[daycart1]

This must be one of the best threads of all time on Head-Fi. And its got me seriously itching for some Stax!!

 

[KR...]

Quote:

Originally posted by daycart1 This must be one of the best threads of all time on Head-Fi. And its got me seriously itching for some Stax!!

Your wallet just committed suicide

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik I was looking for a new HE90, I found one for 5234 $, but now I not more interested in them, thanks to eric343. Best! Nicola

Great, I'm glad I saved you the money.

(for those of you that think I'm being sarcastic, I'm not -- isn't the point of Head-Fi to help us find stuff we like, and steer us away from stuff we wouldn't?)


Daycart- Definitely, try them. As Nik has learned, electrostats are the best. Period. Buy some Omega2s, they'll tide you over until Sennheiser releases their Orpheus sequel...

(actually, I have heard rumors to the effect that Sennheiser is working on another electrostat. But then again, Stax is apparently working on another Omega, too...)

 

[darth nut]

Quote:

Originally posted by daycart1 This must be one of the best threads of all time on Head-Fi. And its got me seriously itching for some Stax!!

This thread kind of reminds me of jazz music-- quite free form , but still loosely based on a common theme. Almost everyone in this thread could be accused of thread-hijack, including myself. (I mean, you know, this thread is about the, uh, T2 amp.) But this thread must have the highest participation of electrostatic headphone fans of any thread I've seen. I think the mods are just letting us continue with our fun. Whew! *wipes bead of sweat off forehead*

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin gilmore quote http://www.rudistor.com/sound-lab/diy.htm Not one cap in the signal path is it. One cap in each of the two signal paths. This is an open loop design. Absolutely no feedback whatsoever. The thd is more like .5% or worse. It is a lot like the nova scotia weather. If you don't like it then wait an hour. section to section matching of both tubes is very important. Tube rolling can go on forever. As the tubes age the sound will change. Dramatically change... The reduced power supply voltages will limit the dynamic range of the headphones. 66k plate resistors will limit the high frequency response into higher capacitance headphones. Running 12ax7's at 500 volts is also not a good idea. Any decently designed tube amp should sound roughly the same regardless of the tubes used. This is definitely not one of those designs. It is a very easy design to build. A good starting point for someone who wants to get into electrostatic amps on the way to complicated designs.

As I wrote the schematic of the Heuridix in the Rudistor page is an example of a very simple work, just to be realized by everyone in a DIY hobby.

The Egmont is similar but even different in some important things. And sometimes the littles things do the different!

We are speaking of two different kinds of amps: one is hybrid and the other is only tubes... for what I know of the Omega II, I prefer a full tubey sound for them.

My comparison between the two Stax drivers (717-007t) was incredibly clear: I do not like the "opamps" sound, I see the electrostatics cans more in the way of a very hi quality tube amp!

I also prefer the simplest schematic the minimalist concept in construction: less components but hi quality. I see the Gilmore amps too much complicated... but I never listened one so I cannot judge as they sound in my setup (at this moment).

I wait for a rew of someone who own one Blue Away, I'm very interested on it ... but at this moment I have no any comment about his sound.

Best!
Nicola

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik My comparison between the two Stax drivers (717-007t) was incredibly clear: I do not like the "opamps" sound, I see the electrostatics cans more in the way of a very hi quality tube amp!

It's difficult to say that transistor-based (whether opamp or discrete transistor -- opamps are "transistor blocks" that contain many transistors in a largely pre-made amplifier, whereas discrete transistors have each transistor separated out for the designer to control and tweak) amplifiers all have the same sound.

For example, a MOSFET-based Szerkes buffer with OPA2132 gain stage (which is a VERY, very simple design) design has been described as "bubbly hot tub warm", yet it uses an opamp and a single transistor. In fact, if your source has a volume control, you can leave out the opamp and have a single-transistor component, which is the ultimate in simplicity in audio design since, unlike tubes, all you need is a battery and a capacitor or two to drive it -- no transformers or complex power supplies or even more than a handful of resistors and a coupling capacitor or two.

Now, I'm not saying that the Szerkes buffer is terribly Hi-Fi (then again, I've never heard one, so I couldn't say!), but it is an example.

The KGSS and Blue Hawaii/Hybrid both use discrete transistors for gain, the Blue Hawaii uses grounded-grid EL34 tubes in its output stage. The grounded-grid is a technology that is almost unique in the world of audio, only one or two other designs in the world have ever used it. It was used a lot in radio, however, because of its excellent properties. In the Hybrid amplifier, the tubes give it a warmer quality with better bass (since the tubes have better control over the headphones) than the KGSS -- one person that built the Hybrid said that "if you aren't already a bass-lover, the Hybrid will make you one." Or something like that.

 

[Nik]

My source do not has a volume control. I always listened an incredible different at my ears between all the SS amps and the tubes amps, any price and class.

I'm not a designer, I'm not a technician so would be hard to speak with persons who know much better than me how is a construction of an amp. My words are only by my ears and tastes, but in this point I can adfirm that my experience is BIG.

I had a standard version of the Egmont amp, and I liked it a lot in comparison with the best result I had with the 007t Stax driver, so I cannot have more... anyone can send to me a Blue Haway just for testing in my setup??????

About the two Stax drievers (717-007t) I had a big impression as my tastes are in a tubey sound direction for the Omega II, other thing was the problem of the R10. I'm coming from that kind of sound (R10/Angstrom two box) and the openess and clarity of the Omega needs (IMO) a "old style tube sound".

Best!
Nicola

PS:
Speaking with my designer he knows the projects of KG, but he is not agree with that type of ideas, he believe in simpler way...

 

[jatinder]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik Jatinder, this I do not understand in your taste: you prefer the Orpheus to the Omega II that has (as you said) exagerated bass, even more than the R10/Angstrom??? (impossible!!!). How long did you keep the Omega II? Best! Nicola

Hi Nik,

I had the Omega II for a week and really loved it. At some times, I thought it was "generally overall better" than the Orpheus. Over time though, I came to really dislike the exaggerated bass on the Omega II/007t. I also missed some of the higher frequencies.

Overall, it was the exaggerated bass and the lack of very high freqs which I came to dislike - and once it came to my attention, I greatly preferred the sound of the Orpheus.

Perhaps - the OmegaII/007t needed a bit of cable-rolling etc to get it to perform properly? I really don't know.

With the R10 -- again, I really had the same conclusions as compared to the Stax - the tonal balance of the Stax was just plain wrong - and no matter what the Stax actually did right, tonal balance was just more important to me.

--Jatinder

 

[Nik]

I suspect that the "problem" is not in the Omega II, but something else... may be the source or cables, or power conditioner (????). It's very strange what you say about the Omega. I do not know the Orpheus, but the R10/Angstrom (so a very similar setup to your) I know very, very well and the Stax (IMO) has a better tonal balance than the Sony... sure!

May be one only week is not enought for a complete test of the cans, specially if was a new unit... the same for the SRM 007t, the sound changed a lot with hours of work and with the better tubes inside.

Best!
Nicola

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin gilmore given the tube complement of the egmont amp, there are only 4 possible schematics. http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/tubeamps.jpg Of the 4 only the last one has one coupling cap. It is also the one with the most dc drift, and has a number of stability problems. Both of the last 2 lift the dc voltage of the stators to half the power supply voltage. Not generally considered a good idea. You could take method 4, change the output power supplies to +/-225, then change the -200 to something like -425 and the +100 to something like -125. Now you have problems with the filament voltage to cathode voltage spec. So now the approximate schematic of the egmont is known

No one of these 4 schematic is the Egmont, near but not the same!

Best!
Nicola

 

[darth nut]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik About the two Stax drievers (717-007t) I had a big impression as my tastes are in a tubey sound direction for the Omega II, other thing was the problem of the R10. I'm coming from that kind of sound (R10/Angstrom two box) and the openess and clarity of the Omega needs (IMO) a "old style tube sound".

I wish you could listen to the T2 and tell me your opinion. From what I understand of your writings, I think Nik will not like the T2 so much.

The funny thing about the T2 is that, despite having 8 tubes inside, it does not sound "tubey". (The T2 has 4nos 6dj8 input tubes and 4nos EL34 output tubes.) On the contrary, the T2 actually sounds like a good solid state amp, with increased extensions at the frequency extremes. The old school tube sound is more about a golden midrange, with less emphasis on frequency extensions. The T2 is not old school tube sound. So I think Nik made the correct decision not to purchase the T2.

Apparently in good amps there appear to be a convergence: good tube amplifiers sound like solid state amps, and good solid state amps sound like tube amps. I see the T2 as a balance between the extremes of tube sound (golden midrange, with not-so-good extension at frequency extremes) and solid state sound (good extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum, cool-sounding, dynamic).

Phew! After the free-form doodles in the air, the jazz piece has to come back to the main theme.

 

[Nik]

Thanks darth nut for your right words, yes I have the impression that the T2 sound would be not for me. As even the Orpheus headphone, not for me!

I'm coming from the R10/Angstrom setup that is one of the best dynamic equipment, if I'll arrive to what I'm imagining for the Omega II I'll can to declare definitely that the Stax is better than the Sony, or... the best electrostatic is better than the best dynamic can!

Best!
Nicola

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik Thanks darth nut for your right words, yes I have the impression that the T2 sound would be not for me. As even the Orpheus headphone, not for me!

A quick note... while it's all fine and good to read what we write and decide based on that, I'm a firm believer in the idea that your ears are the first, last, and only way of accurately judging audio gear. So while you might not want to go out and buy some HE90s or a T2, I would still try to arrange to listen to them, because you might end up liking them after all.

As they say... "it never hurts to listen."

 

[Nik]

Yes, you are right! But sometimes even Nik do not can afford some equipments... in this situation the help of the headfiers friends is very, very important for me. So when I cannot buy something I prefer to wait and listen with the setup I have, just one time I bought a gear without any precedent listening test and you know the history (Manley 300B).

For example the post of darth nut about the T2 sound (not for me) is a very important help for me... thanks to him!

Best!
Nicola

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by jatinder Overall, it was the exaggerated bass and the lack of very high freqs which I came to dislike - and once it came to my attention, I greatly preferred the sound of the Orpheus. Perhaps - the OmegaII/007t needed a bit of cable-rolling etc to get it to perform properly? I really don't know. --Jatinder

Two quick observations:

1. At this level of the game it's all about personal preferences. It sounds to me like you don't like the amount of bass the Omega II had, thus preferred the HE90 over them. That's perfectly fine. Also, the rolled-off highs weren't to your liking, which is something you didn't care for. Another preference, again making the Orpheus more to your liking. No one can say what is objectively perfect since people prefer different things. I loved bass, and as such added a 150w X2 amp and (2) 15" subs to my car years ago. While in the audio shoip being installed another guy had several pairs of tweeters installed in his car, and yet only a single 8" sube with a 40w amp. Killed my ears, but who cares what it sounded like to me. It was his truck, his ears, his money.

2. Cablerolling can dramatically alter the sonic balance of the Omega IIs. While I only have a somewhat limited experience in this area, having only tried 6 or 7 cables with the Omegas in my system, Vertigo-1 has a lot of experience. It took him a long time to settle on some cables that bought the highs out without throwing the balance out of whack with the rest of the spectrum. After trying various cable offerings myself I finally got a pair he recommended, and now the highs are in balance with the system rather nicely. They sounded dark with the other cables, yet quite balanced with these.

3. Knowing you most liekly prefer a lower bass output and balanced sound, it might not be worthwhile for you to try out the Omegas and cabelroll them until they work. You have a system you love and suits you rather nicely. While it might pay off to buy the Omegas and some form of amp to run them, it also might be a waste of time and money also.