[theeviljesus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've had the opportunity to plug my Senn HD580s into a roomful of Pioneer Elite, Denon and high-end Yamaha AV receivers, where DAC, amp and much more are integrated into a single component, and I suspect that most Head-Fi users wouldn't be able to consistently ID them from their own rigs in blind AB/X testing. Even the mid-priced Yamahas are pretty remarkable, perhaps the best unknown buy in headphone listening. I can't really tell you why they sound so good. Perhaps they've paid special attention to the impedance output of their HP jack because they want to maximize their proprietary (and excellent) HP surround simulation, "Silent Cinema." Perhaps it is because their "Pure Direct" switch delivers such a clean signal. Then again, if I plugged a pair of low-impedance phones into one of them, perhaps it would sound bad. Who knows? Someone want to send me a pair of Denons so I can try it out? Tim

Thats quite interesting. I also own a mid-priced Yamaha receiver (RX-V659), unfortunately I can't really comment on it with a good signal since I don't have a DAC yet to feed it (it has no USB input and feeding it from my mp3-player/notebook-HP-out is probably not the best solution

)

@Kraps

good argument about limited space. Fortunately I have plenty of space in my room

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeviljesus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats quite interesting. I also own a mid-priced Yamaha receiver (RX-V659), unfortunately I can't really comment on it with a good signal since I don't have a DAC yet to feed it (it has no USB input and feeding it from my mp3-player/notebook-HP-out is probably not the best solution ) @Kraps good argument about limited space. Fortunately I have plenty of space in my room

What I'm saying is that I don't think you need the DAC. You do, however, need a digital out. All of my listening to these receivers has been from a CD player feeding a digital signal to the receiver. The receiver is doing the digital to analog conversion. A DAC in line would defeat the purpose.

Tim

 

[theeviljesus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I'm saying is that I don't think you need the DAC. You do, however, need a digital out. All of my listening to these receivers has been from a CD player feeding a digital signal to the receiver. The receiver is doing the digital to analog conversion. A DAC in line would defeat the purpose. Tim

Ah I get it. I actually thought about a USBtoSPDIF (HagUSB or something ) because I don't have a cdp...I haven't come to a decision yet (was afraid it would be a weak link)

I considered buying the North Star m192 in the FS section, but it's gone anyway...would have been quite more expensive then I intended to pay first...but I always end up buying pricier stuff

Maybe I'll go with one of these FallenAngel recommended me (for feeding the North Star but should work with the Yamaha or later upgrades as well..has USB input and I2S or S/PDIF output):

Twisted Pear Audio USB Receiver Module

anyone tried this?

sorry about the OT...couldnt resist asking

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeviljesus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah I get it. I actually thought about a USBtoSPDIF (HagUSB or something ) because I don't have a cdp...I haven't come to a decision yet (was afraid it would be a weak link) I considered buying the North Star m192 in the FS section, but it's gone anyway...would have been quite more expensive then I intended to pay first...but I always end up buying pricier stuff Maybe I'll go with one of these FallenAngel recommended me (for feeding the North Star but should work with the Yamaha or later upgrades as well..has USB input and I2S or S/PDIF output): Twisted Pear Audio USB Receiver Module anyone tried this? sorry about the OT...couldnt resist asking

You don't have a cdp? So is a computer your source? Mine too. I use a Trends UD-10. It converts USB to multiple digital outs including coax, optical and AES. Works great and seems to add nothing to the signal, certainly no noise. By the way, I suspect that few on Head-Fi would agree with my contention that an inexpensive Yamaha AV receiver makes a great headphone amp, but you don't have to take my word for it. You can carry your phones to any Circuit City or Best Buy and listen for yourself. Let me know what you think.

Tim

 

[theeviljesus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't have a cdp? So is a computer your source? Mine too. I use a Trends UD-10. It converts USB to multiple digital outs including coax, optical and AES. Works great and seems to add nothing to the signal, certainly no noise. By the way, I suspect that few on Head-Fi would agree with my contention that an inexpensive Yamaha AV receiver makes a great headphone amp, but you don't have to take my word for it. You can carry your phones to any Circuit City or Best Buy and listen for yourself. Let me know what you think. Tim

Yes the notebook is my only source (except for mp3 player I wouldn't use for a home rig

). The Trends UD-10 seems interesting to me. If I understand it right, the Trends is there to feed a receiver or DAC which has no USB in (like the Twisted Pear Audio USB Receiver Module I asked about). Well it's definitely on my list now

Will do a search about it compared to similar products. Do you have experience with alternatives?

Concerning the Yamaha / Denon receivers I cannot compare to dedicated HP amps because I never had one. When I was looking for my cans I tested some Denon D2000 in a shop with a upper class Denon receiver...certainly sounded fine! But as I mendioned I have no reference. I'll let you know when I'm able to have a good signal input for my receiver.

 

[Maniac]

If you have the room, separate units, if not, combo units. Note that separate unit will take up 3 to 4 times the room (not 2) because you need to route stiff audio cables from unit to unit and not overbending the cable.

 

[riceboy]

I've owned combined and separate and I much prefer separate as well

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeviljesus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I considered buying the North Star m192 in the FS section, but it's gone anyway...would have been quite more expensive then I intended to pay first...but I always end up buying pricier stuff

LOL, yes, to me! I saw that and thought: "That's the price of my Lavry, I can't say no!".

That being said... The two combined units I've used, a cheap Zero DAC/HP amp and the Lavry DA-10 (at 10x the price) have both decent HP amps built in (for their price!). I recall a few people satisfied with the Lavry by itself for use with the yet more expensive Ultrasone Edition 9s, which says something about the HP amp built in to it. However, adding an amp into the chain with both DACs resulted in a significant improvement, first in soundstage and separation (when I was using the Zero and LD MKV) and in control/PRAT (with the Lavry and C2C).

The nice thing is, in both cases (and you can add other devices such as the Benchmark DAC1 to this list) with these combo DACs, you just later add a high-quality amp into the chain of your choice as is most suitable for your headphones.

 

[theeviljesus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL, yes, to me! I saw that and thought: "That's the price of my Lavry, I can't say no!". That being said... The two combined units I've used, a cheap Zero DAC/HP amp and the Lavry DA-10 (at 10x the price) have both decent HP amps built in (for their price!). I recall a few people satisfied with the Lavry by itself for use with the yet more expensive Ultrasone Edition 9s, which says something about the HP amp built in to it. However, adding an amp into the chain with both DACs resulted in a significant improvement, first in soundstage and separation (when I was using the Zero and LD MKV) and in control/PRAT (with the Lavry and C2C). The nice thing is, in both cases (and you can add other devices such as the Benchmark DAC1 to this list) with these combo DACs, you just later add a high-quality amp into the chain of your choice as is most suitable for your headphones.

Congratulation on your purchase! Somehow it's nice to have more time thinking about spending so much money...thank you

Some impressions of the North Star (comparing your Lavry) would be nice! Just don't tempt me to buy your Lavry, please

And please pm me if you sell your North Star

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Yes the notebook is my only source (except for mp3 player I wouldn't use for a home rig ). The Trends UD-10 seems interesting to me. If I understand it right, the Trends is there to feed a receiver or DAC which has no USB in (like the Twisted Pear Audio USB Receiver Module I asked about). Well it's definitely on my list now

Yes you have the gist of the UD-10. It also has a basic (16-bit) Burr-Brown USB DAC built into it, though access is only through a line-level mini headphone jack. Still, split to two RCAs and fed into the back of an amp, it sounds very good. It's a very well designed little box with separate digital and analog runs and either USB or dedicated battery power supply (an extra $18).

Tim

 

[AudioPhewl]

Combined units do have their place. The Zero DAC, for example, combines a very good DAC for the money, with a headphone amplifier that's certainly good enough for you to enjoy the experience. It would be beaten by 2 very good separate devices, but it's a sound starting-point for anyone looking to enjoy good quality music.

As a general rule, separates are virtually always the best in pure terms of quality. But that doesn't mean combined units should be overlooked, especially at the lower end of quality equipment.

~Phewl.

 

[orkney]

I love my balanced DAC/amp combo but, having invested in a tube amp for my offic system, I've love to be able to detach the DAC section and take it with me, sort of like those crappy modular boomboxes of yore that had the detachable walkman decks. If I were doing it all over I'd have gone for separates, though the all-in-ones have their advantages: compact size, guaranteed compatibility, one fewer IC, etc.

best,

o

 

[theeviljesus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes you have the gist of the UD-10. It also has a basic (16-bit) Burr-Brown USB DAC built into it, though access is only through a line-level mini headphone jack. Still, split to two RCAs and fed into the back of an amp, it sounds very good. It's a very well designed little box with separate digital and analog runs and either USB or dedicated battery power supply (an extra $18). Tim

Thanks for the info. Also found this while search infos on the UD-10: M-Audio Transit
Even has up to 24/96 support - but that's not the main criterion for me

found this in another thread:
Quote:

Originally Posted by decur /img/forum/go_quote.gif i have the ud-10 ,and it really does a fantastic job cleaning up computer noise/jitter!! ive owned the hagusb imo it does not come close to the ud-10! the ud-10 is much quieter. the dac in the ud-10 on the other hand is fair at best! its best suited for soundcard duty!

so I think I can at least forget about the HagUSB

 

[kboe]

I absolutely prefer separate units. When was the last time you heard of a good toaster-cellphone combo. My view is that people tend to do better designing on thing at a time, when you combine functions there are usually compromises.
Kevin

 

[athenaesword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Combined units do have their place. The Zero DAC, for example, combines a very good DAC for the money, with a headphone amplifier that's certainly good enough for you to enjoy the experience. It would be beaten by 2 very good separate devices, but it's a sound starting-point for anyone looking to enjoy good quality music. As a general rule, separates are virtually always the best in pure terms of quality. But that doesn't mean combined units should be overlooked, especially at the lower end of quality equipment. ~Phewl.

so around what kind of price range would you say that it starts getting more worth it getting separate dac/amps instead of say a Zero?