Am I (sonically) blind

[gregorio]

24fps is considered slow. It may be a standard set by cinemas, but gamers seek response times of under 5ms (and over 144hz screens).

Which is relatively massive compared to aural timing acuity. Even many untrained listeners can discern 500 nano secs of timing inaccuracy (jitter) with music.

So maybe not a direct 1 to 1 comparison, but there could also be other similarities when it comes to recording.

500 nano secs is 10,000 times less than 5ms, I personally wouldn’t call that a “similarity”!

G

 

[Davesrose]

Which is relatively massive compared to aural timing acuity. Even many untrained listeners can discern 500 nano secs of timing inaccuracy (jitter) with music.

500 nano secs is 10,000 times less than 5ms, I personally wouldn’t call that a “similarity”!

G

Way to take my post out of context, and miss all my points.

 

[gregorio]

Way to take my post out of context, and miss all my points.

You mean the context that I set and that you were responding to?!

G

 

[Davesrose]

You mean the context that I set and that you were responding to?!

G

That you take "similarities" out of context (maybe because you're so used to forming your own convoluted replies/outlines?). I corrected that 24fps is not a perceptual limit of human vision (rather it's been quite arbitrary). And "similarities" were clearly referring to recording mediums needing to be different parameters than a given perceptual instance.

 

[sonitus mirus]

I’m currently trying to decide between the Modius and Bifrost or pair with my Jot 2. Using it with my HD800S and Z1R and the forum swears that there is a large difference between the 2.

I am willing to spend the extra if there is a noticeably better difference but I’m not sure if it’s snake oil.

As far as DACs go, the Modius measures better. It measures better than my $1000 RME ADI-2 DAC FS in overall SINAD. It is audibly transparent by a significant margin. Looks like a wonderful product. If it has the connections, features, and aesthetics that will work with your particular setup, save yourself some money as you won't find anything that would make a noticeable audible difference with regards to fidelity.

 

[inseconds99]

As far as DACs go, the Modius measures better. It measures better than my $1000 RME ADI-2 DAC FS in overall SINAD. It is audibly transparent by a significant margin. Looks like a wonderful product. If it has the connections, features, and aesthetics that will work with your particular setup, save yourself some money as you won't find anything that would make a noticeable audible difference with regards to fidelity.

Is SINAD the only measurement to determine sound equality for a Dac? No other measurements would effect the sound? I understand the Dac has low distortion and noise but could the Dac not have a “house sound”?

 

[sonitus mirus]

Is SINAD the only measurement to determine sound equality for a Dac? No other measurements would effect the sound? I understand the Dac has low distortion and noise but could the Dac not have a “house sound”?

A DAC should not have a "sound" signature of any type. The purpose of such a product is to convert a digital signal to an analog signal. There exists an analog stage with every DAC, but these rarely make any audible difference unless there is a fault with the unit under test. Also, a DAC can utilize filters for digital response that might alter the tonal characteristics on paper; though, in practice, and especially with regards to the chip used in the Modius, these would be difficult to identify between one and another.

The fact that the Modius and Bifrost share the same analog stage for balanced output and were designed by the same people, there is no excuse for there to be any major differences of any significance unless it is intentionally built into the design. I would not expect that from Schitt. The Modius' AKM DAC IC AK4493 is an absolutely awesome modern piece of audio technology.

Here are some measurements and comments about the Modius.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modius-balanced-dac-review.13769/

 

[inseconds99]

A DAC should not have a "sound" signature of any type. The purpose of such a product is to convert a digital signal to an analog signal. There exists an analog stage with every DAC, but these rarely make any audible difference unless there is a fault with the unit under test. Also, a DAC can utilize filters for digital response that might alter the tonal characteristics on paper; though, in practice, and especially with regards to the chip used in the Modius, these would be difficult to identify between one and another.

The fact that the Modius and Bifrost share the same analog stage for balanced output and were designed by the same people, there is no excuse for there to be any major differences of any significance unless it is intentionally built into the design. I would not expect that from Schitt. The Modius' AKM DAC IC AK4493 is an absolutely awesome modern piece of audio technology.

Here are some measurements and comments about the Modius.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modius-balanced-dac-review.13769/

I appreciate this info. Was just curious about the Dac technology in the mobius and the multibit Dac in the bifrost and how they would differ. Likely going to go mobius

 

[The Jester]

Which is relatively massive compared to aural timing acuity. Even many untrained listeners can discern 500 nano secs of timing inaccuracy (jitter) with music.

500 nano secs is 10,000 times less than 5ms, I personally wouldn’t call that a “similarity”!

G

And also with vision the two eyes viewing from a slightly different angle gives the brain a perception of “3D” where the two ears give the brain a perception of the location of a sound source, and that’s supposedly anything less than 4ms difference of the sound arriving at each ear is perceived as “straight ahead”, which is way faster than a human reflex response time and around the same as a 60fps video …
Maybe back to our ancestors where a large animal snapping a twig off to the left has the body moving to the right before you even see it ? Lol

 

[gregorio]

That you take "similarities" out of context

Why wouldn’t I take the context that I set and you were responding to?

(maybe because you're so used to forming your own convoluted replies/outlines?).

My own replies are not convoluted, quite the opposite, they’re as short/simple as possible, without omitting necessary info.

I corrected that 24fps is not a perceptual limit of human vision (rather it's been quite arbitrary). And "similarities" were clearly referring to recording mediums needing to be different parameters than a given perceptual instance.

It doesn’t matter whether the perceptual limit is 24fps, 144fps or something else, it’s still a fundamentally different technology based on fooling the eyes due to their limited time resolution. Even at 144fps, it’s a set of stills/frames that each last about 7ms which is a short enough time period to fool the eyes into perceiving continuous motion. This is fundamentally different to how we hear and how audio recording works! We have aural time resolution roughly 2 million times more acute than 7ms and we do not record and reproduce X number of stills/frames per second in order to fool the ears, we record and reproduce actual continuous motion.

G

 

[bigshot]

There really isn't any point arguing against semantic arguments. It just gets more removed from anything useful. When stuff starts to drift into stuff that's more personality than communication, I try to either disconnect, or just state what I already said simpler and clearer. I totally understand what you said Davesrose. The lurkers are the real audience here and I'm sure they understood too.

 

[gregorio]

There really isn't any point arguing against semantic arguments.

That obviously depends on what the semantics argument is. In the case of our disagreement, there is a very important point. The audiophile world likes to separate the world into subjectivists and objectivists and most audiophile marketing relies on deliberately confusing when and where subjectivity (perception) and objectivity (accurate discernment/measurements) are applicable.

It just gets more removed from anything useful.

I would argue that on this and similar sites, there is hardly anything more useful. Even though many audiophiles don’t want to listen to anything that questions their marketing induced delusions.

G

 

[bigshot]

Haha... you just proved my point! You went from a specific discussion that involved information passing from one person to another to a general conclusion that invites no discussion.

But my comment is also a comment about comments and pointless too... Anything else to talk about?

 

[gregorio]

Haha... you just proved my point! You went from a specific discussion that involved information passing from one person to another to a general conclusion that invites no discussion.

I didn’t “went from” anywhere to somewhere else, I’m still discussing our “specific discussion” and it’s ramifications! Where did you “went”?

G

 

[bigshot]

tag! you're it!