[chesebert]

vista sucks..I can't run half the programs I have.

Actually I am about to take the offer from IBM to 'downgrade' my Vista to XP because of large number of corp buyers found vista doesn't work with their software; I am in that group.

 

[LarryVale]

aha...another man that has found the water from the Almighty river has bugs.

Seemed I was in the minority here. I didn't scream "YES MASTER, MORE PAIN MASTER! I know it's good for me!"

That business of looking like a fundamentalist, all superior, telling me I am faulty for not seeing the error of my ways, kinda got my goat.

 

[kugino]

this is the first thread i've ever read where people actually like vista! maybe you're closet users...b/c most of the stuff i read on the 'net is asking for M$ to discontinue vista. but methinks the real reason there are people here who like vista is you haven't seen that there are other OSs out there...real ones. that actually work. well.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is the first thread i've ever read where people actually like vista! maybe you're closet users...b/c most of the stuff i read on the 'net is asking for M$ to discontinue vista. but methinks the real reason there are people here who like vista is you haven't seen that there are other OSs out there...real ones. that actually work. well.

There's endless positive raves for Vista from PC savvy people on the net. You have to stop looking for the negative and visit a few PC forums. Superfetch is simply stunning and no other OS can come close to touching MS's implementation at this point. The dirty little secret is getting over the hardware hump with a good setup.

Vista is an os that ACTUALLY works. No other OS's works well for games. Linux hardly works for anything really worthy (besides servers or basic use), and OSX is great to use and all, but no games and you're stuck with wimpy hardware for the huge price tag.

 

[LarryVale]

I haven't seen a damage control effort like this thread since Karl Rove ran the White House.

Shoot that dissenter!!

I felt like I was dodging rubber bullets at one point.

 

[brrritish!]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryVale /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't seen a damage control effort like this thread since Karl Rove ran the White House. Shoot that dissenter!! I felt like I was dodging rubber bullets at one point.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Lighten up, guys - you're talking about computers! There could be far worse things in your lives. There are places in this world [won't say the name, as it would be POLITICAL] where electricity is on for only a couple of hours every other day, and food/water are very scarce. Keep some perspective.

Laz

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

I am a bit frustrated with a few things, biggest one being the fact that Junipers VPN client wont work on VIsta and thats the only way I can connect to my workplace.

but overall I find Vista to be quite stable and there are a couple of neat features. But, I got it pre installed on my new Dell laptop, hence my perspective is different. If I had to buy it for $$$, I dont think I wouldve bothered.

 

[ThomasJB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's endless positive raves for Vista from PC savvy people on the net. You have to stop looking for the negative and visit a few PC forums. Superfetch is simply stunning and no other OS can come close to touching MS's implementation at this point. The dirty little secret is getting over the hardware hump with a good setup. Vista is an os that ACTUALLY works. No other OS's works well for games. Linux hardly works for anything really worthy (besides servers or basic use), and OSX is great to use and all, but no games and you're stuck with wimpy hardware for the huge price tag.

I have to disagree with this statement. I'll admit that I have not used Vista for any length of time but, while it may or may not run well depending on your hardware, I know many people who have had major issues with it.
Also, it is completely incorrect that "no other OS can come close to touching MS's implementation at this point" or that "Linux hardly works for anything really worthy (besides servers or basic use)". I have used Linux since 2003 and it has been my primary OS since 2005. It's true that it occasionally has driver issues, but this is not nearly as bad as it once was. I have not encountered a single system that had major hardware compatibility problems in the last two years, including laptops. I'm aware that that can still be a problem, but then Vista has driver issues too.

As for the idea that "Linux hardly works for anything really worthy," if all you do is play the latest games as soon as they come out, then Linux may not be for you. However, Linux is excellent for casual gaming. There are many great native Linux games (e. g. Sauerbraten, just to name one), and many Windows games can be run via Wine, Crossover, Cedega, etc. In fact, except for a few games, I can't think of anything that you can't do in Linux either natively or with something like Wine (with the possible exception of some things involving heavy DRM, which is usually possible anyway, just illegal). Plus, it's free.

The only areas in which Linux remains weak are in hardcore gaming (which the vast majority of people don't use) and some proprietary hardware support (which is the fault of the hardware manufacturers).

I'm not actually a Linux zealot, it just annoys me to see people dismissing it without really knowing anything about it.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJB /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to disagree with this statement. I'll admit that I have not used Vista for any length of time but, while it may or may not run well depending on your hardware, I know many people who have had major issues with it. Also, it is completely incorrect that "no other OS can come close to touching MS's implementation at this point" or that "Linux hardly works for anything really worthy (besides servers or basic use)". I have used Linux since 2003 and it has been my primary OS since 2005. It's true that it occasionally has driver issues, but this is not nearly as bad as it once was. I have not encountered a single system that had major hardware compatibility problems in the last two years, including laptops. I'm aware that that can still be a problem, but then Vista has driver issues too. As for the idea that "Linux hardly works for anything really worthy," if all you do is play the latest games as soon as they come out, then Linux may not be for you. However, Linux is excellent for casual gaming. There are many great native Linux games (e. g. Sauerbraten, just to name one), and many Windows games can be run via Wine, Crossover, Cedega, etc. In fact, except for a few games, I can't think of anything that you can't do in Linux either natively or with something like Wine (with the possible exception of some things involving heavy DRM, which is usually possible anyway, just illegal). Plus, it's free. The only areas in which Linux remains weak are in hardcore gaming (which the vast majority of people don't use) and some proprietary hardware support (which is the fault of the hardware manufacturers). I'm not actually a Linux zealot, it just annoys me to see people dismissing it without really knowing anything about it.

Wine and Cedega are a friggin joke for Linux. Some games you can get to load and work, but they stutter, crash, and have limited sound processing. Hell, I can't even get all my mouse buttons to work in Linux. Linux is the only operating system that I can change my mouse settings and crash the entire graphical system (X11). I got so sick of X11 crashing my visual interface I ended up realizing Linux still has a lot of room to improve.

Occasional driver issues is a massive understatement. Minimal hardware problems, I couldn't get any Distro to install correctly with my motherboard's JMicron SATA to IDE Chipset without doing a few backflips. After awhile I gave up and used my old mobo/cpu combo which worked great. Have they fixed it yet, I don't know. It screwed me over on Fedora Gentoo and OpenSuSE.

Not to mention trying to game and voice chat with Ventrilo or Teamspeak is a practice in severe headaches. Sure at times I don't mind fiddling for hours on end to figure out some little problem that is eating at my insides, but it gets old.

Linux has some neato desktop games. But I want Crysis, Bioshock, Psychonaughts, TF2, Portal, FEAR. I don't want some penguin sliding down a ski run. I played AssaultCube too. It's a 3d game with guns, but it's simply terrible to play for more than 10 minutes. The netcode is as bad as I've ever seen for online play.

Vista is really a good OS. Not without its faults, but still impressive. I was the king of dismissing Vista and ripping into it. I spent a day setting up my brother's new computer with Vista Home Premium. I was so impressed with Vista I ordered it the same week. I haven't looked back since.

 

[Wodgy]

Rather than just complaining, I would encourage the original poster to take his money elsewhere. Complaining online is good, it helps blow off steam and convey word-of-mouth, but like any business, Microsoft ultimately only responds to customer behavior. Because of their large corporate installed base and coercive bundling agreements with system vendors, they are isolated to a certain degree from consumer behavior, but eventually if enough people start to vote with their feet, improvements will be made.

It's silly to say the original poster is wrong for being dissatisfied. You may not agree with his reasons, but the fact that he's dissatisfied by his experiences is real. And he's not alone; word of mouth on Vista is the worst I've ever heard for any OS. Although a portion of it is unfair, not all of it is. The "out of kernel memory" error while copying large numbers of files is inexcusable, as is the network throttling while playing music. It should not have been released with those issues, and the fact that it was suggests that management was driven by factors other than quality or customer satisfaction in choosing a release date.

Anyway, if you are dissatisfied, alternatives exist. OS X is now a real alternative to Windows, with several killer apps, and in some cases, categories of applications (e.g. outliners; I live in outliners) and forms of workflow (e.g. Automator, folder actions), that do not have competitive equivalents for Windows. Leopard is genuinely nice. Linux may be an alternative for some people. If you need to game, buy a console.

Some of us remember what the computer industry looked like 15 years ago, when there really was a healthy amount of competition, and that spirit generated some great apps (Lotus Agenda, Ecco, MORE, GrandView, DeluxePaint, etc.) that really were nice. Let's get back there. Vote with your feet. You do not have to put up with Vista if you do not want to. You either choose to, or you don't. If you don't like the products, stop giving MS your money.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's silly to say the original poster is wrong for being dissatisfied. You may not agree with his reasons, but the fact that he's dissatisfied by his experiences is real. And he's not alone; word of mouth on Vista is the worst I've ever heard for any OS. Although a portion of it is unfair, not all of it is. Sometimes a turd really is a turd.

Windows 95, 98, ME, XP, all have be crucified when first released. Simply put Microsoft got XP to work as good as it had been since 3.1 . Anything new is going to get insane amounts of negative press.

Reeming Vista, as with every new MSoft OS since the mid 90's, is fashionable.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Windows 95, 98, ME, XP, all have be crucified when first released. Simply put Microsoft got XP to work as good as it had been since 3.1 . Anything new is going to get insane amounts of negative press. Reeming Vista, as with every new MSoft OS since the mid 90's, is fashionable.

I'm not going to get involved in some kind of argument, but you're looking at history through rose-tinted glasses if you think the word of mouth on Vista is equivalent to the word of mouth on older MS releases (except for Windows ME). It's an order of magnitude worse this time.

There are always whiners, I agree with you, but there are two major differences this time around.

First, a lot of the blowback is being driven by real, rather than imagined problems this time. It's not all driver issues. The file copying kernel memory leak for instance is ludicrous in a modern development environment and suggests real, fundamental defects in their development and testing methodologies.

Second, I'm hearing negative word of mouth from ordinary people this time. Nerds always argue about stuff, get into camps, either defending or attacking companies -- it's their version of cheering for a sports team. In contrast, when ordinary people are complaining about an OS, it's a sign that something more significant is wrong. That's what I mean when I say the word of mouth is the worst I've ever heard for an OS. Even with Windows ME, I wasn't hearing many complaints from ordinary people. Now it's not just techies complaining. I used to run a small business in high school, and no matter how much I spent to advertise, word of mouth was much more effective at getting customers. In the same way, no amount of advertising claiming "the WOW is now" will counteract genuine, grassroots negative word of mouth among non-nerds. People are frustrated, and telling them they're stupid or ignorant for being frustrated is just blaming the user.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not going to get involved in some kind of argument, but you're looking at history through rose-tinted glasses if you think the word of mouth on Vista is equivalent to the word of mouth on older MS releases (except for Windows ME). It's an order of magnitude worse this time. There are always whiners, I agree with you, but there are two major differences this time around. First, a lot of the blowback is being driven by real, rather than imagined problems this time. It's not all driver issues. The file copying kernel memory leak for instance is ludicrous in a modern development environment and suggests real, fundamental defects in their development and testing methodologies. Second, I'm hearing negative word of mouth from ordinary people this time. Nerds always argue about stuff, get into camps, either defending or attacking companies -- it's their version of cheering for a sports team. In contrast, when ordinary people are complaining about an OS, it's a sign that something more significant is wrong. That's what I mean when I say the word of mouth is the worst I've ever heard for an OS. Even with Windows ME, I wasn't hearing many complaints from ordinary people. Now it's not just techies complaining. I used to run a small business in high school, and no matter how much I spent to advertise, word of mouth was much more effective at getting customers. In the same way, no amount of advertising claiming "the WOW is now" will counteract genuine, grassroots negative word of mouth among non-nerds. People are frustrated, and telling them they're stupid or ignorant for being frustrated is just blaming the user.

Kernel Memory leak whatever I haven't read much about, but I haven't heard it in the endless negative comments about Vista anyhow.

The rest sounds like a pile of emotionally held jumbo to me. The problem with Vista comes down to not having the proper specs to run it. People running out and buying Celeron D's with 512mb of ram and onboard Intel video graphics with Vista is a crying shame. Vista is made for a strong system, no less than 2gb of RAM, dual core CPU's, a fast hard drive, and a good week or two for Superfetch to show it's true colors. Superfetch is simply amazing, but without 2gb of ram and a beefy HD it's pretty much a waste.

 

[LarryVale]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rather than just complaining, I would encourage the original poster to take his money elsewhere. Complaining online is good, it helps blow off steam and convey word-of-mouth, but like any business, Microsoft ultimately only responds to customer behavior. Because of their large corporate installed base and coercive bundling agreements with system vendors, they are isolated to a certain degree from consumer behavior, but eventually if enough people start to vote with their feet, improvements will be made. It's silly to say the original poster is wrong for being dissatisfied. You may not agree with his reasons, but the fact that he's dissatisfied by his experiences is real. And he's not alone; word of mouth on Vista is the worst I've ever heard for any OS. Although a portion of it is unfair, not all of it is. The "out of kernel memory" error while copying large numbers of files is inexcusable, as is the network throttling while playing music. It should not have been released with those issues, and the fact that it was suggests that management was driven by factors other than quality or customer satisfaction in choosing a release date. Anyway, if you are dissatisfied, alternatives exist. OS X is now a real alternative to Windows, with several killer apps, and in some cases, categories of applications (e.g. outliners; I live in outliners) and forms of workflow (e.g. Automator, folder actions), that do not have competitive equivalents for Windows. Leopard is genuinely nice. Linux may be an alternative for some people. If you need to game, buy a console. Some of us remember what the computer industry looked like 15 years ago, when there really was a healthy amount of competition, and that spirit generated some great apps (Lotus Agenda, Ecco, MORE, GrandView, DeluxePaint, etc.) that really were nice. Let's get back there. Vote with your feet. You do not have to put up with Vista if you do not want to. You either choose to, or you don't. If you don't like the products, stop giving MS your money.

I think I explained the original reason for my post. I will go through at least parts of that and susequent posts.

1. I had a crash on my laptop after using FAST to back up the system a few days before. I was in Cape Town South Africa at the time. All I could locate was an XP Home recovery disc as thats what the machine came with. I upgraded to XP Pro subsequently but left that in KC. This was shortly after Vista came out. I was told the XP home I installed was the problem since the new OS could not see the FAST store as a valid file. When I went to the local dealers all they had was Vista of one variety or the other on the shelf. I was told all of them were instructed by MS to send their unopened XP retail copies back and had no upgrade versions available. I finally went to the only system builder that had a retail front and bought a new XP pro disc. The fact that no normal dealer had any XP pros of any sort few weeks after release was an example of monopolistic behavior IMO. In any case finally installed the new SN and installation disc and still the FAST stores were unreadable. Not pleasant.

2. A few months thereafter I bought a new laptop with Vista home preinstalled. My hardware guy screwed up my old one. It is slower than XP in spite of the fact that I doubled the installed memory that came with it. It is not a OS that does even simple browsing...ok power browsing, as well as XP pro does. It was "billed" as an improvement over XP. I have programs that will only run under XP and I was not going to suddenly switch OS's in midstream so to speak. I had upgraded hardware and downgraded performance. I have no interest in games whatsoever. Multimedia toys, transparent windows and the like are pretty things but have no use to me. They seem to be MS's attempt to cpture more of that market and make the more "usual" customer suffer the consequences. I'm an audio/video geek, high definition stuff. I have used MS programs since 1985 at my biz and have been using computers at home since 95 when windows 95 came out. I have 4 systems in my home that I use for AV and mutiple systems at work. Only one uses Linix. I may not be a "savvy computer user" I'm simply a user that wants mail, EAC, multiple software and hardware items to simply work as I would expect them to. I feel like a beta tester for MS.

Bringing my experiences up was not to have suggested to me that I take my money elsewhere. I am more than aware how the system works. I was objecting to the misrepresentation of the product and manipulation of the marketplace when MS has the defacto operating system. To ensure they keep dominance and users they have been nearly giving away Vista to computer makers and were restricting the liscencing and availability of the product they decided to sunset in order to suck more money out of the market. IMHO of course

All the power users I know won't touch Vista on their systems.

To challenge, to think rather than to blindly accept was the intent.

To encourage others to do the same because they may bring up something interesting or another point of view and challenge my view is enjoyable.

"If you don't like it, spend your money elsewhere" doesn't improve the product or the situation.

Ok, Bill, I love you, please fix this? Better?