Anyone else tired of 'typical' headphone recommendation requests ?
Apr 30, 2009 at 9:53 PM Post #121 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No need to apologize, that idea will work well until you realize the problem of recommending gears while having no experience with them would still exist.
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But you will never stop that. Its like asking people to stop going to fast food restraunts. People want what ever they are looking for fast and as easy as possible. I agree that is sucks, but I personally don't see how to change that. So IMHO get it out of the main forums at least.
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Apr 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM Post #122 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by kshelton /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So we make a thread to complain about it? Like I said why don't the more experienced posts get together and help update the headphone buyers guide? Or maybe we could even do a series of polls for instance "Vote on your favorite open headphone under 100$" We could make several of these, and over time as a community we could essentially make a one stop recommendation thread....

All I am trying to say is instead of complaining lets all think of a way to help out
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There are many new members who come here who know a great deal more about audio and/or headphones than I do. Perhaps you're one of them? This forum needs more of these members than they do the ones like me who are still learning their abc.

But in order to eliminate repetitive posts and still allow participation, I don't see the problem with my original recommendations 1-3. Knowledgeable new members can still post, just not start a thread. Their participation is most welcome and it won't take them long to generate a minimum number of posts. I'll be learning from them, much like I so now!

Our hobby is so subjective that updating the headphone buyers guide simply does not work. For every one who loves a certain can, say the HD600, there is another who can't stand it. No offense but I don't see polls or the headphone buyers guide helping someone putting their system together with their individual tastes, goals and needs.

No, I don't have all the answers. But I care about this community. I care about the community's integrity. I'm not alone. Many here do. There are just as many that don't see this as a community, nor do they see they have individual responsibility. Maybe I didn't capture it, but I tried to take a newer member's viewpoint in my original post. But there is no denying my view is tempered by the time I've been here on head-fi.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM Post #123 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Absolutely agree with what you've stated, but what does that have to do with members, new today or seasoned, asking others to be respectful of how their words affect the community as a whole? That shouldn't be a newbie vs. veteran concern (I consider myself a newbie in many ways), and should benefit everyone. If anyone knows my posting history, it's clear I sometimes need to be reminded of that myself.
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Ah, because at the end of the day people can't help but be who and what they are. I see nothing wrong with the thread and am somewhat surprised that it hasn't turned nasty (perhaps there is hope.
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). There is also nothing wrong with asking members to be respectful as you suggest. I just sprinkle my expectations with a bit of past experience in similar situations. Asking a group 80,000+ people to change their behavior is not likely to produce the sort of outcome that anyone will notice.

Yes, my views on this subject can be considered defeatist and I'll accept that some of you may see me that way. I don't regard the effort as a waste of time, but I also don't expect the sort of change on the scale that some of you are advocating -- however nice a thought and laudable a goal that might be.

--Jerome
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:04 PM Post #124 of 147
IMO, people should only ask questions after they've already spent sometime on their own researching the problem. But I don't think there's really anyone can do to stop these 'Headphone Recommendation' threads from popping up.

Quote:

If you don't like the typical recommendation threads then don't look at them.


-It's hard not to look at them (and I don't mean going into the threads) when they're taking up so much of the forum space.


One idea is to implement some sort of posting restriction, for example, only people with 50+ post counts can create a thread. It's not the perfect solution, but I think it might help.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:07 PM Post #125 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If someone here has a massively expensive rig, and a lot of people do, you can be sure that they also have a rather high-paying job, and their time is worth a lot of money, which they are spending to answer someone because they feel like it.


Some people enjoy giving recommendations. And I'll bet it's 10x easier for an experienced user to help a noob than for the noob to help him/herself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenneth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
IMO, people should only ask questions after they've already spent sometime on their own researching the problem. But I don't think there's really anyone can do to stop these 'Headphone Recommendation' threads from popping up.


-It's hard not to look at them (and I don't mean going into the threads) when they're taking up so much of the forum space.


One idea is to implement some sort of posting restriction, for example, only people with 50+ post counts can create a thread. It's not the perfect solution, but I think it might help.



What do they post until then? Advice?
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Apr 30, 2009 at 10:11 PM Post #126 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What do they post until then? Advice?
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Lol, touché. Forget I said that then.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:25 PM Post #127 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by jenneth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Lol, touché. Forget I said that then.


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Perhaps make a rule like no posting for X days, and then before they post they have to do a headphone knowledge test, lol.

"People usually say this about DT770/80s:

Bass-heavy
Light but controlled bass
Forward Mids
Similar to Grado SR80s
No such thing as a DT770

The AKG K701 is:

The best out there when properly amped
Enjoyable to a certain group of people when amped
Hated by everyone even when amped
Fine out of a MacBook but not as good at the AD700" (lol I couldn't resist)

Make sure they've been researching, haha.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:32 PM Post #129 of 147
I am trying to maintain minimal posting on my part in this thread as mainly I would like to hear many people discuss, and many more people listen. Sometimes I have to try my best to intervene though...

Lets start with a conceptual idea of a forum - and I don't mean an online posting board.

Forums focus on discussions, often led by members of knowledge/experience, in order to help the less experienced understand. The less experience (the audience) then ask questions, discuss ideas with each other, and try to optimize their benefits. Forum is not a party, forum is not a crowd - the concept literally focuses on a discussion where the leaders have superior credentials.


Let us proceed with comments in this thread then.

As I said before - the objective of this thread is for a discussion that is to be ready more members, especially the new folk. It is clear that it did succeed in attracting some - we see quite a few people with ~50 posts posting, meaning probably alot more have just read it. Great, I am happy that this topic is getting at least some attention.

Nevertheless, I am troubled by the fact that some think that we are trying to be elitist and against new members. We are very willing to help - you have people here whose time costs upwards of 100 dollars an hour, taking plenty of time to write informative posts and discussions of equipment, appropriate philosophy, music, and even simple economics of this hobby. Their time is producing things interesting to everyone - as alot of the things discussed depend more on perspective than a black and white setting of what we could encompass in a "head-fi-wiki". This is one of the inherent qualities of this material that demands a forum rather than a textbook.

Let me reiterate - we are happy to help. We do this to share the knowledge that we acquired, to the best of our ability, leaving some projection of what we don't know, in order to help the combined wisdom of the community help. What we ask for in exchange is maintaining the forum etiquette and spirit. People should come here to learn from one another, and offer some respect to EVERYONE else present, by taking the time to listen and think before speaking. The community operates only on the basis of everyone acting within a role that is appropriate to their abilities.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:36 PM Post #131 of 147
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Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would ask, good sir, for you to point out where the discussion lost some of its quality, and contrast the high-quality discussion with the low-quality discussion.


That whole quiz nonsense.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 11:01 PM Post #132 of 147
This really shouldn't be so difficult to explain.

I'm not against new members. I'm not even trying to shut down headphone recommendation threads as a whole. I'm only against an attitude that some members have that is destructive to the boards. If we were to try and shut this attitude down, especially in some new members that come to these boards, but also in a lot of members that already are on these boards, then everyone, new and old alike, will benefit.

A community is made up of every member that's a part of it, and everyone contributes to it. A new member that comes in and asks for suggestions contributes to the boards and the community as a whole. So, why then does it not make sense to make sure that their contribution, as well as the contribution of existing members, is not destructive to the quality of content on the boards, and the attitude and integrity of the community?

A community's greatest strength is the quality of its exceptional members. When a community produces an environment that drives away these exceptional members, the whole community suffers as a result. This is what head-fi has been doing, and this is why head-fi is suffering. The only elitism here among the older members is that they remember head-fi when it was still strong, while newer members don't have that basis of comparison. But we're not advocating extra rights for old members but simply that everyone, new and old alike, puts some more respect into their posts, and into the community.

As I said before, there is a very real material reason for why we need to maintain forum content quality and community integrity. The world is not a lovey-dovey place and unethical manufacturers can and will take advantage of a clueless community. They're doing it already. And the community needs stregth in the form of expert members to be able to show these manufacturers for who they are. When a community drives these members away instead, manufacturers have leave to do as they will, and everybody, expert or novice or anyone in between, suffers.

Yes I understand the cyclical nature of change, and I understand that this is the natural progression for a successful board. Not to brag, but if you read the threads you'll see that I was among the first to post about it, and in detail. I'm not even asking 80,000 people to uniformly change their posting habits, that would be impossible. However I'm asking for some of the members to be more critical of forum content, and to start encouraging a certain conduct, which is simply nothing more than respect to the community, forum content, and generally putting some thought into what people say and do. When some of the more vocal members start doing this, it will snowball and begin to proliferate. We only have to do this for a few weeks, and it will start to become the norm.

There's nothing wrong about going against natural trends. Sure, it's a natural trend for a board to slowly deteriorate, and it may reach an equilibrium between signal and noise, and it may go down in flames. But we're not wholly subject to natural trends and we can change them. But only if there's more than a handful of vocal members involved, and throwing your hands up into the air and saying "that's impossible" isn't going to help the situation.

Maybe some of you don't care about head-fi and are willing to watch it rot, but I do. But there's only so much I can take and if this goes on long enough I will leave. Many, many people who have made this community what it is have done so already, and this may be a natural progression of events but you cannot argue that it hasn't done damage to the community, especially if you weren't there to witness the process firsthand.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 11:02 PM Post #133 of 147
I agree with MaloS. Instead of begging people to do the foot work for me, I looked at phones in my price range on the web, then cross referenced them with what people had been saying on Head-fi, and that's it. Quit being lazy people, the internet is easy enough already.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 11:16 PM Post #134 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by shirtaspants /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That whole quiz nonsense.


So joking around = thread degeneration? If a high quality thread is 100% serious, then I suppose I'm not a big fan of high quality threads.
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As for the issue of maintaining the site's quality, I agree, to an extent. There is a lot of fanboyism *cough* intoart *cough* and bad recommendations, and that needs to be solved, but I'm not sure how exactly that can be done.

Also, what's with the whole "If it sounds good, it is good" thing? Often people come here claiming 0 experience or very little, say they like X marginally liked/unliked headphone from hearing it and 1/2 of the responses say "Go for it." If you took a guy who'd never heard anything beyond $2 buds and gave him Skullcandy Hesh he'd probably love them, it doesn't mean that's what he should be buying at that price point, he doesn't know enough to form an opinion on them in relation to the other options at his price point.
 
Apr 30, 2009 at 11:30 PM Post #135 of 147
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So joking around = thread degeneration? If a high quality thread is 100% serious, then I suppose I'm not a big fan of high quality threads.
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As for the issue of maintaining the site's quality, I agree, to an extent. There is a lot of fanboyism *cough* intoart *cough* and bad recommendations, and that needs to be solved, but I'm not sure how exactly that can be done.



Degenerating a thread is posting with just jokes and no content. You've done just that. Shush.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Also, what's with the whole "If it sounds good, it is good" thing? Often people come here claiming 0 experience or very little, say they like X marginally liked/unliked headphone from hearing it and 1/2 of the responses say "Go for it." If you took a guy who'd never heard anything beyond $2 buds and gave him Skullcandy Hesh he'd probably love them, it doesn't mean that's what he should be buying at that price point, he doesn't know enough to form an opinion on them in relation to the other options at his price point.


I came looking for better headphones after deciding that the best I could find at a price point just didn't sound acceptable.
 

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