I plan on buying an Odyssey amp to audition against the Mjolnir but don't really want to be a guinea pig. Although I have a pretty good feeling about it based on research for the amp. Plus can use it to drive a set of Maggie's in the future also. 20W per channel into 45 ohms should have my LCD3s singing! If the Odyssey performs as I think it will it should be incredible competition for the headphone amps at twice to six times the price.
Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-3
- Thread starter Jian
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I plan on buying an Odyssey amp to audition against the Mjolnir but don't really want to be a guinea pig. Although I have a pretty good feeling about it based on research for the amp. Plus can use it to drive a set of Maggie's in the future also. 20W per channel into 45 ohms should have my LCD3s singing! If the Odyssey performs as I think it will it should be incredible competition for the headphone amps at twice to six times the price.
steve2151
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The vents on the Master 8 run across the middle of the amp, so I can actually fit 2 omega wood and 2 double arm headphone stands on top of it. I can get some exact measurements if you need them.
I have Snapple10's LCD-3 arriving from Preproman on Friday and will be hooking it up to my Reference 8/Master 8 stack. I'm expecting to be impressed, but I also have Spritzer's KGSS arriving late next week or the following week and need to figure out some way to stack it on top of the Master 8. Does anyone have riser suggestions? I'm thinking of gluing hockey pucks together, but will probably need about 6" of clearance since the M8 runs very hot.
preproman
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steve2151
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Don't tell me she was planning on buying that back from you. At least I left her with your other three headphones.
preproman
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Oh no. They never belonged to her. I'm the original owner. She just wanted to buy them as well.
steve2151
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Whoops, I misread her statement on your sale thread then. I'm going to do a comparison between the LCD-3/Master 8 and the SR007MKI/Spritzer's KGSS and see what shakes out.
I'm hoping the LCD-3 does a better job than the LCD-2. I felt the SR007MKI won that contest handily and it was only being amped with a SRM1/MK2 that time. The LCD-2 was running off an Apex Arete/Volcano.
lugnut
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The Odyssey is a great amp for speakers, however my Stratos Plus had just too much noise, to use for a headphone amp. I strongly suggest you try before you buy !
preproman
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Dubstep Girl
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Gary in MD
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Quote:
You aren't the first. I have been using an Odyssey Cyclops (same as the Khartago, but with a volume control) for several months. It was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY better than the Mjolnir. Not even close to the same league. It also costs more -- at least if you buy all of the upgrades like I did. Final cost with the upgrades was $1295 delivered. A similarly configured Khartago would be $1195. MJ is more like $800 delivered. But if you want full bodied but extremely detailed and lifelike sound, the Odyssey amp is worth every penny extra.
Quote:
Odyssey has a 30-day trial period, so while he has to pay for the amp up front, he can return it for a full refund (no restocking fee like Schiit charges). What noise were you hearing with the Stratos Plus? I have a totally black background with the Cyclops using a balanced speaker tap to feed the LCD-3s.
undersys
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I'd love to hear how the LCD3/Master 8 go. I am considering it or the GS-X , but maybe more to the Master 8.
This is the idea here, if you don't use balanced, you'll get noise...
With the Stratos Plus it looks like we're talking about a 150 watt per channel into 8 ohm, this is HUGE, way too much, a SE cable won't manage it.
I'd buy but really either way here, you're losing tons of money if you're buying, you have to pay back postage if you don't like it - It's a deal breaker. I'd get them out of you recommendation you're saying you're getting summit-fi sound, I am not saying you're lying, but it might just not be what I will hear, and the 100+ watt (Whatever it was) is still way too much on the cyclops. I should try something less powerful first see if it's still all about the watt into the phones.
Gary in MD
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First, why would you use a SE cable when the LCD-3s are inherently balanced and even come with a balanced cable, though of course there are lots of aftermarket balanced cables available as well?
Second, it isn't about watts into phones, it's about amp design. The TBI Millenia requires a resistor box to reduce the noise floor because it is a class-D chip amp designed to work only with speakers. By adding a resistor circuit in a separate box specialized for the headphones to be used, the amp's designer, Jan Plummer, has provided a relatively simple and inexpensive way to eliminate the audible noise for a number of different cans, including the LCD-3s and the HD-800s. He creates different circuit designs for SE vs. balanced setups, and they work. Repeat: with the resistor box there is no audible noise with this 32-wpc amp, and the total cost of the system is $600 delivered to the US. It is also tiny, so return shipping should be reasonable, particularly within the US, but perhaps even from Israel though I haven't checked those rates.
With the Cyclops feeding my LCDs via the stock balanced cables there is no audible noise even without a resistor box. None. Moreover, the power available is totally irrelevant as long as the volume is controllable, and it is easily controllable on this amp. I listen to everything from old rock recordings to jazz to classical to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and have no problems modulating the volume to fit the recording. Could I blow the headphone transducers if I crank it all the way? Yeah. Would it be really stupid to do that? Yeah.
The LCD-3s are rated for 12 wpc into 45 ohms. The Cyclops can put about 20 wpc into that resistance before clipping. This isn't that huge a difference, and for a large portion of the volume dial, the amp is not putting out anywhere near the cans' limit. At their limit, the LCDs are pumping out 120dBs, enough to deafen a person pretty quickly. If you are even reasonably careful, or not already deaf, this is just not a real problem.
I understand folks being cautious about this, because I was in the same boat a few months back. But after an e-mail exchange with Audeze, discussions with Jan Plummer of TBI and Klaus Bunge of Odyssey, plus some back and forth with the folks on the speaker amps thread, I took the plunge and did a comparison of speaker amps vs. the MJ and Soloist. I'm extremely happy that I did, because I found amps that I liked much better than the headamps, for very reasonable prices (the Millenia is an absolute bargain).
I recognize that speaker amps aren't the right solution for everybody, particularly for cans that don't have the power-handling capabilities of orthos like the LCDs. But if you have LCDs, and you want them to perform optimally, you need to at least consider a speaker amp: there are a lot more of them out there at all price ranges than there are headphone amps, because the audiophile speaker market is still so much larger than the market for high-end cans. Not all speaker amps work well with the LCD-3s (I didn't like the Emotiva Mini-X at all... but it's a $200 amp). However, I know at least 2 that do work well, at least for me.
My recommendation is not that everybody should just use speaker amps instead of head amps. It is that everybody using orthos, or even HD-800s, should open their minds to the possibility that there is a speaker amp out there that will meet their needs better than the headamps available and/or at a better price. In my view, LCD-3 owners owe it to themselves to at least consider, if not try, some of the available speaker amps.
Second, it isn't about watts into phones, it's about amp design. The TBI Millenia requires a resistor box to reduce the noise floor because it is a class-D chip amp designed to work only with speakers. By adding a resistor circuit in a separate box specialized for the headphones to be used, the amp's designer, Jan Plummer, has provided a relatively simple and inexpensive way to eliminate the audible noise for a number of different cans, including the LCD-3s and the HD-800s. He creates different circuit designs for SE vs. balanced setups, and they work. Repeat: with the resistor box there is no audible noise with this 32-wpc amp, and the total cost of the system is $600 delivered to the US. It is also tiny, so return shipping should be reasonable, particularly within the US, but perhaps even from Israel though I haven't checked those rates.
With the Cyclops feeding my LCDs via the stock balanced cables there is no audible noise even without a resistor box. None. Moreover, the power available is totally irrelevant as long as the volume is controllable, and it is easily controllable on this amp. I listen to everything from old rock recordings to jazz to classical to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and have no problems modulating the volume to fit the recording. Could I blow the headphone transducers if I crank it all the way? Yeah. Would it be really stupid to do that? Yeah.
The LCD-3s are rated for 12 wpc into 45 ohms. The Cyclops can put about 20 wpc into that resistance before clipping. This isn't that huge a difference, and for a large portion of the volume dial, the amp is not putting out anywhere near the cans' limit. At their limit, the LCDs are pumping out 120dBs, enough to deafen a person pretty quickly. If you are even reasonably careful, or not already deaf, this is just not a real problem.
I understand folks being cautious about this, because I was in the same boat a few months back. But after an e-mail exchange with Audeze, discussions with Jan Plummer of TBI and Klaus Bunge of Odyssey, plus some back and forth with the folks on the speaker amps thread, I took the plunge and did a comparison of speaker amps vs. the MJ and Soloist. I'm extremely happy that I did, because I found amps that I liked much better than the headamps, for very reasonable prices (the Millenia is an absolute bargain).
I recognize that speaker amps aren't the right solution for everybody, particularly for cans that don't have the power-handling capabilities of orthos like the LCDs. But if you have LCDs, and you want them to perform optimally, you need to at least consider a speaker amp: there are a lot more of them out there at all price ranges than there are headphone amps, because the audiophile speaker market is still so much larger than the market for high-end cans. Not all speaker amps work well with the LCD-3s (I didn't like the Emotiva Mini-X at all... but it's a $200 amp). However, I know at least 2 that do work well, at least for me.
My recommendation is not that everybody should just use speaker amps instead of head amps. It is that everybody using orthos, or even HD-800s, should open their minds to the possibility that there is a speaker amp out there that will meet their needs better than the headamps available and/or at a better price. In my view, LCD-3 owners owe it to themselves to at least consider, if not try, some of the available speaker amps.
potterma
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Eloquent as always, Gary!
mowglycdb
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Bought the Master-8, I'll compare it to the NFB-6, will probably arrive en less than 2 weeks.
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