guy behind the O2 Amp recently, guess he goes by the name NwAvGuy.  It's a good read.  He says just what you say.  That transparent amps adhere more strongly to the definition of "fidelity", loyalty to the source material.  Mind you, this blog was in response to a negative review of the O2 Amp.
 
Isn't a heaphone electric and mechanical in nature.  Electric fields move the drivers that push the air that hit our ears and delivers another electric message to our brains.  That being said, the mechanical parts don't scale "transparently" across all freqs equally.  Not all headphones react to amps in the same way is my point.  We both maybe saying the same thing.  You may call it colorization, or eq/effect, but amps definitely change the sound signature of headphones.  And a "transparent" amp is trying its best to not change the sound signature, but that is almost an impossible task considering not all headphones will react to its "transparent" attempts to be "loyal" to the source material.  Because once you get past the electronics, you still deal with the mechanics of the headphones, not omitting the mechanical differences of our ears.  And amps seemed to generally effect the low-end of the freq range more than the high-end.  Or atleast our perception is more greatly effected with lower freqs.
 
Which brings me back to my original point, if you like dark sound, a good amp will more often than not help bring that out of your headphones.