[csglinux]

Is the issue software related? Can't be hardware can it?

Not hardware related. Amazon just didn't put any care or attention into its Android app.

 

[CANiSLAYu]

Not hardware related. Amazon just didn't put any care or attention into its Android app.

That's not true. It's an Android issue as Android SRC limits all output systemwide.

To have anything higher you need an app like USB Audio Player Pro that bypasses the SRC and an external DAC.

 

[clerkpalmer]

That's not true. It's an Android issue as Android SRC limits all output systemwide.

To have anything higher you need an app like USB Audio Player Pro that bypasses the SRC and an external DAC.

Is usb audio player does it, can't Amazon do it? Or is it not that simple? Edit my bad, nevermind. I see the need for the dac.

 

[csglinux]

That's not true. It's an Android issue as Android SRC limits all output systemwide.

To have anything higher you need an app like USB Audio Player Pro that bypasses the SRC and an external DAC.

What you're saying is incorrect. Most Android DAPs are perfectly capable of by-passing the 48-kHz Android mixer. As are the entire LG range of quad-DAC smartphones: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/ They are able to do this with hi-res files (anything 24-bit) without the need of UAPP.

Amazon's app is not even using Android's mixer. You can check it for yourself with audio_flinger. Amazon is intentionally limiting the sample rate.

 

[CANiSLAYu]

Is usb audio player does it, can't Amazon do it? Or is it not that simple? Edit my bad, nevermind. I see the need for the dac.

Not sure how difficult it is to code, but my gut tells me this is one of the spots where Android fragmentation comes into play. This chart is from August 2018 when Android 9 was launched, but still illustrates the point:



Also there are hundreds of phone/tablet manufacturers running various Android implementations with hundreds of different Built in DACs. I think limiting to 16/48 is just playing to the lowest common denominator.

Then lastly I think the segment of the population that actually cares and will attach an external DAC to their phone is infinitesimal, so I imagine there’s a cost/benefit component as well.

I just think it’s false to say Amazon doesn’t care because of this Android issue because every other streaming service has this same limitation.

 

[CANiSLAYu]

What you're saying is incorrect. Most Android DAPs are perfectly capable of by-passing the 48-kHz Android mixer. As are the entire LG range of quad-DAC smartphones: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/ They are able to do this with hi-res files (anything 24-bit) without the need of UAPP.

Amazon's app is not even using Android's mixer. You can check it for yourself with audio_flinger. Amazon is intentionally limiting the sample rate.

Yes and same with Astell&Kern, et al, with modified Android OSes, but they’re modifying the core OS to run on their specific hardware, not the individual apps.

 

[csglinux]

Yes and same with Astell&Kern, et al, with modified Android OSes, but they’re modifying the core OS to run on their specific hardware, not the individual apps.

I'm sure most people are aware of that. I don't think anybody's expecting Amazon to give them 192 kHz playback on hardware that's incapable of ever playing back 192 kHz.
We're talking about Android DAPs, phones, etc., that are otherwise perfectly capable of playing sample rates higher than 48 kHz, but Amazon's music app is specifically prohibiting that. Thus, it is a software (Amazon) issue. Not a hardware issue.

 

[csglinux]

I just think it’s false to say Amazon doesn’t care because of this Android issue because every other streaming service has this same limitation.

That also isn't true. Tidal, Qobuz, etc., are perfectly capable of playing hi-res files back on Android devices.

Either Amazon doesn't care, or they're incompetent. Take your pick.

 

[rkw]

Tidal, Qobuz, etc., are perfectly capable of playing hi-res files back on Android devices.

Who are the "etc" (among streaming services)?

 

[csglinux]

Who are the "etc" (among streaming services)?

I'm not aware of other services (yet) that go beyond 44 kHz, but services like Deezer at least give bit-perfect CD quality. Amazon doesn't even give you that, because it's up-sampling everything - on every single platform at launch. IMHO, that's a far bigger problem than not going beyond 44 kHz. I'd be a happy camper with bit-perfect red-book FLAC, but Amazon doesn't even give you that.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Thanks - interesting about a lack of ultra HD for android. Seems like a major misfire particularly since I would imagine the vast majority of subscribers will be using android.

On my LG V30 amazon app shows device capabilities as 24/48 and outputs at that rate. Unless your device OS is pretty old it should work.
https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011

Which Android devices support Amazon Music HD?
Most Android devices released since 2014 can support HD/Ultra HD playback (up to 48kHz). Please ensure that your device is running on Android Lollipop, or later.

At this time Amazon Music HD is not supported on Chromecast.

On Windows desktop side, after matching shared mode sample rate with the track, the quality is indistinguishable from Qobuz running in ASIO, ASIO just a tiny bit louder. Using Auralic external USB DAC.
Flipping sample rate is a hassle though, hope exclusive bit-perfect mode is on the way. At least customer rep response sounded promising.

 

[mixman]

Would love for some Roon integration, but I doubt that will ever happen. As mentioned, the user base is way too small for them to care about Roon, which is why I am going to stick with Tidal for now.......Qobuz....not too sure about.

 

[Left Channel]

Is the issue software related? Can't be hardware can it?

Thanks - interesting about a lack of ultra HD for android. Seems like a major misfire particularly since I would imagine the vast majority of subscribers will be using android.

It's software, and it's not just Android and Windows. Quoting myself here:

Many of the above impressions may be improved if loudness normalization is turned off. But the Amazon app also does not get around various kinds of system resampling even when an external DAC or the LG internal Quad DAC is available. The specifics are different across Android, iOS, Windows, and macOS, but in all or most situations the result in resampling, sometimes upsampling but in other cases downsampling.

On phones this includes resampling of the signal sent to external DACs and even high-end internal DACs, and no third-party apps yet have access to the Amazon API to help us find a way around this problem. On desktops the apps don't allow you to select anything but the main system audio, so no options like ASIO or exclusive, and there's no integration with third-party player apps possible there yet either.

This only makes sense when one considers that Amazon's main competitors in this space are Apple Music and Spotify. Many say it sounds better than those services. But it appears most Qobuz and Tidal users remain unimpressed.

 

[Left Channel]

On my LG V30 amazon app shows device capabilities as 24/48 and outputs at that rate. Unless your device OS is pretty old it should work.
https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011


On Windows desktop side, after matching shared mode sample rate with the track, the quality is indistinguishable from Qobuz running in ASIO, ASIO just a tiny bit louder. Using Auralic external USB DAC.
Flipping sample rate is a hassle though, hope exclusive bit-perfect mode is on the way. At least customer rep response sounded promising.

On Windows many of us hear a clear improvement from Qobuz in ASIO or WASAPI.On a high-end phone like the LG V30, it's a crying shame that the Amazon app can't make use of the Quad DAC and instead lets the stream get resampled to the Android system limitation of 24/48. On the same phone, many hear a clear difference because the Tidal app does that correctly for MQA, and the UAPP app does that correctly for all streams from Tidal and Qobuz.

Not everyone can hear these differences though, and if you can't consider yourself lucky! This will benefit your wallet in the long run.

 

[exdmd]

On my LG V30 amazon app shows device capabilities as 24/48 and outputs at that rate. Unless your device OS is pretty old it should work.
https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011


On Windows desktop side, after matching shared mode sample rate with the track, the quality is indistinguishable from Qobuz running in ASIO, ASIO just a tiny bit louder. Using Auralic external USB DAC.
Flipping sample rate is a hassle though, hope exclusive bit-perfect mode is on the way. At least customer rep response sounded promising.

I am using Qobuz streamed through Audirvana+ which uses Wasapi exclusive mode. I went to the trouble of setting the sample rate and bit depth for a few tracks played in Amazon Music HD in Windows mixer, then did a quick comparison to the same tracks played through Audirvana+. I can hear a difference, mainly in sound stage width and depth and imaging in favor of bit perfect through Audirvana+. This was on 16/44 and 24/192 files. Amazon Music HD really needs Wasapi exclusive mode. Maybe we see it, time will tell.