[Toolman]

when the owner,the designer.the engineer stated like that, shangrilla is his flagship headphone and his perfect headphone he ever made and they could produce the best sound quality. it's very hard to argue which one is their flagship and their best yet. its like if sennheiser stated the orpheus2 is their best headphone system.and some dude saying no i think its hd800s or first orpheus.or stax with their 009 and some argue 007 mk1 or mk2 is their best or might even their first omega. at this point i just took the information their give for the public. i'm not necessarily going to believe in it but it's their claim, their opinion, not mine

again it was long time ago, ces 2017.maybe now he want to update his opinion about his shangrilla

Some products are that good that any argument otherwise is just plain dumb...Orpheus II is so good you must be salty or bias to say otherwise.

Remember that not too long ago Fang proudly claimed that HEK is his best headphone but little did we know that in his workshop they have already prepared a V2...anyway "my wife is the hottest and my kids are the cutest". Am sure everyone will take that statement with a pinch of salt...same for HFM. Its your money that he wants so trust your ears (or eyes) and make your own judgement

 

[Shure or bust]

​

Ill post if the ed6 is worse than the utopia, lcd4, hekv2 when i hear it soon. My collection is getting smaller instead of bigger these days. I just sold my dac and amp for a chord mojo. Sold the hekv2, lcd4, oppo pm1 for isine 20( waiting on i3) dumped utopia, z1r, Sem1 to jump into electrostats. Tried the Shure kse1500 to replace closed back but its too uncomfortable. Electrostat or bust.

 

[ruhenheiM]

Some products are that good that any argument otherwise is just plain dumb...Orpheus II is so good you must be salty or bias to say otherwise.

Remember that not too long ago Fang proudly claimed that HEK is his best headphone but little did we know that in his workshop they have already prepared a V2...anyway "my wife is the hottest and my kids are the cutest". Am sure everyone will take that statement with a pinch of salt...same for HFM. Its your money that he wants so trust your ears (or eyes) and make your own judgement

i did said it was his opinion right? it's not my opinion.i just stated his opinion. i already said i never listened both of them.i just stated his opinion. the man himself.the owner,the designer,the engineer. and i did said it was long time ago, he said that in ces 2017.before he release edition 6. and i did said probably now he want to update his opinion about his shangrilla.his creation. pretty sure he's the one who design the whole line up of hifiman products including jade audio.so if you want to argue.argue with him, fan biang. not me
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/287277/heaudio-1-3-1-2b-and-the-new-jade-stat-headphones

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

  i heard them at NY canjam and they are absolutely amazing. they beat hands down the HE1000 and edition X series. Very natural sound, open, relaxed.

i heard them in NYC as well. I thought they we're super comfortable and sounded wonderful to my ears. 

 

[supabayes]

 Priced a bit higher at about $1500-2000 for the HE-6 would have been perfect.

 
Ed6 sounded so good, it has to leapfrog over the HE1000v2 in pricing. $2000 will rub both HE1000 v1 and v2 owners the wrong way. 

 

[Jozurr]

There is a bigger problem we are missing. When using speaker amps, folks have blown out the drivers for thr HE-6, including myself. Now they are either covered under warranty or they are not, probably not. My HE6 werent in warranty so I paid $250 to get the drivers replaced.

Now I cant imagine if this would be covered under warranty for the SSV, or how much it will cost to replace the drivers, knowing that these drivers do blow up (singapore canjam), and replacing the drivers might cost 4x as well. User error is very easy when using speaker amps on headphones. If they arent covered under warranty including user error of blowing up drivers, Id be far too scared too risk that kind of investment to connect to a speaker amp, therefore under powering them, and them not sounding as intended. At that point maybe my well powered HE6 sound better.

 

[thefitz]

I still have yet to hear a proper definition of "underpowered". Or why any old damn speaker amp is perfect for the HE-6. There's a great post on the forum-that-can't-be-named-due-to-fragile-egos just decimating the concept. It can't be that old speaker amps have a bunch of high-end rolloff - never! It's the fact that the HE-6 isn't "underpowered"!
 
EDIT: Imagine this set of cans is just the HE-6 in a fancier chassis. Funny how the HE-6 is no longer available for purchase and this puppy gets announced.

 

[bluesaint]

Ed6 sounded so good, it has to leapfrog over the HE1000v2 in pricing. $2000 will rub both HE1000 v1 and v2 owners the wrong way. 

This! I have my HE1000V2 for less than a month, if ed6 costs less or close to $3k all of us that paid$3k will demand heads roll

 

[Jozurr]

  I still have yet to hear a proper definition of "underpowered". Or why any old damn speaker amp is perfect for the HE-6. There's a great post on the forum-that-can't-be-named-due-to-fragile-egos just decimating the concept. It can't be that old speaker amps have a bunch of high-end rolloff - never! It's the fact that the HE-6 isn't "underpowered"!
 
EDIT: Imagine this set of cans is just the HE-6 in a fancier chassis. Funny how the HE-6 is no longer available for purchase and this puppy gets announced.

 
Let me see if I can explain.
 
The HE-6 are very power hungry: They require watts and high current and more so for swings. Generally most headphone amps have smaller power supplies than any decent speaker amp. Now, most headphone amps can drive the HE-6 to good volumes, what they don't provide is the control or current, which good speaker amps do, as speaker amps are designed for much bigger transducers, and considering HE-6 are very inefficient, they perform similarly.  Now when you drive the HE-6 from headphone amps and barely give them enough wattage, and not enough current, they are under powered; not under powered to mean they aren't loud enough, but to mean they are not getting the ideal power they need to shine. Now when they are under powered (as defined), they sound shrill and bright, with not enough control or slam in the bass. That is what happened when Tyll tried to run the HE-6 from the Teton and came to the conclusion he did.
 
Imagine high octane vs regular fuel. Both will drive the car and on both the cars will reach high speeds, but one of them gives the bigger engines the boost they require to accelerate faster.
 
It's really not about being a snob. The Anthem MCA20 that I currently have, which can be easily found used under $1K, drives the HE-6 better than any headphone amp I have tried (and I have tried many). I own the Ragnarok too so I've compared them side by side and concluded that it does not drive the HE-6 ideally, and it is more expensive than my Anthem. There are speaker amps like Bryston 2B which are even cheaper and drive the HE-6 better than headphone amps. When people own so many headphone amps, I don't understand why it's made to be a big deal that you add a speaker amp to the chain (which is much cheaper than a Ragnarok for example - you can add a speaker amp + schiit saga preamp easily under $1K). So if it's not about the money, why wouldn't you give the headphones they need? How is that being a snob/elite or whatever? Why would you spend so much more to get the best headphone amp when a cheaper speaker amp+preamp sounds better? I would understand if someone came to the conclusion that their headphone amp drives the HE-6 better than speaker amps, after having tried decent speaker amps which at least cost the same and are known to drive the HE-6 well, but why dismiss the idea when it's not about money at all and someone hasn't even heard a well driven HE-6?
 
Coming to a conclusion after trying it out is one thing, to dismiss the idea just because it's different and calling people snobs/elites etc is a different thing altogether. It doesn't hurt the wallet to try, it hurts the preconceived notions that are set about how anyone trying the HE-6 with speaker amps is somehow a snob.

 

[roskodan]

@Jozurr don't bother, they wont accept how things really are unless they hear it directly from Dr. Bian
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc5qRZnBGmM&feature=youtu.be&t=216

 

[thefitz]

   
Let me see if I can explain.
 
The HE-6 are very power hungry: They require watts and high current and more so for swings. Generally most headphone amps have smaller power supplies than any decent speaker amp. Now, most headphone amps can drive the HE-6 to good volumes, what they don't provide is the control or current, which good speaker amps do, as speaker amps are designed for much bigger transducers, and considering HE-6 are very inefficient, they perform similarly.  Now when you drive the HE-6 from headphone amps and barely give them enough wattage, and not enough current, they are under powered; not under powered to mean they aren't loud enough, but to mean they are not getting the ideal power they need to shine. Now when they are under powered (as defined), they sound shrill and bright, with not enough control or slam in the bass. That is what happened when Tyll tried to run the HE-6 from the Teton and came to the conclusion he did.
 
Imagine high octane vs regular fuel. Both will drive the car and on both the cars will reach high speeds, but one of them gives the bigger engines the boost they require to accelerate faster.
 
It's really not about being a snob. The Anthem MCA20 that I currently have, which can be easily found used under $1K, drives the HE-6 better than any headphone amp I have tried (and I have tried many). I own the Ragnarok too so I've compared them side by side and concluded that it does not drive the HE-6 ideally, and it is more expensive than my Anthem. There are speaker amps like Bryston 2B which are even cheaper and drive the HE-6 better than headphone amps. When people own so many headphone amps, I don't understand why it's made to be a big deal that you add a speaker amp to the chain (which is much cheaper than a Ragnarok for example - you can add a speaker amp + schiit saga preamp easily under $1K). So if it's not about the money, why wouldn't you give the headphones they need? How is that being a snob/elite or whatever? Why would you spend so much more to get the best headphone amp when a cheaper speaker amp+preamp sounds better? I would understand if someone came to the conclusion that their headphone amp drives the HE-6 better than speaker amps, after having tried decent speaker amps which at least cost the same and are known to drive the HE-6 well, but why dismiss the idea when it's not about money at all and someone hasn't even heard a well driven HE-6?
 
Coming to a conclusion after trying it out is one thing, to dismiss the idea just because it's different and calling people snobs/elites etc is a different thing altogether. It doesn't hurt the wallet to try, it hurts the preconceived notions that are set about how anyone trying the HE-6 with speaker amps is somehow a snob.

Now now, I never called anybody a snob! I just find it wild that HE-6 folks turn their noses at anything branded a headphone amp, but seem to accept literally any speaker amp. We'll leave 6moons and CNET saying the Lyr powered the HE-6 wonderfully alone. CNET convinced me to buy a Fostex TH500RP saying it's the best headphone in its price class, and 6moons says you need a replacement cable to make the HD800 sound good, so they can go to hell.
 
Now, I've heard "current" and "swings" in the context of speaker amps and the HE-6. I often hear "it's not just about wattage, you need current to serve up those swings!" or something to that effect. I'm totally down for that. Yet nobody seems willing to quantify it. It's crazy. Precisely how much current do you need to begin to do these puppies justice? Is there a current:wattage ratio we need to look out for? Surely there is, this can't be difficult. Surely "enough current" with 1500W is a bad match. And surely my skepticism isn't unreasonable given that I've never seen these figures.
 
P = I^2 / R is still a thing, yes?
 
I'm transfixed by the mystique that is the HE-6 and the culture that surrounds it.

 

[Jozurr]

 
Now now, I never called anybody a snob! I just find it wild that HE-6 folks turn their noses at anything branded a headphone amp, but seem to accept literally any speaker amp. We'll leave 6moons and CNET saying the Lyr powered the HE-6 wonderfully alone. CNET convinced me to buy a Fostex TH500RP saying it's the best headphone in its price class, and 6moons says you need a replacement cable to make the HD800 sound good, so they can go to hell.
 
Now, I've heard "current" and "swings" in the context of speaker amps and the HE-6. I often hear "it's not just about wattage, you need current to serve up those swings!" or something to that effect. I'm totally down for that. Yet nobody seems willing to quantify it. It's crazy. Precisely how much current do you need to begin to do these puppies justice? Is there a current:wattage ratio we need to look out for? Surely there is, this can't be difficult. Surely "enough current" with 1500W is a bad match. And surely my skepticism isn't unreasonable given that I've never seen these figures.
 
I'm transfixed by the mystique that is the HE-6 and the culture that surrounds it.

 
Generally most speaker amps have more wattage and current than cheaper headphone amps. HE-6 needs power and current, and therefore speaker amps are preferred. Now if we start getting into CNET reviews, then we won't get anywhere will we. Yes the LYR drives the HE6 to good volume. Volume alone isn't enough. If it was, then the Magni2Uber is all most headphones would need. There's a reason headphone+amp pairings are a thing. I will not get into the cable debate because it does not concern this topic at hand.
 
Try and explain this to me, what exactly is the problem in adding a cheap headphone amp+preamp, if it drives the HE-6 better than most headphone amps? At least in trying? You can conclude differently after trying and that would be fine. Why dismiss the idea?
 
Now current and wattage can not always be measured in the terms you need, like many other things. Some power supplies support double wattage when ohms are halved (see Krell), others can't, indicating weaker supplies (not always though). How about the quality of those watts then? How would you measure those? How about sound stage, can that be measured? These things can not be translated to measurements or numbers. What effect current has on a transducer can not be measured per se, but can only be known. It can only be tried and tested and concluded upon. A good way to know if a vintage amp is good or not, without knowing anything about it, is weight for example, which could possibly indicate a better power supply. It's not ideal but it's a method nonetheless. 
 
What I'm trying to say is, why not give it a shot and try it for yourself and conclude on it, rather than dismissing the idea? It's cheaper than getting a good headphone amp. I'm sure this isn't just a cult and people follow it blindly. If there are people who have actually tried both speaker and headphone amps, and concluded that headphone amps are better, that's a different argument of which headphone amp vs which speaker amp, but to dismiss the idea based solely on "Since HE6 are loud enough, the amp is good"? Would I just add a speaker amp in the chain when I own the Rag and the Liquid Glass (which both make the HE6 loud enough) and diminish SQ at my end, just to be part of the cult somehow?

 

[Voxata]

Hifiman is all about raising prices and putting out some insane dollar amounts on cans... I'm out

 

[roskodan]

Hifiman is all about raising prices and putting out some insane dollar amounts on cans... I'm out

 
u people oughta listen to ma bro here
 
@Jozurr @thefitz there is no point arguing about what amp you should use to drive a headphone u nevah gonna own in the first place, you feel me? you broken a** m****r screw**s
 
btw
 
@thefitz did you ever own a he6? or at least tried one? cos i'm curious what the set up was if u did, and what were your impressions?

 

[thefitz]

   
Generally most speaker amps have more wattage and current than cheaper headphone amps. HE-6 needs power and current, and therefore speaker amps are preferred. Now if we start getting into CNET reviews, then we won't get anywhere will we. Yes the LYR drives the HE6 to good volume. Volume alone isn't enough. If it was, then the Magni2Uber is all most headphones would need. There's a reason headphone+amp pairings are a thing. I will not get into the cable debate because it does not concern this topic at hand.
 
Try and explain this to me, what exactly is the problem in adding a cheap headphone amp+preamp, if it drives the HE-6 better than most headphone amps? At least in trying? You can conclude differently after trying and that would be fine. Why dismiss the idea?
 
Now current and wattage can not always be measured in the terms you need, like many other things. Some power supplies support double wattage when ohms are halved (see Krell), others can't, indicating weaker supplies (not always though). How about the quality of those watts then? How would you measure those? How about sound stage, can that be measured? These things can not be translated to measurements or numbers. What effect current has on a transducer can not be measured per se, but can only be known. It can only be tried and tested and concluded upon. A good way to know if a vintage amp is good or not, without knowing anything about it, is weight for example, which could possibly indicate a better power supply. It's not ideal but it's a method nonetheless. 
 
What I'm trying to say is, why not give it a shot and try it for yourself and conclude on it, rather than dismissing the idea? It's cheaper than getting a good headphone amp. I'm sure this isn't just a cult and people follow it blindly. If there are people who have actually tried both speaker and headphone amps, and concluded that headphone amps are better, that's a different argument of which headphone amp vs which speaker amp, but to dismiss the idea based solely on "Since HE6 are loud enough, the amp is good"? Would I just add a speaker amp in the chain when I own the Rag and the Liquid Glass (which both make the HE6 loud enough) and diminish SQ at my end, just to be part of the cult somehow?

To be clear - I totally get speaker amps having the best priceerformance ratio. Totally down. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I do assert that there are folks online that automatically say "no" to the prospect of a headphone amp powering an HE-6 while universally accepting any ol' stereo receiver (with emphasis on the "ol'", people give extra thumbs up if it's vintage) and I find that mind boggling. At no point am I dismissing it - I want to know why.
 
P = I^2 / R applies, no? R is a constant, so if P increases, I^2 increases.

 
Are we saying a speaker amp dishing out 4 watts with the volume knob at 10:00 serves out more current than a headphone amp dishing out 4 watts with the volume knob at 3:00? Surely the speaker amp is distorting less at 10:00 than a headphone amp at 3:00 (given P being constant). Then, we can blame distortion. But that ain't the claim.
 
If an HE-6 rocks through a speaker amp, why not use all headphones with a speaker amp? Where does the juju start, and where does it stop? Why does a speaker amp serving out the same power as a headphone amp at 50 ohms always seem to be the better match? Or would they perform identically, but the speaker amp would be much cheaper? I can live with that. But that ain't the claim either.
 
Now, I don't know how to quantify soundstage, but I do call "********" on the phrase "quality watts" (almost as far as I'm willing to say it's a term made up by HE-6 fanboys to hand-wave away skepticism like mine).
 
Would you add a speaker amp into your chain just to be part of a cult? You tell me. Would someone else? Maybe.
 
I'm sorry if I'm being annoying, but I just don't dig the answer "it just is, maaaaan" when people half-explain using science terms.