[cantsleep]

unless its omega or orpheus, i think ill be better off with dynamics

 

[Nuggets83]

Yes, I have heard the HD800. No doubt, the cans are very good. The mechanic fit on the head is a little bit extraordinary. I dislike this fitting with the big can ring and the tiny contact surface.
The sound quality is better on the electrostatics. I can't describe it exactly. It are nuances in the highs. The SR Lamdba Pro seems to be a little bit more transparent, other than the SR Lambda.
The HD800 and the SR Lambda Pro are not directly comparable, because I use the ED-1 for the perfect diffuse field correction for non dummy head recordings.
So, for my taste the chain ED-1, SRM-T1, SR Lambda Pro reproduce that, what I searched over a long period of time.
 
Like said before, if one takes all parameters, it is likely to end up with a mid to high priced, excellent dynamic one like the DT 880 Pro or HD800.
It's always a question, what one is ready to do for it.

 

[n3rdling]

HD800 isn't on par with a Lambda in resolution, let alone SR009.

 

[Anaxilus]

I think I get what you are saying but from the rigs I've heard many e-stats are still behind the HD800 in pure resolution so I don't think the technology of stats is inherently better by today's standards as dynamics have met and even exceeded some of those designs.   I know many prefer the ethereal sound of stats but sometimes it sounds wrong to me as well.  Lacking that viceral 'presence' you find in real instruments.  Many also have issues finding a proper tonal balance on the HD800 which is the most frequent complaint IME.  Btw, if you take the dust covers off the HD800 you get that extra level of transparency as well.  As an aside, after hearing the HE60 for the first time this weekend I was surprised how similar the voicing was to a stock HD800.  Senn seems to have a targeted sound though I guess the Orpheus is more romantic?  

 

[sachu]

i've toyed with the stats a few times now..have owned a coupleof them, listened to a couple extensively. Have always gone back to orthos.
 
The only stat that i liked a whole lot and could see myself enjoying on a daily basis was the O2mk1.  All others were meh (with the exception of esp950).

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

HD800 isn't on par with a Lambda in resolution, let alone SR009.

Give me track and tell me what the Hd800 can't render.  

 

[n3rdling]

 
Quote:

I think I get what you are saying but from the rigs I've heard many e-stats are still behind the HD800 in pure resolution so I don't think the technology of stats is inherently better by today's standards as dynamics have met and even exceeded some of those designs.   I know many prefer the ethereal sound of stats but sometimes it sounds wrong to me as well.  Lacking that viceral 'presence' you find in real instruments.  Many also have issues finding a proper tonal balance on the HD800 which is the most frequent complaint IME.  Btw, if you take the dust covers off the HD800 you get that extra level of transparency as well.  As an aside, after hearing the HE60 for the first time this weekend I was surprised how similar the voicing was to a stock HD800.  Senn seems to have a targeted sound though I guess the Orpheus is more romantic?  

I think Senn has a lot of variation in the sound of thier headphones.  HE90 doesn't sound like HD800.  As for the HE60 you heard, that was modded by headphile with a wooden enclosure and different grill.  I'm also not sure if the o rings on that set are still in tact, I didn't look but Jon L probably knows.


Quote:

Give me track and tell me what the Hd800 can't render.  

It's in almost every track.  There isn't going to be a missing instrument or something obvious like that - at these levels we're talking about the lowest level of details.  The HD800 can't portray things like the general size of the recording space.  Close your eyes and talk out loud in rooms of different sizes and you'll be able to get an idea of the size of the room you're standing in to see what I'm talking about.  The HD800 just sounds like grain up there which is why I liked the mod you guys did to your sets.  They also don't match the electrostats in portraying things like resolution in percussion shimmer and hearing the actual bow rubbing up against the strings of a cello in addition to the sound of the cello instead of just the sound of the cello.  I didn't realize this stuff until I starting listening to electrostats exclusively for a few months.
 
The HD800 also can't render imaging accurately but that's an intended function of the design rather than a limitation of the driver.
 
Spritzer has taken some electrostats to the Icelandic Senn dealer and the results kinda spoke for themselves.

 

[arnaud]

I haven't listened to the HD800 for a while, and never properly amped like you probably did anaxilus. However, one example is the shimmer of cymbals decay which feels an order of magnitude better on my (poorly amped) 009 vs. what I reckon of the HD800. We're probably seeing detail in different place...

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

It's in almost every track.  There isn't going to be a missing instrument or something obvious like that - at these levels we're talking about the lowest level of details.  The HD800 can't portray things like the general size of the recording space.  Close your eyes and talk out loud in rooms of different sizes and you'll be able to get an idea of the size of the room you're standing in to see what I'm talking about.
 
This is true, the HD800 does play by it's own rules here but I've never been strict on SS accuracy as long as things are neither above, below or behind me.  I'm usually more of an intimate SS guy which people might find odd since I own a HD800.  For accuracy I do tend to rely on my UERM in that regard.
 
The HD800 just sounds like grain up there which is why I liked the mod you guys did to your sets.  
 
Thx.
 
They also don't match the electrostats in portraying things like resolution in percussion shimmer and hearing the actual bow rubbing up against the strings of a cello in addition to the sound of the cello instead of just the sound of the cello.  I didn't realize this stuff until I starting listening to electrostats exclusively for a few months.
 
That's interesting because those are things I do listen for specifically.  Percussion shimmer I presume you mean skin resonances on strikes and not referring to the cymbals in the kit (something the LCD2 fails at as well as many stats wrt tonal accuracy).  I'm also pretty keen on string textures and rendering that rosin off the bow sound too.  I'll have to ninja purrin's 009 and stat amp one day as my ESP950 is quite a ways off from matching the HD800 on those fronts.  I'll let you know how wrong I am when I get the chance.  

  I know his CSDs measure the 800 and the stats pretty similarly in the waterfalls though you can only really count them from 1khz up.  I do suspect you to be correct if we could get proper measurements down to 10-20hz.  
 
The HD800 also can't render imaging accurately but that's an intended function of the design rather than a limitation of the driver.
 
Agreed.
 
Spritzer has taken some electrostats to the Icelandic Senn dealer and the results kinda spoke for themselves.
 
Well, I've met Senn reps and dealers that have no idea how to set their phones up properly so no surprise there.  Me and purrin actually had to show a couple how the HD800 should be demo'd/heard at a meet.  People were leaving the Senn booth to come listen to our setups.  I still think the 009 has just a few issues that bother me but it is one of the best headphones ever made for sure.  There are aspects I'd love to take from both and one or two from the LCD to mash up into a perfect phone for my ears.  Till then.....

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I haven't listened to the HD800 for a while, and never properly amped like you probably did anaxilus. However, one example is the shimmer of cymbals decay which feels an order of magnitude better on my (poorly amped) 009 vs. what I reckon of the HD800. We're probably seeing detail in different place...

Most likely.  People using different metrics and parameters for their preferences.  But I like the discourse we are having here as everywhere else people are just whining about FR preferences which I find mundane by comparison.  If all people care about is FR balance there are plenty of cheap alternatives that will get the job done right.
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Along comes Eddie Current and Woo Audio and boy does the thing start to sing.  Really impeccable technicalities for a dynamic driver even surpassing the LCD2 and HE6 in many ways to my ear.  Figure in the benefits of a good tube amp and the ability to alter tonality through rolling and my logic started shifting towards the HD800.  The big caveat was having to dial in the HD800s synergy w/ the right amp setup.  I wasn't prepared to concede that loss in versatility at the time but in the end felt it was an acceptable compromise for the benefits gained.  That was the first clear, uncompromised upgrade beyond my ESP950 and T50RP I felt was worth the cash layout.  Especially considering it was not much more than an LCD2 for me.  If I had to pay close to $2k for the HD800 alone that probably would have been a different conversation.  So in the end I feel I've got a great headphone and amp synergy that can be dialed in to about 98% of what I want w/o any major offenses for less than $2.5k.  Not too bad.  
 
So did I go back to dynamics?  I guess you can say that.  I'd go so far as to say Sennheiser won me back as a brand too.  They even updated with the 558 and 598.  I'll be curious to hear the HD700 in the next 3-4 months and see where they take that.  ;P  
 
I still got my ortho and stat here though.  Not done w/ them yet, but at least I got some great sound that fulfills me and keeps me up late while I tinker and tweak.
 
Edit - I'll be open to the 009 adding that DD punch and impact and possibly surpassing the inner detail and DR of my HD800 setup but until one makes it onto the continent to audition it might as well be a unicorn to me.  An expensive unicorn.  A unicorn that's not a speaker system.  =P

This is similar to my experience in that I realized how good the HD800s were only when I acquired a decent setup to drive them. No other dynamic scales as well, so other headphones plateaued early while the HD800s kept getting better and better. Now, they're easily my favourite headphones.
 
The problem is the 800s can sound downright crappy with lower end gear. Even some great setups have subtle flaws that the Senns can make unbearable in the long run by exposing clearly. It's the price you pay for exceptional transparency/clarity (and a slightly flawed tonal balance I admit). There was a time when the HD650 and orthos sounded better to me than the HD800s, but now they're not even close.
 

 

[arnaud]

 
Quote:

... everywhere else people are just whining about FR preferences which I find mundane by comparison.  If all people care about is FR balance there are plenty of cheap alternatives that will get the job done right.

That's right, it's not all abouts FRFs...  ... there are CSDs too !
 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

That's right, it's not all abouts FRFs...  ... there are CSDs too !

 
And then some.  

  
 
@nerdling
 
Did I have the 800 set up on the S7 when you were listening?  I forget if the Bifrost was feeding it using my QA350 via coax when you listened.  If the Bifrost was on top of the S7 at the time then that would have been the case.  I should have put them on the BA via PWD for ya.  I'm sure the result would have been the same in the end to your ears 

 but definitely would give you better SS and imaging accuracy compared to the S7/Bifrost combo.  Did you get a chance to hear Donald's setup?
 
 

 

[n3rdling]

Ya it was hooked up to the S7 since I didn't get a chance to listen to that combo at the Venice meet.  I didn't listen to Donald's setup this time but have heard it on two separate occassions, though admittedly not with the HD800.  With the stock HD800, I find it sounds much better on OTL setups...I can't recall if Donald's amp is OTL or not, but I know the output impedance is ~8/120 Ohm so I'd probably like it a lot with the HD800.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Ya it was hooked up to the S7 since I didn't get a chance to listen to that combo at the Venice meet.  I didn't listen to Donald's setup this time but have heard it on two separate occassions, though admittedly not with the HD800.  With the stock HD800, I find it sounds much better on OTL setups...I can't recall if Donald's amp is OTL or not, but I know the output impedance is ~8/120 Ohm so I'd probably like it a lot with the HD800.

It is not OTL.  His current setup w/ the low gain switch puts it at 2/8 respectively.  Not sure if that changed.  Apparently will play nice w/ IEMs.  Would have loved to hear that amp w/ my UERM, might have been damn near spot on for natural and accurate sound.  
 
The S7 tubes were more technical and analytical this time around and were not close to the lushness of the Venice meet.  Donald's amp would have been better on both accounts w/ the 800.