[bigshot]

Even if its pure placebo, if I hear it every time....let me be happy with my placebo.

I don't think anyone is denying you the right to be affected by placebo. But if you want to offer advice and observations to other people, particularly those who are concerned with bang for the buck, you might want to make it clear that your opinion only applies to yourself. For a recommendation to be objective, it's useful to remove placebo from the equation.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

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It probably depends on your hearing acuity and your transducers.

Maybe the two DACs have slightly different line levels. Listeners often mistake "slightly louder" for "better sound".

i am also a victim of that. but when i adjusted the volume to match on both they sounded the same.

 

[Dynobot]

Opinions only apply to the speaker by default.
 
No more dialog need be exchanged between us on this subject.
 
I see where you are going and I am not interested.
 
Calm your testosterone and your ego, you won't get me to bite with a battle of the whits.
 
Thank You
 
 
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Even if its pure placebo, if I hear it every time....let me be happy with my placebo.

I don't think anyone is denying you the right to be affected by placebo. But if you want to offer advice and observations to other people, particularly those who are concerned with bang for the buck, you might want to make it clear that your opinion only applies to yourself. For a recommendation to be objective, it's useful to remove placebo from the equation.

 

 

[bcasey25raptor]

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Even if its pure placebo, if I hear it every time....let me be happy with my placebo.

I don't think anyone is denying you the right to be affected by placebo. But if you want to offer advice and observations to other people, particularly those who are concerned with bang for the buck, you might want to make it clear that your opinion only applies to yourself. For a recommendation to be objective, it's useful to remove placebo from the equation.

i agree with you big shot. it can be very misleading when people state an opinion without evidence.

 

[caracara08]

so if its all placebo, why do any of you have more than onboard sound > e9 > and whatever headphone?

 

[Dynobot]

Opinions don't need evidence....Facts need evidence.

Definition of OPINION

1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
 
Opinions are SUBJECTIVE
 

Definition of FACT

: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
 
Facts are backed by evidence
 
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What is really annoying is people trolling for an argument.

 
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i agree with you big shot. it can be very misleading when people state an opinion without evidence.

 

 

[Dynobot]

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so if its all placebo, why do any of you have more than onboard sound > e9 > and whatever headphone?

They all need to just dump what ever cheap gear they have and plug their headphones directly into the computer.
 
Its all the same

 

 

[Albedo]

Some of the reason that all sound the same might be this..
 
Quote: http://www.tweak-fi.com/apps/blog/show/5031063-is-there-really-an-audible-difference-between-cables-

Let’s take for example a phone conversation. If we concentrate enough,we can recognize a voice on a poor connection. So how come? Well, our brains interpolate the available data points and check it against our “database” of known voices.

The same is done when listening critically in a double blind test: our brains records the details with the better equipment and then fill in the gaps when listening to lesser equipment.

Unfortunately, this “imprinted memory” fades away after a while.

 

 

[caracara08]

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They all need to just dump what ever cheap gear they have and plug their headphones directly into the computer.
 
Its all the same

 

id agree but these ppl seem to think the e9 is the holy grail of audiophilia so you cant be without that. 
 

 

[Currawong]

This thread is not about "All DACs sound the same." it is about: "With the DACs or soundcards I've tried, with the headphones I have, I couldn't discern any significant difference playing the music I like."

 

[caracara08]

This is what the thread is about.

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Indeed. A thunder storm killed a PCI slot in my PC which held the X-Fi Xtremegamer card. I had no choice but to use my integrated sound card.
 
Sad, I was about to look for a new DAC when...
 
I realized there is no difference in sound between my integrated sound card and my X-Fi Xtremegamer.
 
It truly is all placebo and hype. For a second I thought it sounded worse but it turned out that way because I ASSUMED it would sound worse. It didn't, it sounds exactly the same.
 
DAC's and Cables do not do anything to enhance sound quality.
 
Only amps are really worth anything... and to be honest anything over the Fiio E9 is also just hype, overpriced, placebo.
 
A good source such as a high bitrate digital file, better media players (Foobar sounds better than iTunes for some reason), an amp, and most importantly of all a good set of headphones are the key to good sound.

 
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Bad DACs sound bad. Good DACs all sound the pretty much the same. iTunes sounds great if your equipment takes advantage of its strengths. Apple computers and iPods are designed to sound great with iTunes.

 
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This is all subjective of course, but my IB English teacher taught me that if you want your statement to be stronger, don't mention "in my opinion" even though it is an indeed an OPINION.
 
I'm not gonna get into computer audio but I believe the different methods they output sound makes a difference. Or iTunes output of direct sound just sucks.
 
Honestly if DAC's/Amps/cables can't objectively improve sound then there IS NO DIFFERENCE. Just hype/placebo. It's the same as falling into the Bose/Beats marketing campaign.
 
The only difference I know that DAC's can have is that if a DAC is utterly bad that changing it makes a difference. Like bigshot says, most modern DAC's are good, I guess my integrated sound has a good DAC then, not too surprised since this is one of the newer motherboards from AMD.
 
I bet you that an E7 (which I also had before) for example will sound exactly the same as a $1000 DAC.
 
 

 
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Well if my integrated sound chipset happened to be good that's nice but the point I'm trying to convey is that anything over $100 spent on DAC's is a waste since as long as the DAC is of good enough quality it will sound the same. Hell, possibly spending over $30-50 might be waste...
 
 

 

 

[Dynobot]

unsubscribed

 

[bigshot]

Opinions don't need evidence....Facts need evidence.

All opinions are not created equal. Some are backed up by evidence and others are simply subjective impressions. Facts are the tests that are used to determine whether an opinion is valid or not. The results of double blind tests are facts that indicate that support the belief that most modern DACs sound the same.

Perhaps your own opinions are purely subjective, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are.

 

[bigshot]

​

Some of the reason that all sound the same might be this.

That is probably true of comparison of long samples, but the easy way to eliminate that is direct A/B line level matched switching. It's easy to detect even subtle differences when you can compare side by side.

Besides, auditory memory is very short- a matter of a few seconds.

 

[Uncle Erik]

DACs have a section where they convert digital to analog. That gets fed into another section that boosts that signal to line level, so it can be fed into a preamp or headphone amp.

The amount of power from that output section varies between DACs. People are good at hearing differences in volume and it doesn't surprise me that some pick up on it. As Bigshot said, louder equals better to most.

I think people interpret this difference in output power as a difference in DAC quality. But that's like slightly turning up your amp and saying that it is a different amp.

Level match (with a meter) digital devices and they all sound frighteningly similar.

As for not running everything off the computer, there are practical considerations. I run a traditional setup, with a preamp, separate components, speakers, turntable, SACD player, radio tuner, etc. I don't want to have a computer in the mix. Maybe I'll add a music server for Red Book one of these days, but not today. Second, computers are noisy inside. I don't want my digital conversion picking up RFI from a switching power supply, spinning fan, etc. So I'll use an external DAC, which will fit with my other components.

Amplification is another matter. I like my tubes and, yes, there are actual differences between tube amps. You'll find some material out there about how all amps sound the same and a contest, too. But read the contest rules. You're not allowed to clip the amps and it also excludes most tube topologies. In other words, all amps sound the same except for the ones that don't. Cute, isn't it? After that point is made, they will shift to the argument that these amps are inaccurate. Yes, in some ways they are, but then all amps are inaccurate. And some inaccurate amps are pleasing to listen to.

Also add in the build quality/reliability factor. Well-built amps with a long lifespan don't come cheap. I'd rather spend money on something I can use for the next 20 years than constantly replacing cheap ones.