[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevorlane I'll shed some light on the subject. Yes, I should probably have auditioned the mentioned items before purchasing them, but I cannot as R10s are not readily available in this area. In fact, the only phones I own of any value as of right now are the CD-3000s. Reading meet impressions actually became a large factor in my decision. It seems with agile_one's amps: R10 + Maestro/Stealth, people had different reactions when using either amp. The Stealth had a much more "in your face" type of feel, while the Maestro had a mellow, enveloping quality. Granted I listen to classical, but it's not to say I don't like my classical with a bit of power. I listen to classical in the Romantic and Modern periods, where much of the music lies in the glory of an imperialistic era gone by, into the darkness of depression, successive wars, and to new heights in the post 1950s. Not to say music from the Baroque period was peachy-keen, but if I am to match a system with the music, then I will base it upon its ability to convey emotion. I feel the R10/Stealth will do just that. But please, slap me if I'm wrong!

*slap*

Dude, listen to what i'm saying:

I'm not mentioning THE MAESTRO. I'm talking about THE SUPRA. From what i've heard the two are VERY DIFFERENT. And i can definitely say the Supra is a VERY RAWKin amp but the R10s lend it the control it needs. The Maestro is around $3300 and ALOT of that $3300 is for the pre-amp function. The Supra is a dedicated headphone amp for around $17000 or $2000 with the NOS tubes which can give it as smooth or as rocking a sound as you want. If want extreme power and punch, get some Sylvania 6SN7Ws for the output tubes and a Ken Rad VT231 for the input and the Supra would probably have just as much, if not more punch than the Stealth. For my classical i prefer the gorgeous tone and balance that the Ken Rad VT231 input tube and matched Sylvania VT231 lends (this is combo Mikhail recommends too).

I think the fact that Supra is cheaper, is a dedicated headphone amp (which is probably WHY it's cheaper), and you can dramatically alter the sound with a tube change is why you should really consider it. I was really worried about the R10s and Supra being to lax on some of my harder rock and metal albums, but one listen to Meshuggah's Chaosphere put a big smile on my face. The fact that this same combo can then turn around and do something like Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain so amazingly really shocked me. But i still think a little more research on those two amps on your part might not hurt.

 

[darkclouds]

WulfmanJax, you seem quite adament about the supra. I'm curious if you have had experiences with any other amps (especially some of the ones you've mentioned)?

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkclouds WulfmanJax, you seem quite adament about the supra. I'm curious if you have had experiences with any other amps (especially some of the ones you've mentioned)?

Ummm, errrrr, well, you see the thing is...... *runs out of thread*

To tell the truth i haven't tried most of them (and not the Stealth). All of my info comes from the hundreds of reviews I've read. And perhaps i wasn't making myself clear when i said trevor was making a "big mistake" by not going with the Supra: I simply meant he should definitely give the Supra a try before deciding. I'm not such a fanboy as to say "the Supra is definitely a better amp than the Stealth and no way would trevor or anyone like the Stealth better", far from it. But it just seems to me he jumped to a decision rather fast, especially considering the initial budget he was on and that the Supra could save him atleast $500. Also the fact that Mikhail hand builds each Supra and since trevor knows which headphones he's getting Mikhail could build the Supra to HIS specs.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax Ummm, errrrr, well, you see the thing is...... *runs out of thread* To tell the truth i haven't tried most of them (and not the Stealth). All of my info comes from the hundreds of reviews I've read. And perhaps i wasn't making myself clear when i said trevor was making a "big mistake" by not going with the Supra: I simply meant he should definitely give the Supra a try before deciding. I'm not such a fanboy as to say "the Supra is definitely a better amp than the Stealth and no way would trevor or anyone like the Stealth better", far from it. But it just seems to me he jumped to a decision rather fast, especially considering the initial budget he was on and that the Supra could save him atleast $500. Also the fact that Mikhail hand builds each Supra and since trevor knows which headphones he's getting Mikhail could build the Supra to HIS specs.

I remember when you were posting threads asking about setups. But what I don't recall headfiers posting their opinions like the way you do to trevorlane. I am not attacking you or anything. All I am saying to the rest of the headfi commuinity you are trying to preach your system to trevorlane as the perfect setup. I believe it is the perfect setup for you. But it might not be for trevorlane. As for trevorlane jumping to making the decision fast. Did you ever bother to get in touch with Ray Samuels for a demo of the stealth? I am sure he does a certain period demo of his products. (correct me if I am wrong, headfiers). IMO you jumped to make the decision fast and on especially the budget you were on. You could of taken your time and tried the cream of the crop.

 

[Tuberoller]

This is clearly one of those times when strong consideration should be placed on actual listening experience. I would'nt take anyone's word who has'nt had the opportunity or taken the time to actually audition the gear they are recommending. I'm sure we all know this already but I figured this might jar us all back to our senses.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested contacting those few folks who actually own the gear and I would second that,strongly.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 I remember when you were posting threads asking about setups. But what I don't recall headfiers posting their opinions like the way you do to trevorlane. I am not attacking you or anything. All I am saying to the rest of the headfi commuinity you are trying to preach your system to trevorlane as the perfect setup. I believe it is the perfect setup for you. But it might not be for trevorlane. As for trevorlane jumping to making the decision fast. Did you ever bother to get in touch with Ray Samuels for a demo of the stealth? I am sure he does a certain period demo of his products. (correct me if I am wrong, headfiers). IMO you jumped to make the decision fast and on especially the budget you were on. You could of taken your time and tried the cream of the crop.

I wasn't trying to say my setup was "the perfect setup", and if it came across like that, i'm sorry. I was just saying that the Supra/R10 combo is widely considered one of, if not the best headphone combos out there and he was making a mistake by *not even considering it*. If Samuels offered a demo of the Stealth that would be really cool because perhaps it would allow trevor to make it to a meet somewhere to try out some other combos before settling on anything. Who knows, he might like something completely different other than a Supra or Stealth. And i did probably a good 4 months of research and another month of testing before settling on my system. Which doesn't seem like alot, but living where i do there wasn't much i could do as far as meets and trying stuff out goes. So all i could do was make a semi informed decision on all the information i had gained through reviews and talking to people on head fi and elsewhere.

What made me chose the Supra over the Stealth were several things:

1. The Supra is a dedicated headphone amp, so i'm not paying extra for a pre-amp which i don't need.
2. Mikhail builds each amp to customer's specs, so i could get one made for my R10s or any headphone i wanted.
3. I could get a great set of NOS tubes with them, still at a great price.

Plus from all the reviews i read it just seemed like a more versatile amp (in terms of sound) than the Stealth (despite the Stealth's innovative "third tube" idea). From all the people i'd talked to and reviews i'd read it also kept popping up that the R10s and Supra went great together so that sealed the deal.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax I wasn't trying to say my setup was "the perfect setup", and if it came across like that, i'm sorry. I was just saying that the Supra/R10 combo is widely considered one of, if not the best headphone combos out there and he was making a mistake by *not even considering it*. If Samuels offered a demo of the Stealth that would be really cool because perhaps it would allow trevor to make it to a meet somewhere to try out some other combos before settling on anything. Who knows, he might like something completely different other than a Supra or Stealth. And i did probably a good 4 months of research and another month of testing before settling on my system. Which doesn't seem like alot, but living where i do there wasn't much i could do as far as meets and trying stuff out goes. So all i could do was make a semi informed decision on all the information i had gained through reviews and talking to people on head fi and elsewhere. What made me chose the Supra over the Stealth were several things: 1. The Supra is a dedicated headphone amp, so i'm not paying extra for a pre-amp which i don't need. 2. Mikhail builds each amp to customer's specs, so i could get one made for my R10s or any headphone i wanted. 3. I could get a great set of NOS tubes with them, still at a great price. Plus from all the reviews i read it just seemed like a more versatile amp (in terms of sound) than the Stealth (despite the Stealth's innovative "third tube" idea). From all the people i'd talked to and reviews i'd read it also kept popping up that the R10s and Supra went great together so that sealed the deal.

Wulf, you really gotta stay outta threads like this. I know you have the R10s and all, but you really don't have enough experience to comment in a thread like this. Good intentions aside, the thread starter would be better off with comments from those with first-hand knowledege. This is big league stuff here. I remember one guy awhile back who was a newb but had a great system, way better than me and most others. He commented in a thread in which the starter need to diagnose a simple problem. I said it was the source which was holding the starter back, but he (the other guy) kept implying I was wrong. I had first-hand experience, but he kept saying otherwise yet I'm sure his current megabuck source was his first and only. Course five minutes later about 10 guys came in and backed me up, since the answer was so damn obvious.

Moral, leave this stuff to the experienced. I've done what you're doing before, but never so adamant or with such high stakes. I know when to back out when I really only have crap to say.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia Wulf, you really gotta stay outta threads like this. I know you have the R10s and all, but you really don't have enough experience to comment in a thread like this. Good intentions aside, the thread starter would be better off with comments from those with first-hand knowledege. This is big league stuff here. I remember one guy awhile back who was a newb but had a great system, way better than me and most others. He commented in a thread in which the starter need to diagnose a simple problem. I said it was the source which was holding the starter back, but he (the other guy) kept implying I was wrong. I had first-hand experience, but he kept saying otherwise yet I'm sure his current megabuck source was his first and only. Course five minutes later about 10 guys came in and backed me up, since the answer was so damn obvious. Moral, leave this stuff to the experienced. I've done what you're doing before, but never so adamant or with such high stakes. I know when to back out when I really only have crap to say.

*pulls hair out, goes ballistic and kills everyone in thread*

Why is it so wrong to try to get the guy to consider other options? I mean trevor started this thread asking for the best headphone amp combo for under $4000, and by page 3 he's already decided? That seems a little strange to me. When i was searching for my system it took many threads and many chats with many different people for me to make up my mind. Not to mention the hundreds of reviews i read. All i've done in this thread is echo reviews i've read and review my personal personal experiences which haven't been as limited as you think. I think it would do him some good to start another thread JUST for the Supra/Stealth for R10s thing to see what others think.

 

[TimSchirmer]

If you want a really nice headphone setup, i'd go with omega 2's, KGSS and a source that suits your tastes. In the 1.5kish range i like the linn ikemi and 47 labs shigaraki. If you want something less exciting, go for meridian or cary.

There is no dynamic setup that will come close to this that i've heard. Although the sony qualia phones might be good. If you want less expensive, I really dig the HP1000/Gilmore/Linn Ikemi setup. They play very well together.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax *pulls hair out, goes ballistic and kills everyone in thread* Why is it so wrong to try to get the guy to consider other options? I mean trevor started this thread asking for the best headphone amp combo for under $4000, and by page 3 he's already decided? That seems a little strange to me. When i was searching for my system it took many threads and many chats with many different people for me to make up my mind. Not to mention the hundreds of reviews i read. All i've done in this thread is echo reviews i've read and review my personal personal experiences which haven't been as limited as you think. I think it would do him some good to start another thread JUST for the Supra/Stealth for R10s thing to see what others think.

It's not that. It's obvious you're only trying to help, but your so determined to get your point across. I've never see anyone debate with others so much over something they've never heard. Suggesting is one thing, but you're pushing the options with no or little first-hand experience.

Also, reading reviews does not make someone an expert. Many cases regarding phones and stuff are surefire. But at this point, with so much at stake, the starter should really only get help from people who have tried different combos and compared them.

I'm not knocking you Wulf, you're not doing anything intentially bad. It's good to want to help, bu tyou gotta relax.

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia It's not that. It's obvious you're only trying to help, but your so determined to get your point across. I've never see anyone debate with others so much over something they've never heard. Suggesting is one thing, but you're pushing the options with no or little first-hand experience. Also, reading reviews does not make someone an expert. Many cases regarding phones and stuff are surefire. But at this point, with so much at stake, the starter should really only get help from people who have tried different combos and compared them. I'm not knocking you Wulf, you're not doing anything intentially bad. It's good to want to help, bu tyou gotta relax.

Listen to Kirosia, he is a voice of reason. The Stealth and the Supra are both fine amps. Reviews must be taken for what they are, someone else's biased opinion. Besides, there aren't too many real reviews out there on either amp. A couple lines from some guy who heard it once doesn't mean anything. The R10 sounds great with the Supra. Don't force the issue.

Another thing, at this point, don't get an R10 without listening to it first. It's a great headphone but I prefer both the Stax Omega II and the Qualia 010.

 

[john_jcb]

For the kind of money you are talking about here it would not seem unreasonable to me to attend a couple of meets where hardware you are considering can be personally evaluated. Plane tickets are cheap. I have heard a number of conflicting reports about how the R-10 pairs with amps and I would not lay out my money for something I have not heard or at least that has been throughly evaluated by someone I trust.

 

[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman Listen to Kirosia, he is a voice of reason. The Stealth and the Supra are both fine amps. Reviews must be taken for what they are, someone else's biased opinion. Besides, there aren't too many real reviews out there on either amp. A couple lines from some guy who heard it once doesn't mean anything. The R10 sounds great with the Supra. Don't force the issue. Another thing, at this point, don't get an R10 without listening to it first. It's a great headphone but I prefer both the Stax Omega II and the Qualia 010.

He could check out Dougs (servinginecuador) reviews of both the amps. I believe he reviewed both the Supra and the Stealth for soundstage.

 

[john_jcb]

IIRC Servinginecuador did not have R-10's for either of his reviews.

 

[Swampwalker]

john jcb gives VERY sound advice. At this level, for the most part, we are dealing with subtle distinctions and very subjective valuation. Get thee to a meet, Trevor. Or at least, swing on down to West Hartford, and see if you like K1000s

or 650s