Amps are overated?

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Skylab, could ya stop wasting time posting on these threads and get those reviews out!! We need something to read!!

I'm spending this evening listening to my new V3 Darth Beyers on my HA-2 mkII/SE. At least until my kids go to bed and my wife makes me watch TV with her. Sorry, no reviewing tonight

 

[arnaud]

I'd buy that although hi-fi started when I was 12-13 years old for me! I was in an electronics store to get a basic boom box. On our way out of the store, we walked by the wall of speakers and such. Actually, the sound is what got me walking by there. I was shocked, it was the first time I'd listen to quality speakers I guess.

But indeed, it was only years later I could start to differentiate subtleties between amps, sources, and such (am now slightly over 3 decades and far from a fine ear...). So I guess, younger people get attracted to audio for rather "rough" outlines of hi-fidelity like how much bass, treble and such. Then it takes education, good quality recordings (and lots of money

unless you can pinpoint killer deals, DIY and such) to get to the more audiophile type of listening.

The funny part I think is that no matter how audiophile you and your system become, listening pleasure has IMO more to do with the recording and your mood at the time of listening than the gear you're using!

arnaud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's actually my suppostion. No offense to our younger members, but I believe that one learns to "listen" no nuances over the course of one's life, and that it may be that some of the younger head-fiers do not hear the difference that we older head-fiers do, simply because they have not yet learned to hear it. This is simply a matter of time spent listening, not inherent capability.

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm spending this evening listening to my new V3 Darth Beyers on my HA-2 mkII/SE. At least until my kids go to bed and my wife makes me watch TV with her. Sorry, no reviewing tonight

Ah, I feel your pain! Hope she doesn't make you watch HGTV marathons OR worse yet Bravo!

 

[Computerpro3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's actually my suppostion. No offense to our younger members, but I believe that one learns to "listen" no nuances over the course of one's life, and that it may be that some of the younger head-fiers do not hear the difference that we older head-fiers do, simply because they have not yet learned to hear it. This is simply a matter of time spent listening, not inherent capability.

I'm 18 and just about a year into this hobby. When I first started I swear to you that I couldn't tell the A/B difference between a $50 set of Numarks and my RS-1's, other than the fact that the RS-1's sounded a little bit "better". Now I can pick out all of the usual nuances such as tonality, soundstage, etc.

I firmly believe that listening attentively to music is like doing anything else attentively; you must train yourself how. I'm a classical pianist by training (and soon by trade, God willing) and the same theory applies there. A few years ago I thought I was damn good. Truth is that I had no idea how to listen to myself and analyze my playing. A few years experience and a wonderful teacher cleared that up and now I can swiftly and accurately identify both negative and positive nuances in my playing, ones that I had 100% no idea existed before.

When it comes to subtle things like isolating a particular feature of a complex passage of sound, it's much easier to notice if something is subtracted than added in my experience. When I first got my Melos, there wasn't much difference to my untrained ears compared to my PPA 2. A week later I switched back to the PPA and the sound was totally "off".

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, I have a theory I'd like to test. If you are willing, please post whether you think amps make a big difference, and your age. I'll start: Yes, and I'm 40.

Yes. I'm 34.

I build headphone amps, stereo amps and speakers. And I've been an amateur musician since I was 9. Amps absolutely make a difference and I clearly hear the difference between amps.

I have audiophile/serious music listener friends and family who listen to my gear. We all agree on the gear and how it sounds. Some like some gear better than others, but we're probably 95% on what each item sounds like and what each amp does.

There's no question that they make a huge difference.

 

[rean1mator]

Well when you really think about this you can't make a crappy source sound much better then it already is. the out put of the ipod is not so good so why would you think that adding another piece to the chain and feeding it a crappy signal would make the sound better?

buying 100+ dollar alo cable isn't going to make it sound better either.

i'm curious abou the rwa imod tho' as to how significant the increase in quality would be and then adding the tomahawk and nice cables to the mix.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's actually my suppostion. No offense to our younger members, but I believe that one learns to "listen" no nuances over the course of one's life, and that it may be that some of the younger head-fiers do not hear the difference that we older head-fiers do, simply because they have not yet learned to hear it. This is simply a matter of time spent listening, not inherent capability.

I'm just shy of 22, but I'm already beginning to wish I could "unlearn" some of the knowledge on how to hear these nuances. Sometimes it can get in the way of listening to the music.

And yes, I think that amps make a difference. Whether it's big or not depends on the individual situation, to me.

 

[rean1mator]

one other note.

i've done a/b testing with a tomahawk and without one using and m-audio transit and the difference in quality is fairly signitifcant.

it's barely noticeable when doing a/b comparison's with my ipod tho'.

 

[Pete7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rean1mator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well when you really think about this you can't make a crappy source sound much better then it already is. the out put of the ipod is not so good so why would you think that adding another piece to the chain and feeding it a crappy signal would make the sound better? buying 100+ dollar alo cable isn't going to make it sound better either. i'm curious abou the rwa imod tho' as to how significant the increase in quality would be and then adding the tomahawk and nice cables to the mix.

Because you use the line out from an Ipod (located on the bottom of the Ipod), not the headphone jack to connect to a headphone amp, which bypasses the headphone out and has a cleaner signal. If you connect to an amp via the headphone jack the results are minimal since you'd be amplifying a signal that has already been amplified. The Redwine imodded Ipod turns the headphone out into a dedicated line out and gets rid of crappy components in the signal path while using Black Gate caps in the output stage. The mod disables the line out function on the bottom of the Ipod while keeping charging and data transfer functionality.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's actually my suppostion. No offense to our younger members, but I believe that one learns to "listen" no nuances over the course of one's life, and that it may be that some of the younger head-fiers do not hear the difference that we older head-fiers do, simply because they have not yet learned to hear it. This is simply a matter of time spent listening, not inherent capability.

YES!
Most things can be learned to be heard.
90% of your hearing you do not with your ears, but with your brain. You can train it.

 

[goorackerelite]

I'm 24

I've been in a band for the past 10 years of my life and I've been developing my hearing, being able to distinguish the quality of a tone. I can honestly say that headphone amps do make a difference, good and bad! If they're used properly through a line out or a decent quality dac, you'll get some good results, otherwise they just color the sound of the standard headphone outputs while adding more distortion in the signal path. Some times the coloring of the sound is an addition of pleasing warmth characteristics, and soundstage expansion, and instrument seperation. However, the amp will not add anything which isn't an innate core sound signature of the source and the headphones in the equation.

 

[Lectorcito]

Wow! I've read the whole thread and I found it a VERY enjoyable and educative read. I think now I understand better this new hobby of mine. Great contributions, all of you.

 

[niftymatt]

I am responding to the OP and throwing my 2 cents in. Ok, first he mentions the Total Bithead. I've heard too many times people are like "Is it broken?" "This amp does nothing." I would not base any opinions off that. 2nd is the Tomahawk, it isn't a big amp and if you are amping anything more than IEMs then maybe you won't notice a difference. Different amps synergize with certain headphones. I can tell you amps make a difference. Both headphones I tried with my new amp I got yesterday I can tell a difference already. The bass is deeper and tighter.

My suggestion to everyone is that research the amp and see if the headphone you are going to use primarily with it will work. When searching type something like "e500 hornet" instead of just "hornet reviews." Then you will find out if the amp works with your headphones or not.

EDIT: Make sure you have good interconnects/cables and use a line-out whenever possible as the cables can and not amping the headphone input on a portable device can make a huge difference.

 

[Asr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm just shy of 22, but I'm already beginning to wish I could "unlearn" some of the knowledge on how to hear these nuances. Sometimes it can get in the way of listening to the music.

Heh, I feel exactly the same way sometimes. I've been listening far too critically to my components for so long (well 10-11 months feels like a long time for me), it's always difficult to just ease up and just listen to the music. Makes me wish I could go back in time.

25 here. IMO there are no "OMG IT'S HUGE!" differences between amps, unless maybe you're talking a CMOY versus a GS-1. As one who's been through a fair share of solid-state ones (full collection & history is in my profile), as far as I'm concerned, you have to be "listening" to the amp in order to hear the difference (or improvement), and even then, it's all up to perception. Moving to a GS-1 from a CMOY (for example) isn't going to do anything if your ears aren't trained so you can hear the difference.

 

[penguindude]

This thread is kinda stupid. Amps are obviously not overrated as some phones REQUIRE an amp to drive them properly. Although almost all decent headphones can benefit from amps, some are not necessary unless you are really into this hobby.