A great weekend was had using the Phono Stage! Wonderful device.
ALO Audio Studio Six Reviews and Impressions Thread
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TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
longbowbbs, Splendid!
I wonder what sort of phono cartridge you're presently using?
TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
Oh yes, Dynavector 10X5: very solid choice. I've also had nice results with the Denon DL-110 and various models of Nagaoka cartridges. I've been using a Technics SL-1210 Mk2 turntable, and so cartridge swapping is a quite easy.
The 10X series has always been a great bang for the buck. Plus it is in the sweet spot for the phono stage at 47k
TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
The Studio-Six phono stage also really benefits from NOS tubes, particularly the 12AX7's.
Unfortunately, there are lots and lots of faked "premium" 12AX7 tubes being offered online these days. It seems to be an expanding cottage industry falsely relabelling tubes to make them appear to be the rare, sought-after ones.
So yeah, Caveat Emptor to anyone trying to buy Telefunken, Mullard, or similar brands of alleged NOS 12AX7's on the web.
Unfortunately, there are lots and lots of faked "premium" 12AX7 tubes being offered online these days. It seems to be an expanding cottage industry falsely relabelling tubes to make them appear to be the rare, sought-after ones.
So yeah, Caveat Emptor to anyone trying to buy Telefunken, Mullard, or similar brands of alleged NOS 12AX7's on the web.
goldendarko
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Well after spending the past week doing some tube rolling I've come to conclusion on the subject even though it may not be popular opinion. I would recommend sticking with the stock tubes based on my experience.
I bought 6 tubes to try rolling 2 Bendix 6v6, 2 brimar 6v6, 1 Mullard 5ar5 and a RCA red base 6SN7.
The Bendix tubes were DOA so I had to send those back and fight for a refund since the seller never responded. The brimar tubes worked but sounded slightly diffuse to me and also added a noticeable level of grain. The black background I loved was gone and everything sounded a bit further away so I'm not a fan of those and will be returning them also
Nothing bad to say about the Mullard or the RCA tubes so I will be keeping those but in all honesty I don't notice a difference between stock tubes after going back and forth between them.
So all in all I spent about $500 to try tube rolling on the Studio Six and basically ended up going backwards or staying still in terms of sound quality. Others may have better experiences but I was disappointed that I didn't see better results.
Like I said, I know this opinion may be counter to everyone else's but it was my experience so I thought I should share it as well. If you are considering starting tube rolling on the Studio Six I'd say save your money because the stock tubes are great as is.
I bought 6 tubes to try rolling 2 Bendix 6v6, 2 brimar 6v6, 1 Mullard 5ar5 and a RCA red base 6SN7.
The Bendix tubes were DOA so I had to send those back and fight for a refund since the seller never responded. The brimar tubes worked but sounded slightly diffuse to me and also added a noticeable level of grain. The black background I loved was gone and everything sounded a bit further away so I'm not a fan of those and will be returning them also
Nothing bad to say about the Mullard or the RCA tubes so I will be keeping those but in all honesty I don't notice a difference between stock tubes after going back and forth between them.
So all in all I spent about $500 to try tube rolling on the Studio Six and basically ended up going backwards or staying still in terms of sound quality. Others may have better experiences but I was disappointed that I didn't see better results.
Like I said, I know this opinion may be counter to everyone else's but it was my experience so I thought I should share it as well. If you are considering starting tube rolling on the Studio Six I'd say save your money because the stock tubes are great as is.
PAM005
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Hi Goldendarko, sorry to hear.... I don't share your thoughts, think something went wrong with (some) of the tubes!
But it's sad to hear spending this serious amount of money didn't bring the results you're looking (or wished) for.
But it's sad to hear spending this serious amount of money didn't bring the results you're looking (or wished) for.
TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
goldendarko,
Wow, I'm sorry to hear of your disappointing initial result with NOS tubes.
To be honest, maybe I tried to be a bit too impartial and should have piped-up a bit more from the get go. I was worried that you maybe "jumped into the deep end" a bit too fast by buying all of those tubes at once.
On the Bad Bendixes: call your credit card and explain it to them, they should grant you a charge back, no problem.
Also on the Bendixes: IMHO they are not a good buy anyhow, and there are far better sounding tubes for much less money.
On the Brimars: wow, your results seem counter intuitive. I would think with 40-50 hours burn-in they should have sounded nice.
On Rectifiers: personally, I feel that, as far as tube selection goes, the 6V6s and 6SN7s contribute 90% or more of the sound signature, and the rectifier and regulator tubes together contribute maybe 10%, if even that much, to the sound. I always just use the J.J. 5AR4 rectifier personally.
Here is a suggestion: see if you can get a pair of NOS G.E. 6V6GT tubes made from between the mid fifties and the mid sixties (don't get anything newer). These G.E. tubes have a visibly rounded-oval plate structure, and have full-size bases, brown or black. You should be able to find a pair from a reputable outlet for considerably less than $100.
If you don't like those G.E. 6V6GTs, then I'll eat my hat!
Wow, I'm sorry to hear of your disappointing initial result with NOS tubes.
To be honest, maybe I tried to be a bit too impartial and should have piped-up a bit more from the get go. I was worried that you maybe "jumped into the deep end" a bit too fast by buying all of those tubes at once.
On the Bad Bendixes: call your credit card and explain it to them, they should grant you a charge back, no problem.
Also on the Bendixes: IMHO they are not a good buy anyhow, and there are far better sounding tubes for much less money.
On the Brimars: wow, your results seem counter intuitive. I would think with 40-50 hours burn-in they should have sounded nice.
On Rectifiers: personally, I feel that, as far as tube selection goes, the 6V6s and 6SN7s contribute 90% or more of the sound signature, and the rectifier and regulator tubes together contribute maybe 10%, if even that much, to the sound. I always just use the J.J. 5AR4 rectifier personally.
Here is a suggestion: see if you can get a pair of NOS G.E. 6V6GT tubes made from between the mid fifties and the mid sixties (don't get anything newer). These G.E. tubes have a visibly rounded-oval plate structure, and have full-size bases, brown or black. You should be able to find a pair from a reputable outlet for considerably less than $100.
If you don't like those G.E. 6V6GTs, then I'll eat my hat!
goldendarko
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TomSix.
Ok thanks for the Rec., Ill check those out. Yeah I could definately tell a difference with the Brimars but the static in the background and the crackling noise just wasn't cutting it for me. I prefer the black background of the stock tubes. I'll look into the GE 6V6's though. Not too worried about the Brimar's or Bendix's as I can recoup most of my money by just returning those 4 tubes. The Mullard and RCA Red Base weren't too expensive, but any difference they bring I couldn't honestly say is more than placebo. I just couldn't really tell.
Ok thanks for the Rec., Ill check those out. Yeah I could definately tell a difference with the Brimars but the static in the background and the crackling noise just wasn't cutting it for me. I prefer the black background of the stock tubes. I'll look into the GE 6V6's though. Not too worried about the Brimar's or Bendix's as I can recoup most of my money by just returning those 4 tubes. The Mullard and RCA Red Base weren't too expensive, but any difference they bring I couldn't honestly say is more than placebo. I just couldn't really tell.
TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
goldendarko,
Very interesting about the Brimars. That is strange. Good condition tubes should not be adding much if any additional static or crackling noises as you mention. it makes me wonder if those tubes are gassy or have cathode problems???
Boy, some guys get all the crummy luck.
I'm sorry your maiden tube-rolling experiment went down so disappointingly.
Just as a matter of strategy: Assuming one is starting off with all the other tubes you already have in the unit working and in decent condition, then I recommend experimenting with swapping output tubes first. Once one finds a set of output tubes that sound nice to one's taste, then next one might want to experiment with the input tube/s (only one in the Studio-Six case). Once one finds subjectively pleasing output and input tube/s, then I might consider rectifier tube swapping.
I too, find that most often (though not always) in amplifiers with a good power-supply design like the Studio-Six, swapping between different rectifier tubes produces only very minimal or no apparent sonic difference. As mentioned, in the ST-6 I tend to just stay with the J.J. 5AR4 rectifiers, as they are well-constructed, reliable and quite affordable.
Finally, for me, the choice of gas regulator tubes usually boils down to what color of gas discharge one likes to fancy!
Very interesting about the Brimars. That is strange. Good condition tubes should not be adding much if any additional static or crackling noises as you mention. it makes me wonder if those tubes are gassy or have cathode problems???
Boy, some guys get all the crummy luck.
Just as a matter of strategy: Assuming one is starting off with all the other tubes you already have in the unit working and in decent condition, then I recommend experimenting with swapping output tubes first. Once one finds a set of output tubes that sound nice to one's taste, then next one might want to experiment with the input tube/s (only one in the Studio-Six case). Once one finds subjectively pleasing output and input tube/s, then I might consider rectifier tube swapping.
I too, find that most often (though not always) in amplifiers with a good power-supply design like the Studio-Six, swapping between different rectifier tubes produces only very minimal or no apparent sonic difference. As mentioned, in the ST-6 I tend to just stay with the J.J. 5AR4 rectifiers, as they are well-constructed, reliable and quite affordable.
Finally, for me, the choice of gas regulator tubes usually boils down to what color of gas discharge one likes to fancy!
goldendarko
Headphoneus Supremus
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TomSix, yes I am kind of learning on the fly here and maybe these were just two bad sets of tubes I bought, not sure. The sellers on eBay both had good reviews and the prices seemed about in line with what else I saw online ($150 for the Bendix pair & $75 for the Brimar pair). Either way I'll get my money back on both and can maybe try either some other Brimars or the G.E.s you recommended. Is there a better place to buy tubes online (like an Amazon type store for tubes) it's very tough to shop for these online because you just don't know what you are going to get it seems like.
TomSix
ALO Audio Studio Six deisgner
goldendarko,
it's entirely possible you may have gotten some tubes that were pre-sorted/tested as poor/marginal, but unless one has a good tube tester how would one know?
Sounds like one or both of the Bendix's are defininitely toast. I don't mean to imply it's other than an honest situation, rather simply I'd certainly send them back.
I'm going to take a chance and go a stick my neck out a bit further about the Bendix 6V6s: I think they are actually one of the more poor sounding NOS 6V6s. The allure and mystique seems to be largely generated by their rarity, the obvious rugged construction and perceived pedigree. But.... I know of more than a few instance where experienced gear owners who get excited, buy them, and then end-up pulling them right back out because they don't like the sound as much as the tubes they had used previously. The most common complaint is a harshness to the sound. I feel the same way: I tried them for a very short while and then was pretty much ready to move on.
I have heard Brimar 6V6s a few times before, and recall them being pleasant. Many users really like their qualities, very few seem to outright dislike them, and so they are good tubes to consider -- but there will always be the matter of preference/ taste.
As far as tube sources: I'm not sure 'Amazon-type' sources would be your best bet. There are a few dedicated online tube stores which have been out there for awhile with decent reputations and generally fair prices which usually have good selections of NOS tubes. That might be a safer bet.
I'll go ahead and mention one outlet that I have always found to be fair, and that is Antique Electronic Supply. Their website is a bit wonky for looking up tubes, but the secret is to call to do a phone credit card order and tell them specifically what sort of thing you are interested in. They will go to the shelves and dig around while you wait on the phone to see if they have the brand, dates, construction, whatever, that you are looking for. This is normal for them, and they only charge a buck or two (last time I ordered) extra per tube to fill your NOS order specifically to your requests. They will even electrically match a pair for you if they have enough units in stock of a given tube, and, this too as I recall is only a couple bucks more. It's been awhile since I've needed to order any tubes ( I have a lot in stock here) but I'd wager their policy is likely still the same.
Anyhow, I'd wager some other online tube stores have some similar options for matching and/or type selection, so please know I'm not just shilling for AES --ha!
it's entirely possible you may have gotten some tubes that were pre-sorted/tested as poor/marginal, but unless one has a good tube tester how would one know?
Sounds like one or both of the Bendix's are defininitely toast. I don't mean to imply it's other than an honest situation, rather simply I'd certainly send them back.
I'm going to take a chance and go a stick my neck out a bit further about the Bendix 6V6s: I think they are actually one of the more poor sounding NOS 6V6s. The allure and mystique seems to be largely generated by their rarity, the obvious rugged construction and perceived pedigree. But.... I know of more than a few instance where experienced gear owners who get excited, buy them, and then end-up pulling them right back out because they don't like the sound as much as the tubes they had used previously. The most common complaint is a harshness to the sound. I feel the same way: I tried them for a very short while and then was pretty much ready to move on.
I have heard Brimar 6V6s a few times before, and recall them being pleasant. Many users really like their qualities, very few seem to outright dislike them, and so they are good tubes to consider -- but there will always be the matter of preference/ taste.
As far as tube sources: I'm not sure 'Amazon-type' sources would be your best bet. There are a few dedicated online tube stores which have been out there for awhile with decent reputations and generally fair prices which usually have good selections of NOS tubes. That might be a safer bet.
I'll go ahead and mention one outlet that I have always found to be fair, and that is Antique Electronic Supply. Their website is a bit wonky for looking up tubes, but the secret is to call to do a phone credit card order and tell them specifically what sort of thing you are interested in. They will go to the shelves and dig around while you wait on the phone to see if they have the brand, dates, construction, whatever, that you are looking for. This is normal for them, and they only charge a buck or two (last time I ordered) extra per tube to fill your NOS order specifically to your requests. They will even electrically match a pair for you if they have enough units in stock of a given tube, and, this too as I recall is only a couple bucks more. It's been awhile since I've needed to order any tubes ( I have a lot in stock here) but I'd wager their policy is likely still the same.
Anyhow, I'd wager some other online tube stores have some similar options for matching and/or type selection, so please know I'm not just shilling for AES --ha!
goldendarko
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Ok thanks again for the recommendation, I'll check them out
PAM005
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Take a look at www.tctubes.com They have great products and service!
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