All music lovers should take a look.
Jul 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM Post #46 of 212
This is the prime example why objectivists are often shunned by a significant proportion of the audio community.  For every decent objectivist I have had the pleasure of learning from there are two that are, well ...wrapping their hands around their... and obviously enjoy it immensely.
 
Quote:
@beeman
 
Do you wrap your cable around your .... and like it?
 



 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:14 PM Post #47 of 212


 
Quote:
aimlink said:
 
I don't see where the issue of moral conduct comes into this.
 
OTOH, cable producers are a different matter.  



Errr, this has always been about cable producers, and how they attempt to con people, which is morally unacceptable to rational, well-balanced individuals who care for other people. 
 
 
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:19 PM Post #48 of 212


Quote:
People have the ability to change their mind. I belive they do, it's going to be hard, some will not succeed but if some do i'll be happy. I just want the marketing BS to stop. Directional cryogenic tefloned multi stranded super copper best in brand cables, just for 150$ 3 meters. Please...
 


I did, because of what I read on this forum. I went with the evidence, do not wonder anymore about cable 'upgrades' and have saved myself a fortune.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:26 PM Post #49 of 212
Beeman I find your posts strange. It is interesting that evolution has resulted in some of us having such bright shiny intellects that we think we are big enough to deny evolution itself and the core instincts evolved witin us, which includes moral rightness.
 
99.999999 % of homo sapiens do not kill others in cold blood. Why? Because of our evolutionary sense of moral rightness. If you want to deny it then you and your bright shiny intellect are welcome. However this naturally evolved person will decline to listen to you from this point forward. Best wishes.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:40 PM Post #50 of 212

 
Quote:
 


Errr, this has always been about cable producers, and how they attempt to con people, which is morally unacceptable to rational, well-balanced individuals who care for other people. 
 
 


I'm gonna call you out on this one, Mr Self-Righteousness.  You wouldn't be here talking cables if you are so saintly - the best way to earn yourself a place in the good books is via charity - perhaps volunteering your services to aid the homeless - not dealing in a luxury i.e headphones.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:54 PM Post #51 of 212


Quote:
I did, because of what I read on this forum. I went with the evidence, do not wonder anymore about cable 'upgrades' and have saved myself a fortune.


Actually that ability of being able to change one's mind if proven wrong is at the very core of math and science. The most scientific (and open minded) attitude towards the whole cable issue is to be skeptical towards them until evidence to support them is shown, which has yet to happen. And personal anecdotes are not scientific evidence.
 
In other words, there is no way I'm spending a similar amount of money in a cable as I do in the headphones itself unless someone (the cable vendors I guess) can convince me at least of measurable improvements. And before someone tells me that my ears are the final judge (which is somewhat true), if proven the opportunity to try the cables before buying them I would be glad to DBT them to see if I can hear any difference, but until them I share your opinion, its nice saving oneself a small fortune.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 12:58 PM Post #52 of 212
Quote:
I did, because of what I read on this forum. I went with the evidence, do not wonder anymore about cable 'upgrades' and have saved myself a fortune.


Now THAT is my main goal. The rest doesn't matter. Maybe one world crysis wasn't enough to teach some of us how money spending should be with good sense. There are people in this world that one of that expensive cables could mean 1 more year of food and water, or even more.

 
Quote:
This is the prime example why objectivists are often shunned by a significant proportion of the audio community.  For every decent objectivist I have had the pleasure of learning from there are two that are, well ...wrapping their hands around their... and obviously enjoy it immensely.
 

 

Obviously i was thinking about the neck and the cable worn as a necklace.
 
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 1:01 PM Post #53 of 212
Quote:
This is the prime example why objectivists are often shunned by a significant proportion of the audio community. 

I doubt that.  I think it's more a case of using the one arbitrary negative instance as a scapegoat compared to actually dealing with the matter at hand.
 
Also, regarding morals.  While you can have individual morals you also have societal morals.  Unless those you socialize with says that "conning people is A-OK" then it's wrong morally based on society's views.  It may be morally acceptable to you, but society may directly contradict that.  It has nothing to do with religion like you seem to imply . . .
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 1:25 PM Post #54 of 212

 
Quote:
Quote:
This is the prime example why objectivists are often shunned by a significant proportion of the audio community. 

I doubt that.  I think it's more a case of using the one arbitrary negative instance as a scapegoat compared to actually dealing with the matter at hand.
 
Also, regarding morals.  While you can have individual morals you also have societal morals.  Unless those you socialize with says that "conning people is A-OK" then it's wrong morally based on society's views.  It may be morally acceptable to you, but society may directly contradict that.  It has nothing to do with religion like you seem to imply . . .


This is not an isolated incident, as a borderline objectivist I'd be loathed to call myself one if only to avoid association with the many impolite members I have interacted with that also claim to be as such.
 
Religion has nothing to do with "self-righteousness" - it is a pyschological state of mind that reinforces an individuals sense of self worth in order to cover other deeper rooted insecurities in the ego.  You may think whatever you like in regards to my individual morals, I'll let all members judge me by my actions in any way they choose - after all we are what we do.  To make it easier, I'll state right here and right now that I have never claimed to be a saint, angel or demon.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 1:29 PM Post #55 of 212
The What Hifi forum has a number of members who report having found cheap alternatives to their 'audiophile' cables and sold the 'audiophile' ones.
 
However, one such cable was made by a company Gotham........ 
 
http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?page=1193&setLang=2
 
....who WHF then reviewed and gave a very poor result to. Since then other cables have found favour such as Silver High Breed....
 
http://www.silverhighbreed.com/
 
....who have yet to be reviewed. Here the likes of Blue Jeans Cables......
 
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/
 
...and other get promoted as cheaper alternatives. My own preference are Van Damme (made myself) but you can find them from Van Damme
 
http://www.vdctrading.com/products_gridview.asp?SubSectionID=8&ProductID=134&secName=Audio+single+leads+-+mono+and+balanced#p134
 
or on ebay, search Van Damme Neutrik.
 
That in my mind is the best compromise. Buy a cable that has hifi in mind, so it is well made and provides you with all you need, including a bit of placebo and psychoacoustics, without ripping you off.
 
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 1:40 PM Post #56 of 212

 
Quote:
The What Hifi forum has a number of members who report having found cheap alternatives to their 'audiophile' cables and sold the 'audiophile' ones.
 
However, one such cable was made by a company Gotham........ 
 
http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?page=1193&setLang=2
 
....who WHF then reviewed and gave a very poor result to. Since then other cables have found favour such as Silver High Breed....
 
http://www.silverhighbreed.com/
 
....who have yet to be reviewed. Here the likes of Blue Jeans Cables......
 
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/
 
...and other get promoted as cheaper alternatives. My own preference are Van Damme (made myself) but you can find them from Van Damme
 
http://www.vdctrading.com/products_gridview.asp?SubSectionID=8&ProductID=134&secName=Audio+single+leads+-+mono+and+balanced#p134
 
or on ebay, search Van Damme Neutrik.
 
That in my mind is the best compromise. Buy a cable that has hifi in mind, so it is well made and provides you with all you need, including a bit of placebo and psychoacoustics, without ripping you off.
 

 
Thanks man, that is an useful post right there. Let others spend on jewelry like cables. What is gonna be next? Cables with swarovski for crystal sound? =))
 
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 5:05 PM Post #58 of 212
but i just want for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to be carefull and realise that cables won't improve his system.
 
You only have your biased and flawed tests to back up your ideas and nothing more.
 
Maybe you have a lot of money you want sexy cables but others don't,
 
Agreed.  And nobody is making anybody buy anything they don't want to buy.  If you don't want sexy cables, then don't buy them and no, I don't have a lot of money but I do need to be entertained as life without "vim," is no life at all.  Does it upset you that folks spend their money on expensive watches, sports cars, clothing, jewelery or really big houses?
 
they just want better sound.
 
And so far, what I've done to my system, has done exactly that, given me better sound.
 
I am having a sign up with " Be carefull on exotic cables" on it.
 
A sign I have no trouble with and whole heartedly agree with; "buyer beware."  But where I have trouble, is folks using their bias', backed up by their flawed testing evaluation models as if they're fact when in fact, they're fiction.  When somebody comes up with testing methods that take into consideration the analogue nature of the human sensory system, then you'll get my attention.  Until then, I'll make up my own mind on the matter and share with others the opinion of my findings.  Come on, how many times do the learned have to be proven wrong, before you anti-cable guys learn to walk a bit slower in your pronouncements and condemnations of those who disagree with you?
 
Over the last couple of decades, I've run my own tests, in my own fashion.  The difference between you guys and your phony DBT and what I've done, I've worked with the innocents of children and measured their responses to changes.  The beauty of children, they don't know what's what so they have no ax to grind and they're not out to please me either as I just play what I play and then asked them what they think.  I'm careful to not feed them hints as in this is what I expect.  I don't try to fool them by not presenting them with changes.  And yes, I control my body language.  They haven't a clue what's going on.  Based upon their response comments, you can tell the validity of the changes they're discussing.  Try getting some six and eight year olds together and see what you come-up with.  My opinion, you'll be surprised.
 
How much benefit will be taken by a set of cables?  That's subjective reasoning.  How much to spend and how far to push the envelope, that's an individual decision which each person needs to answer for themselves.  In the USA, some 40k people are killed in automobile accidents each year.  I'd submit that automobiles are a major threat to America's safety when compared to the dire warnings regarding the shenanigans of cable manufactures.  Nobody says to not buy and drive a car because they're a death trap.  In the US, medical practitioners are responsible for about a 100k deaths each year, but nobody says don't go to medical practitioners because there's a chance you'll be killed.  Medicine?  I've seen medicine get a positive nod with only a twenty or thirty percent improvement in the trial group.  The point, you anti-cable guys are aggrandizing your altruistic warnings when compared to real threats and real science, in day-to-day life that you could be banging the warning gong about.  But you don't.
 
Trust me when I write, no rational person is going go into cable buying with ignorance as their guide.  You "think" they are, but they're not.  And trust me, folks spend according to both what their budget allows and base continuation of the behavior on the reward they're getting for the expenditure.  What you and others are missing or don't want to accept, we're not babe's in the woods, waiting to be fleeced by the big bad cable wolves.  And I find that proven science is constantly being proven wrong and taught thinking is changed far to often to put my complete and total faith in science.  Especially an aspect of science that can be spotted for the con that it is, from half a world away.
 
Jul 26, 2010 at 5:14 PM Post #59 of 212
JB197 wrote:
 
99.999999 % of homo sapiens do not kill others in cold blood.
 
With all due respect, based upon your above percentage, based upon an earthly population of six point five billion, I can see you clearly haven't been paying attention to the daily news of late.
 
Alexxfloo wrote:
 
There are people in this world that one of that expensive cables could mean 1 more year of food and water, or even more.
 
Cut it out.  Your above is an example of aggrandizing.  If the above were the case, they wouldn't be saving to buy the set of cables you're alluding to and you know it.  Your above is outside rational.  At lease have the temerity to keep the conversation rational.
 
Obviously i was thinking about the neck and the cable worn as a necklace.
 
No you weren't.  Other wise you would have written as much, but you didn't, because you intended for others to think accurately, the meaning of your left out words by typing in periods.  It's a type of innuendo.
beerchug.gif

 
Jul 26, 2010 at 6:50 PM Post #60 of 212
Well you know people can joke do you? It might've been one mean sarcastic joke but IT WAS A JOKE. So please relax a bit, and drink a beer u seem to like so much.I recommend german beer
beerchug.gif
. I still recommend normal cables too. And please do this test for me if you have the time.
 
1. Buy some ordinary cables, just same thickness as your more expensive ones and gold plated connectors.
2. I assume you already have the supreme cables. <- JOKE :D
3. Call a friend to your house and make him interchange the cables and try to asses which cable are you listening. Interchange at least 20 times and ask your friend to note each time you are right.
4. Tell me how many times were your results correct.
5. Don't cheat. (JOKE)
 
And then we shall continue our discussion.
 

 
 

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