Am I (sonically) blind

[gregorio]

Namely this single place (SS) acts as a place to refute all marketing.

Of course it doesn’t. It often acts as a place to refute false marketing but not all marketing. Although it might sometimes seem like all marketing because so many audiophile products are based on false marketing.

So (SS) is going to tell you that amps, cables all sound the same and it’s marketing placebo if we hear a difference.

Not sure why you keep repeating that falsehood, even after being corrected so many times. Again, the vast majority do sound the same but there are conditions and exceptions.

What I am saying is explore. There is no risk in finding out they are right or wrong. Only personal enlightenment is in question here.

Yes there is a risk in “finding out they are right or wrong” and one of those risks is confusing “personal enlightenment” with placebo and self-delusion! Unfortunately, many audiophiles don’t even consider the possibility of self-delusion and therefore can’t believe anything other than that they are “enlightened”, regardless of the proven facts.

Simply get out Try new DAPs, Cables and IEMs. Try a new amp. Truly you have nothing to lose except effort and time!

And money and your sense of reality and your critical thinking abilities.

[1] I’m not even bringing up the question of cables or amps doing anything. [2] Reason being it actually is not proven one way or another. [3] We can’t test everything. We can test a lot of parameters but not everything.

1. But you just have.
2. Actually, it could hardly be more proven!
3. Of course we can test everything, it’s not even that difficult. Cables and amps are just outputting a relatively simple signal that we’ve been able to measure for a century or more. And, as digital audio is itself a measurement, if we can’t measure it, then we can’t record or reproduce it and obviously you can’t hear it.

If we could test everything we wouldn’t actually need to listen to stuff. I sure hope your not referring to him not getting out and simply listening to gear? That would be ludicrous!

What would be ludicrous is listening to different stuff that measures within a tiny fraction of a dB and believing you could hear that difference!

G

 

[old tech]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis



Right, the question is he doesn’t hear and difference from the small “test” group of IEMs. I’m not even bringing up the question of cables or amps doing anything. Reason being it actually is not proven one way or another. We can’t test everything. We can test a lot of parameters but not everything.

If we could test everything we wouldn’t actually need to listen to stuff. I sure hope your not referring to him not getting out and simply listening to gear? That would be ludicrous!

I think you're mistaking null hypothesis with null testing, which is what @IDrinkLava is referring to.

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-null-test-your-gear-part-1--cms-22425

 

[bigshot]

...and we can measure far beyond our ability to hear with our all too human ears.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I think you're mistaking null hypothesis with null testing, which is what @IDrinkLava is referring to.

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-null-test-your-gear-part-1--cms-22425

Thank-you!

 

[timechaser]

Woaaah. Didn't mean to unleash a sh1tst0rm.

But to all - thank you very much for the suggestions.

My first set of IEMs were a cheapo Sony set, which came free with my Walkman back in 1993 - yes I am no longer young.

My current gear was what I listed. I have had at various times in the past

1. Oppo PM3
2. Oppo HA2
3. Radsone ES100
4. Sennheiser HD650
5. Shure SE215

After a few initial iterations on IEMs, I settled on the IE7 (this was roughly 2009). This love affair continued through time. I bought the Oppo PM3 / HA2 when it was released out of curiosity on planar magnetics and because I wanted a set of cans. Lasted a few years, but I always went back to IEMs. Then the AK t8ie mk2 was launched - loved the sound and purchased that. In the middle somewhere, I borrowed the HD650 for an extended period of time, but didn't much care for it. This excludes the countless Samsung and Apple free earphones which came with phones, airpods and a bunch of cheap Sony IEMs.

Apart from this, I currently use

1. BW MT-1 / Denon AVR X1600H
2. Dynaudio Audience 62 / Myryad Z120 / Cambridge Audio CXN V2
3. Ruark Audio MR1 / iFi Zen Signature / PC
4. Yamaha HS8

I would argue that while I am nowhere close to what you guys probably have or have tried, I have gone through a little bit of kit myself.

The suggestion of trying out new gear is interesting - but in Singapore (where I live) it is not the easiest. Even if I were to try and "sonically expand" my journey, how would I even make out the difference between two transducers without some serious listening? What would I be looking for? I can't even figure out the difference in what I have - how would I stack that up with other kit? Unless someone is telling me for a fact that the AK T8ie Mk2 AND the Sennheiser IE7 IEMs are CRAP.

Now back to questioning. 2 to add to my list

1. I returned the dongle I mentioned in my original post and bought a new one. Again a small Chinese company called Keysion with a Cirrus 46L41 chip embedded. The hiss is gone - so this construction is definitely better. However - and this is what I am not able to understand - when I listen to music with this dongle, my ears start getting tired super fast. I am unsure why. It is almost physically painful - and I am not turning this up to high volumes. This doesn't happen when I run the BTR5. Any thoughts why?

2. On the same dongle - if I tweak with the EQ / surround settings on my phone, I can hear a difference (not saying good or bad - just different, noticeably so). Does this mean the DAC in the dongle is not working? IF the phone was supplying a digital signal to the dongle, wouldn't it be unadorned? and if the DAC isn't working - then is the dongle merely pulling out audio over USB (which again implies using a DAC... but perhaps after an ADC?). Confused about this

3. I am using Spotify and the S21 as mentioned earlier. Technically - and this is purely technical - should I expect things to improve with a better DAC (again, assuming the dongle I have is cr@p). I am talking abt $50US spend roughly (say something like the Hidizs S3 Pro). Or would this "improvement" be marred by my phone resampling stuff? Is this resampling even important? If it disturbs the chain, should I just stick to using Bluetooth?

Cheers, and thank for all the fish.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Woaaah. Didn't mean to unleash a sh1tst0rm.

But to all - thank you very much for the suggestions.

My first set of IEMs were a cheapo Sony set, which came free with my Walkman back in 1993 - yes I am no longer young.

My current gear was what I listed. I have had at various times in the past

1. Oppo PM3
2. Oppo HA2
3. Radsone ES100
4. Sennheiser HD650
5. Shure SE215

After a few initial iterations on IEMs, I settled on the IE7 (this was roughly 2009). This love affair continued through time. I bought the Oppo PM3 / HA2 when it was released out of curiosity on planar magnetics and because I wanted a set of cans. Lasted a few years, but I always went back to IEMs. Then the AK t8ie mk2 was launched - loved the sound and purchased that. In the middle somewhere, I borrowed the HD650 for an extended period of time, but didn't much care for it. This excludes the countless Samsung and Apple free earphones which came with phones, airpods and a bunch of cheap Sony IEMs.

Apart from this, I currently use

1. BW MT-1 / Denon AVR X1600H
2. Dynaudio Audience 62 / Myryad Z120 / Cambridge Audio CXN V2
3. Ruark Audio MR1 / iFi Zen Signature / PC
4. Yamaha HS8

I would argue that while I am nowhere close to what you guys probably have or have tried, I have gone through a little bit of kit myself.

The suggestion of trying out new gear is interesting - but in Singapore (where I live) it is not the easiest. Even if I were to try and "sonically expand" my journey, how would I even make out the difference between two transducers without some serious listening? What would I be looking for? I can't even figure out the difference in what I have - how would I stack that up with other kit? Unless someone is telling me for a fact that the AK T8ie Mk2 AND the Sennheiser IE7 IEMs are CRAP.

Now back to questioning. 2 to add to my list

1. I returned the dongle I mentioned in my original post and bought a new one. Again a small Chinese company called Keysion with a Cirrus 46L41 chip embedded. The hiss is gone - so this construction is definitely better. However - and this is what I am not able to understand - when I listen to music with this dongle, my ears start getting tired super fast. I am unsure why. It is almost physically painful - and I am not turning this up to high volumes. This doesn't happen when I run the BTR5. Any thoughts why?

2. On the same dongle - if I tweak with the EQ / surround settings on my phone, I can hear a difference (not saying good or bad - just different, noticeably so). Does this mean the DAC in the dongle is not working? IF the phone was supplying a digital signal to the dongle, wouldn't it be unadorned? and if the DAC isn't working - then is the dongle merely pulling out audio over USB (which again implies using a DAC... but perhaps after an ADC?). Confused about this

3. I am using Spotify and the S21 as mentioned earlier. Technically - and this is purely technical - should I expect things to improve with a better DAC (again, assuming the dongle I have is cr@p). I am talking abt $50US spend roughly (say something like the Hidizs S3 Pro). Or would this "improvement" be marred by my phone resampling stuff? Is this resampling even important? If it disturbs the chain, should I just stick to using Bluetooth?

Cheers, and thank for all the fish.

Your in the middle of the largest population of IEM users (per capita) in the world. Your town is the world’s Mecca for IEMs.

https://music-sanctuary.com



https://crinacle.com



https://www.thefunempire.com/audio-shop-singapore/



https://www.stereo.com.sg


Just so you know the some worlds best IEMs are also made in Singapore. Crinacle has his place there, as well as many other reviewers which get/buy their stuff exclusively.......there?

There obviously are a few American brands which are hard to get there but truly it’s a party!


This is another example of just how strange this thread is?

 

[timechaser]

I never said that the choice was limited. I merely stated that trying out a wide variety is difficult because shops have limited pieces to audition.

I don't really get the point of the snark.

Edit: If you are finding this thread strange (I do admit my questions have been odd at times), why are you here responding to my comments? Leave it for others who perhaps are not finding it painful to respond to my rather naive and borderline inane comments.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I never said that the choice was limited. I merely stated that trying out a wide variety is difficult because shops have limited pieces to audition.

I don't really get the point of the snark.

Edit: If you are finding this thread strange (I do admit my questions have been odd at times), why are you here responding to my comments? Leave it for others who perhaps are not finding it painful to respond to my rather naive and borderline inane comments.

I just don’t get were your coming from, as those ARE demo locations, lots and lots of them? PM me if you want a list of places in Singapore to try headphones. I really want to help you?

I have removed any “snarky” comments, as your right, they are not needed. I’m just surprised?

Have you been to Music Sanctuary or Stereo? How about E1 Personal Audio, on Orchard? The Sony Store, 2 locations?

 

[timechaser]

I have tried out Stereo and Jaben. Haven't tried Music Sanctuary or E1. Will check those out for sure. Thank you for the suggestion, much appreciated.

Thank you very much again.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Well, E1 has more IEMs as a remember, still if you look at the photograph of the store it shows lots of full-size headphones (now?). I don’t remember there ever being so many full-size? I mean it’s been years and years since I was there. Also Music Sanctuary is only IEMs, but they have a lot of IEMs to listen to. Music Sanctuary also has demo models for sale! You may need to ask when you get to the mall they are in. As I remember they were way up top and to the right? But use the guide to locate them. Also I forget which Sony store is best for demos, one is better? I think it’s Orchard also? But I agree Singapore is different and difficult to maneuver in. It takes a lot of effort to track down these locations! But didn’t Stereo have lots to use? Also I would take a chance on the Singapore used market. I used to know someone that purchased many used IEMs there? You can find used IEMs on line? And meet with the folks, at least that’s how he did it there?

 

[timechaser]

The used market is pretty good. But that would mean buying I guess?

E1 is close to me as is Music Sanctuary (both are in the same Mall). Stereo though might be a better place for me to start I think, it might not be focussed on IEMs but the variety is wider.

Thanks a lot once again for the suggestion.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The used market is pretty good. But that would mean buying I guess?

E1 is close to me as is Music Sanctuary (both are in the same Mall). Stereo though might be a better place for me to start I think, it might not be focussed on IEMs but the variety is wider.

Thanks a lot once again for the suggestion.

Well, maybe they are in the same mall. I thought they were in different malls. Both on Orchard though? It’s been years and years since I was there? And your right, to meet someone from Carousell would mean a purchase. But if you demo in a retail location, you then know what they sound like, then use Carousell?

 

[Redcarmoose]

The used market is pretty good. But that would mean buying I guess?

E1 is close to me as is Music Sanctuary (both are in the same Mall). Stereo though might be a better place for me to start I think, it might not be focussed on IEMs but the variety is wider.

Thanks a lot once again for the suggestion.

Music Sanctuary is cool as they are super friendly and supportive. The place is small but it has tables and a bar across the wall. There is also a front set of tables where they hand you stuff. They will also have sources for you to combine with IEMs. I would suggest you head over there first. They have the Fearless line as well as qdc IEMs. Also they are always getting new stuff in? They have a lot of stuff, I’m not sure all they have? The great part is it’s not crowded and you can spend hours there without being bothered! I probably listened to 15 or 20 IEMs last time I was there?

Plus you could ask at Music Sanctuary to use a Sony WM1A and qdc Anole VX IEM combo! You could just listen to it and try to hear a difference? qdc also has a bunch of entry IEMs as well as Fearless has a new line of entry IEMs. Both my Fearless and qdc IEMs would be considered entry/mid priced.

Units To Try There:
64 Audio:
A2e, A3e, A4t, A6t, N8, U12t/A12t, U18t/A18t, Tia Trio, Tia Fourté

Astell&Kern:
SR15, SE100

Custom Art:
FIBAE 1, FIBAE 2, FIBAE3, FIBAE BLACK, FIBAE 6, Pro 330V2, Harmony 8.2, FIBAE 7

DITA Audio:
Fealty, Fidelity

Fearless Audio:
START, Crystal Pearl, S4, S5 Turbo, S5 Hifi, S6 Rui, S6 Pro, S8 Freedom, S8 Hifi, S10, ACME8, Hyper S12, Y2K, La Hire, Roland, Lancelot

Final Audio:
E1000, E2000, E3000, B1, B2, B3

FiR Audio:
M2, M3, M4, M5

Lime Ears:
LE2, LE3S, Model-X, Aether R

qdc:
3SH, 4SS, Fusion, 5SH, 8SH, 8SS, Gemini, Anole V3, Anole V6, Anole VX

Ultimate Ears:
UE 5 Pro, UE 6 Pro, UE 7 Pro, UE 11 Pro, UE Reference Remastered, UE 18+ Pro, UE Live Pro

 

[bigshot]

I don't really get the point of the snark.

It's what you get from him. That and a whole lot of subjective impressions and advice to buy things that don't make any audible difference.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I’ve only suggested that he listen to stuff? Cheers!

Do you have any quality input?

It's what you get from him. That and a whole lot of subjective impressions and advice to buy things that don't make any audible difference.