[bigshot]

Most electronic components give realistic sound right out of the box. The problems with unreal sound come in with the speakers, the way the speakers react with the room, and equalization. That's the end to focus on to get realistic sound, not struggling to discern minute differences in CD players or imagining non-existent differences in wires.

See ya
Steve

 

[gotchaforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are plenty of people who claim to have seen UFOs and ghosts even though they aren't UFO or paranormal researchers. See ya Steve

Yes but i dont think people paid $1000 to see a UFO so therefore cable differences are for real!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchaforce /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes but i dont think people paid $1000 to see a UFO so therefore cable differences are for real!

So they are real, just because they pay $1000.00, I think that there has to be a better reason...

Convince me than a Rolex, gives you a better time than any cheap quartz watch...evnewhile it cost 60 times more...

If you get to pay 1000.00 to see a UFO, you will see a whole crew of them in all colors, same as with cables, after spending 1000.00 for sure you have to hear the differences, real or not...

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif So they are real, just because they pay $1000.00, I think that there has to be a better reason... Convince me than a Rolex, gives you a better time than any cheap quartz watch...evnewhile it cost 60 times more... If you get to pay 1000.00 to see a UFO, you will see a whole crew of them in all colors, same as with cables, after spending 1000.00 for sure you have to hear the differences, real or not...

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

[peelax]

Quote:

Sitting on a couch with headphones on is nothing like wine tasting, and sound is nothing like wine. Wine is an organic product that varies in a hundred different ways from batch to batch. It requires a keen sense and experience to discern all of the subtleties. While music itself has subtleties that require keen senses and experience to discern, sound reproduction is a mechanical process that is very straightforward and consistent. If people think putting on headphones is like wine tasting, they are listening to the wrong thing. They should be listening to the music, not the equipment.

Definitely. Audio equipment is more like the wine glass, you definitely want a reasonable one if you have good wine... I would say the technology for synthesising chemicals is not as far advanced as that of reproducing sound!

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe Randi should add wine into $1m list too because only claims for now too...some godly wine tester should prove it lol (double sarcasm)

I normally just lurk on these cable discussions, and I'm not going to argue one way or the other, but this claim is pretty absurd. The entire thing about wine testing is that they DO prove it. Wine snobs are, even by the community, encouraged to do blind testing. Hell, if a wine connoisseur claims to be able to taste a difference, but can't distinguish it from a blind test, he's laughed at by the community - ridiculed because he couldn't put his money where his mouth is (in fact, read "Taste" by Roald Dahl for a great example of this, not so much for proof, just that it's a great short story).

This same thing is what puzzles me about the audio community. It differs so much from other equally "intangible" things such as perfume and wine in that there's no blind testing involved. I would like to see a blind test performed not because I want proof that cables don't make a difference or other such claim. I want to see a blind test just because I want to see if the "golden ears" have the ability to distinguish between such minute details. I can't distinguish nearly as much as most "audiophiles" (though possibly more than the average Joe, otherwise I wouldn't be so interested in audio as to go on a forum about it), and I do know that there are a great number of people who can hear better than me... that being said, I doubt that people can distinguish between components to the extent that they claim. I'm not saying that there is/isn't a difference or that it definitely can't be heard; I just think alot of people talk solely to boost their ego (not pointing out anyone in particular, I'm just saying in general).

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif I normally just lurk on these cable discussions, and I'm not going to argue one way or the other, but this claim is pretty absurd. The entire thing about wine testing is that they DO prove it. Wine snobs are, even by the community, encouraged to do blind testing. Hell, if a wine connoisseur claims to be able to taste a difference, but can't distinguish it from a blind test, he's laughed at by the community - ridiculed because he couldn't put his money where his mouth is (in fact, read "Taste" by Roald Dahl for a great example of this, not so much for proof, just that it's a great short story). This same thing is what puzzles me about the audio community. It differs so much from other equally "intangible" things such as perfume and wine in that there's no blind testing involved. I would like to see a blind test performed not because I want proof that cables don't make a difference or other such claim. I want to see a blind test just because I want to see if the "golden ears" have the ability to distinguish between such minute details. I can't distinguish nearly as much as most "audiophiles" (though possibly more than the average Joe, otherwise I wouldn't be so interested in audio as to go on a forum about it), and I do know that there are a great number of people who can hear better than me... that being said, I doubt that people can distinguish between components to the extent that they claim. I'm not saying that there is/isn't a difference or that it definitely can't be heard; I just think alot of people talk solely to boost their ego (not pointing out anyone in particular, I'm just saying in general).

I can tell you with no remorse at all, that most of the people here, that claim to hear this or that, in the majority of the cases, are just bluffing (with maybe just a few exceptions) ...

I stopped reading reviews long time ago, and stop believing audiophiles long time ago, and only trust a few selected members here, that BTW never claimed to be golden ears by any means, just normal people like you and me...and of course my ears...period...

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i'm not sure if this link has been posted, but it is interesting and supports, i believe, the idea that cables do sound different and even have certain definable attributes. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...1-12-2000.html

it doesn't look like anyone has read this, but it is very interesting and should appeal to people on both sides of the issue, although it definitely favors the argument that cables do sound different and that their qualities in general can only be perceived over time and not with quick A/B switches.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can tell you with no remorse at all, that most of the people here, that claim to hear this or that, in the majority of the cases, are just bluffing (with maybe just a few exceptions) ... I stopped reading reviews long time ago, and stop believing audiophiles long time ago, and only trust a few selected members here, that BTW never claimed to be golden ears by any means, just normal people like you and me...and of course my ears...period...

You mean you don't read 6moons?

 

[jules650]

If you look carefully at the review that started this, you'll find that Dave Clark uses this treatment. How can someone possibly believe that writing on stuff with a marker pen improves sound quality?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I stopped reading reviews long time ago, and stop believing audiophiles long time ago, and only trust a few selected members here, that BTW never claimed to be golden ears by any means, just normal people like you and me...and of course my ears...period...

Agreed. There is a lot of pseudoscience in the audiophile world and I can't believe how much blind faith some people have in audio products.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif it doesn't look like anyone has read this, but it is very interesting and should appeal to people on both sides of the issue, although it definitely favors the argument that cables do sound different and that their qualities in general can only be perceived over time and not with quick A/B switches.

Yes yes, I've heard the argument that cables only sound different over time. I don't buy it, and it's solely because I hear people all the time say that they've heard HUGE increases in sound, UNBELIEVABLY apparent from the MOMENT they put it into their systems. In fact, now that I think about it, the only time that I hear people say they only hear a difference over time is in regards to burn-in, which is conveniently taken care of by having the cables pre-burned it. Hell, that'd be another interesting test, "burned-in" cables vs "fresh" cables. The list goes on; I think there's a large amount of information to be gained from blind testing, and it's sad that so many people are so averse to it.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Hmm, can we at least agree that there is an audible difference between using cheap electrical wire as speaker cable and higher gauge, well-insulated ones like Monster? I think it would do a lot for this debate if we can at least find some common ground to start with.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif I(in fact, read "Taste" by Roald Dahl for a great example of this, not so much for proof, just that it's a great short story).

Ah! Reminds me of Matilda, the only book by Dahl I've read so far, nice one. Will look this one up.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

I, for one, did hear an audible difference between the stock HD650 cable and some after-market ones at a mini-meet (an Equinox, I think). I'm quite sure that I can pick out the two in blind tests.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mean you don't read 6moons?

One of those precisely, was the one who started the fire in my mind...if you want to know more PM me, as public I can't, OK?