AKG K702 Impressions.
Mar 4, 2013 at 1:12 AM Post #151 of 636
This is confusing and complicated. Everybody has their own opinion about aftermarket cables. Then, everybody has their own opinion about specific aftermarket cables. I don't know what I'm going to do.
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 3:12 AM Post #152 of 636
Quote:
This is confusing and complicated. Everybody has their own opinion about aftermarket cables. Then, everybody has their own opinion about specific aftermarket cables. I don't know what I'm going to do.

Why not just make your own?
 
Edit:  Oh, you already thought of that.
 
Do you like how they sound already?  I wouldn't even bother changing the cables unless you really think it needs an upgrade.  I would rather use that extra money towards another headphones or amp etc.
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 3:52 AM Post #153 of 636
Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360508777168
 
I'm thinking about getting this Mogami Hi Definition Mini Quad Microphone Cable with Neutrik Gold Series NP3X-B and premium Neutrik REAN connectors cable. It's based on this Mogami cable: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/microphone/quad/. I think the price is average, but it's much lower than Cardas. I have the money to buy a Cardas Fat Pipe, but I am not sure if I want to spend $250 on a headphone replacement cable when the headphones are $263 on Amazon.
 
Should I try this out?

 
 
The cable looks good, the price is okay...but no return policy on this item.
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM Post #154 of 636
I just paid a very old debt a few minutes ago. I decided to do that rather than spend $250 for headphone cables that I'll barely notice any differences let alone improvements. I think that's a very wise decision.
 
I looked at the wiring schematic for the AKG K 702 and I'd have to say that I'm having a hard time believing how a cable upgrade will make a dramatic difference for them. Technically, the replacement cable doesn't even fully connect both drivers. It's more or less difficult to understand how $500 dollar boutique replacement cables can make any sonic improvements beyond placebo effect. I call it "I'm not going to admit I spent more money for a headphone cable than the headphones themselves so I'll just fool myself and others here that don't know any better."
 
The Moon Audio Silver Dragon did produce noticeable improvements, but the pure silver wire sounded wrong. I found it exacerbated the bright trebles more sharply and there was this fake sheen of high definition that I could not find to occur naturally. They're very expensive headphone cables. However, they're popular here and are sometimes recommended for cost-no-object upgrades for the AKG K 702. I found that it was just a waste of money and I returned them for a full refund.
 
I'll have to say that until AKG releases a future successor to the K 701 or K 702 or Q 701 that radically changes the wiring to the drivers, it's a waste of time to spend more than $30 for high end boutique aftermarket cables for this headphone. The only way that you'll notice any sound differences is when you spend stupid money like I did for a headphone cable that costs more than the current street price for the headphones themselves and that's just insane and stupid at the same time. The improvements come down to personal preferences and that's just about it. I did not like the Moon Audio Silver Dragon at all for the K 702. It had too many minuses compared to strengths that outweighed their cost.
 
I'm not saying that cable manufacturers and authorized dealers are scam artists preying upon the rich and dumb. I'm just saying that cable upgrades are context sensitive to your personal preferences and your sound system. If it sounds good, then it is good. I think that the stock cable sounds good and it's a good value compared to Belden or Mogami aftermarket cables especially when you compare them against high end boutique cables like Moon Audio's cables.
 
For other headphones, cable upgrades can yield clear sound improvements depending upon your personal preferences and sound system. I'm not making generalizations about other headphones or your sound system.
 
The most important piece is the source music. For me, I have a very large collection of Fraunhofer or LAME 320 Kbps MP3s at 16 bits 44.1 or 48.0 kHz resolution. I have a limited collection of FLAC 24 bit 192 kHz high resolution albums. Most of the time, I'll listen to Spotify Premium which uses Vorbis 320 Kbps bit rate at standard 16 bit 44.1 kHz resolution. As you can see for yourself, it's a wash for me. Upgrading the headphone cable for my AKG K 702 is not going to be worth it in my particular case.
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 10:04 AM Post #156 of 636
I love how technical communities (this one included) blast snake oil companies (rightfully so) like Monster Cables for selling expensive cables that have no added benefit over cheap ones from Monoprice, and then in the same breath recommend you buy an obnoxiously expensive cable for your headphones.  Let's not even mention that these cables have no proven added benefit and ignore the independent tests done by unrelated entities that show there is no measurable change in sound quality.  Lets also forget that electrical engineering exists.
 
That's not hypocrisy at all!
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 12:12 PM Post #157 of 636
Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360508777168
 
I'm thinking about getting this Mogami Hi Definition Mini Quad Microphone Cable with Neutrik Gold Series NP3X-B and premium Neutrik REAN connectors cable. It's based on this Mogami cable: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/microphone/quad/. I think the price is average, but it's much lower than Cardas. I have the money to buy a Cardas Fat Pipe, but I am not sure if I want to spend $250 on a headphone replacement cable when the headphones are $263 on Amazon.
 
Should I try this out?


Redco can make the same thing for you for under $30. Same W2893 wire.
You just have to give them the pin assignments which I've posted in the Q701 thread. I can try to dig them up later.
 
Mogami W2893 is the only cable I like on the Q701. Everything else sounds thinner than stock except Canare.
So far i've tried DHC, ALO SXC, Canare and Belden.
 
Found the link:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/2535#post_9159187
 
It takes them about 3-4 days to ship an item since it's custom work. Not too bad.
 
There is also this one:
http://best-tronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BMI&Product_Code=MIC32-XX&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1
 
I think it uses generic Belden. It does make the Q701 a bit clearer, but more cold/analytical, but not as much as ALO SXC.
 
Unlike some stock cables, the stock Q701/K702 cable is very good.
 
If you made a K702 cable yourself, you would only save yourself $10 maybe. Mini-XLRs are now around $7 unless you get a really generic version.
Mini-XLRs are hard to solder without a good soldering iron, a vise and "helping hands".
 
Sometimes I think aftermarket expensive cables are like 90% labor markup. I'm glad I don't run a business only selling cables. Can you do it for very slightly above cost? Doubt it.
 
Mar 4, 2013 at 12:38 PM Post #158 of 636
Quote:
I just paid a very old debt a few minutes ago. I decided to do that rather than spend $250 for headphone cables that I'll barely notice any differences let alone improvements. I think that's a very wise decision.
 
I looked at the wiring schematic for the AKG K 702 and I'd have to say that I'm having a hard time believing how a cable upgrade will make a dramatic difference for them. Technically, the replacement cable doesn't even fully connect both drivers. It's more or less difficult to understand how $500 dollar boutique replacement cables can make any sonic improvements beyond placebo effect. I call it "I'm not going to admit I spent more money for a headphone cable than the headphones themselves so I'll just fool myself and others here that don't know any better."
 
The Moon Audio Silver Dragon did produce noticeable improvements, but the pure silver wire sounded wrong. I found it exacerbated the bright trebles more sharply and there was this fake sheen of high definition that I could not find to occur naturally. They're very expensive headphone cables. However, they're popular here and are sometimes recommended for cost-no-object upgrades for the AKG K 702. I found that it was just a waste of money and I returned them for a full refund.
 
I'll have to say that until AKG releases a future successor to the K 701 or K 702 or Q 701 that radically changes the wiring to the drivers, it's a waste of time to spend more than $30 for high end boutique aftermarket cables for this headphone. The only way that you'll notice any sound differences is when you spend stupid money like I did for a headphone cable that costs more than the current street price for the headphones themselves and that's just insane and stupid at the same time. The improvements come down to personal preferences and that's just about it. I did not like the Moon Audio Silver Dragon at all for the K 702. It had too many minuses compared to strengths that outweighed their cost.
 
I'm not saying that cable manufacturers and authorized dealers are scam artists preying upon the rich and dumb. I'm just saying that cable upgrades are context sensitive to your personal preferences and your sound system. If it sounds good, then it is good. I think that the stock cable sounds good and it's a good value compared to Belden or Mogami aftermarket cables especially when you compare them against high end boutique cables like Moon Audio's cables.
 
For other headphones, cable upgrades can yield clear sound improvements depending upon your personal preferences and sound system. I'm not making generalizations about other headphones or your sound system.
 
The most important piece is the source music. For me, I have a very large collection of Fraunhofer or LAME 320 Kbps MP3s at 16 bits 44.1 or 48.0 kHz resolution. I have a limited collection of FLAC 24 bit 192 kHz high resolution albums. Most of the time, I'll listen to Spotify Premium which uses Vorbis 320 Kbps bit rate at standard 16 bit 44.1 kHz resolution. As you can see for yourself, it's a wash for me. Upgrading the headphone cable for my AKG K 702 is not going to be worth it in my particular case.

 
Cable upgrades are never a dramatic difference. At least not for me. Probably less than a 5% improvement. I'm also not a believer in them making a measurable difference in frequency graphs, but that they slightly change the tone of how a headphone sounds. It's like the difference between the K701 and Q701. The biggest difference i've heard was when I recabled my HD-598 straight to the drivers with Mogami W2893.
 
I also don't think a more expensive cable will magically make it sound better. I think you could get similar results with cheaper wire. For example I always felt that Cat6 made into a headphone cable sounded a bit like ALO SXC. I've had a few expensive cables (mostly in trades) that were worse than stock. Technically better, but just not the same.
 
Despite the stock wires in place on the K702, there is still some benefits of a recable. I prefer DIY or cheap wire.
 
I imagine silver would be awful on the K702. Silver plated copper was even bad and it SEEMED to suck out all the warmth of my Q701. Thing felt more distant, which seems impossible. ALO SXC was amazing the first week then I realized I lost some of my warmth. I didn't want the Q701 any more analytical sounding.
 
Mogami I love because it sounds like stock, but is slightly fuller sounding than stock. Basically the same with some other improvements.
 
I've always had this crazy belief that the lower the capacitance the brighter/thinner a headphone will sound. When I get a higher capacitance wire it sounds warmer and more muffled.
 
I like whatever is right in the middle. I think most stock cables are except for the Sennheiser HD-650. I think Mogami is probably right in the middle, but slightly higher.
 
When I got my Magni it made me believe such things even more. Like how come an amp that measures so flat could sound so cold and analytical and seem bright at times? My other amp is transparent and sounds less cold, yet not warm. I know theres a lot more to it.
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 8:08 PM Post #159 of 636
It's been a couple of days and my K702 sounds nearly the same as the first couple of hours when I got them this past Friday. I'm calling this 300 - 500 hour burn-in requirement ********. It sounds clear and dynamic with very good resolution and detail retrieval and an even tonal balance. It sounds neutral, accurate, transparent to my ears. I still give the edge to my Etymotic ER-4PT/S combination for accuracy and neutrality. I'm just not hearing any of the benefits of burn-in at all. I hooked this up to a table radio with a 3.5 mm headphone jack and I turned up the volume to the maximum and let it burn-in to several FM radio stations for the past several days. It sounds nearly identical to the first day that I got my K 702. Chalk this up to experience, but burn-in is ********. I hate ********.
 
I think that the AKG K 701, K 702, and Q 701 are the best value for high end full sized open design headphones in the industry. These compete with $1000 headphones or more. The bass is very well articulated and highly textured. There's a solid bass foundation that is supple and quick, but it lacks weight and impact. I can hear the bass notes clearly, but I just can't feel them. My ER-4S sound exactly the same. These two have a very similar sonic signature which I love.
 
I have not found sonic weaknesses in my upstream components. I thought that I would hear all of these sonic imperfections, but I don't. Listening to high end headphones especially IEMs is like looking through a high powered microscope to your music and audio system. It reveals almost everything. I'm fortunate to report that the rest of my listed gear is up to snuff.
 
I like the K 702 house sound a lot. It's got a fine European concert hall sound that is particularly resplendent with an out of the head sound stage. It feels totally natural to listen to the K 702. It sounds like listening to floor standing full range loudspeakers. I find that female vocalists have a particularly pure and clear sound that comes through true with the K 702. It's got a creamy tonality for female vocalists and singers that makes it sound more intimate and personal. It's like she's singing in your ears only.
 
I'm interested in the Mogami 2534 cable, but I'm having a hard time finding it. I did see this using Belden 22 AWG cable:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1-8-Gold-AKG-Headphone-Cable-K702-K271s-K141s-K171s-K240s-Hi-Fi-Audiophile-/190579041953?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2c5f6566a1
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1-4-Gold-AKG-Headphone-Cable-K702-K271s-K141s-K171s-K240s-Hi-Fi-Audiophile-/190579040573?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2c5f65613d
 
The price is reasonable if not on the slightly pricey side. I'm considering to give it a shot, but I'm not sure if I should get the 3.5 mm terminated version.
 
So, is it worth it to get it or not?
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 10:53 PM Post #160 of 636
Nevermind.
 
I am going to place my Best-Tronics order for a 10' foot long Belden cable for $35 shipped. That's a very low price for a headphone replacement cable. I'm thinking that I'll give it a try. However, I don't expect it to change my AKG K 702 or rock my world. The stock cable is good, but it exhibits peaky trebles on certain specific albums and tracks that I own. I think that is the nature of the headphone itself, but I'm curious to find out if swapping cables will fix that problem or not.
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 11:07 PM Post #161 of 636
Quote:
Nevermind.
 
I am going to place my Redco custom order for a 10' foot long Mogami 2893 mini quad microphone cable for $33 shipped. That's a very low price for a headphone replacement cable. I'm thinking that I'll give it a try. However, I don't expect it to change my AKG K 702 or rock my world. The stock cable is good, but it exhibits peaky trebles on certain specific albums and tracks that I own. I think that is the nature of the headphone itself, but I'm curious to find out if swapping cables will fix that problem or not.


I can guarantee it will not, but sorry I had to ruin your fun (or money)
normal_smile .gif

 
I think the Mogami will still be worth it even if it doesn't offer an audible improvement. I actually think it does, but VERY slightly. Heck it's not like a $33 is some snake oil garbage. It's cheap!
 
Based on my experience, some music (bad recordings) will always have peaky treble on any headphone with good treble. If I want this to be tamed a tad I can just use an HD-600 or 650.
 
I do clearly remember playing through Fallout 3 and the Assault Rifle giving my ears a fit. I tried a Canare cable and it wasn't as bad. Why? No clue. Canare just seems so muffled to me.
There was also this shout (?) in Skyrim that seemed to have an edge taken off with Canare. I forget which one it is since I haven't played that game in forever.
 
People can feel free to claim I'm hearing things.
 
EDIT: when buying that Redco cable, make sure you give them the pin assignments. I'm 75% sure the K702 pin assignments are not standard. The ones i've posted earlier are what works for me.
 
Also, the HDJ-2000 cable is said to work, so maybe they are standard and not reversed?
 
Mar 6, 2013 at 11:12 PM Post #162 of 636
I'm getting the Best-Tronics cable because I prefer the Belden cable. Based on your description, I'd prefer a replacement cable just in case my stock cable goes bad and it needs to be replaced. That's the reason why I'm getting it. I'd prefer a colder, more analytical sound to compliment the AKG K 702. That's the way my audio system sounds and I don't want a warmer sounding cable. Thanks for your help.
 
No, this is not snake oil cable. It's custom pro audio cable. It measures well and there's no ******** marketing hype with these cables.
 
Mar 19, 2013 at 12:17 AM Post #163 of 636
I never got either of the cables. I'm sticking with the stock cables because I want to save some money.
 
I think that the AKG K 702 are about 80% accurate in terms of neutrality compared to other headphones. I'd say that the Sennheiser HD-600 are about 85% accurate while the HD-800 is about 95% accurate. The K 702 are closer to the Sennheiser HD-650, but the latter has more prominent bass impact while the former has more transient speed and brighter treble. I compared the K 702 to the Etymotic ER-4S and the 4S is clearly much more accurate or neutral. It gets timbral accuracy, tonal balance, and resolution right while the K 702 has a more polite and softer sound. I feel at ease with the ER-4S while I struggle to burn in the K 702 or understand its character. The ER-4S is clearly superior to the K 702 in almost every meaningful way, but they are less comfortable. Neither are particularly comfortable to begin with either. I feel that the K 702 is not trying to step on anyone's toes. It's like your first dance instructor. He or she will be polite and show you the steps and moves, but you won't win any competitions after taking a few lessons. The K 702 is like that dance instructor that wants you to keep booking lessons in the future. It leaves me wanting for more of everything from accuracy, neutrality, resolution, detail retrieval, transparency, and deeper bass impact. I'm no bass head myself, but the K 702 are seriously lacking in bass punch or impact while it's not trying to impress me with any of its strengths to compensate for its known deficiencies. Most audiophile headphones sound like this. I understand. It's just that the K 702 are merely good but forgettable headphones with a slick design and detachable cables. They don't have anything going for them other than they're merely reference grade. They don't try to impress you with anything in particular. They sound bland.
 
This is what makes the AKG K 701, K 702, and Q 701 so very special. The music just flows through unadulterated and it speaks for itself. I can get sucked into the music when listening to the K 702, but the ER-4S transports me to my private listening aura. I strongly prefer the ER-4S because I get the brutal honest truth to the recording. They're classic gems. I find it more difficult to place the K 702 other than audiophile reference headphones and that's just about it. They're paticularly good for classical and opera and acoustic and classic jazz, but they don't shine with anything else.
 
I'm thinking that they don't have enough burn in time. I haven't reached the 300 hour minimum mark yet. I understand that they are supposed to open up after 300 hours and take into their own. It's just I'm not hearing it at all. I'm listening to lots of music through them, but none of it sounds improved. Where the ER-4S has accuracy and immediacy, the K 702 has diminished accuracy and nothing much else. I keep getting the niggling feeling that there's a veil or shroud that is covering up the sound because everybody tells me the K 701 sound so clear after they reach 300 hours of burn in time.
 
Switching over to the ER-4S, I just cut my wait time to nothing and I'm enjoying the sound and the music. It sounds really good right now. I think that the ER-4S has punchier and tighter bass than the K 702 or at least that's what I perceive. Perhaps the nicest thing that I have to say about the K 702 is the out of head sound I experience. I feel like I'm listening to near field monitors with the K 702 because sound emanates outside of my head. It's a nice effect, but it wears off pretty quickly. The ER-4S has everything that the K 702 lacks right now.
 
I'll continue to burn in the K 702 and I'll keep an open mind, but I'm coming to the conclusion that no amount of burn in is going to change these suckers drastically. I may be wrong, but I just can't fathom any major improvements.
 
 
Mar 25, 2013 at 11:30 AM Post #164 of 636
I've been burning my k702 for 300hours now, and heard a lot of improvements. Especially in bass aspect. The soundstaging becomes wider and more transparent. Though still not good on rock music, maybe because of the lack on bass impact. But overall it gave me more time longing for it and using them a lot.
I love my my SR80i paired with my fiio e7 because they are good with that genre, but use it only with my iPad. This are on the go cans. AKG of course the HOUSE can!!
 
Mar 25, 2013 at 12:31 PM Post #165 of 636
Quote:
I never got either of the cables. I'm sticking with the stock cables because I want to save some money.
 

 
Hooray!! :)
 
The stock cable is probably the very best cable for use with these headphones.
 
There are probably no benefits to be had with replacing the cable for these headphones with another. That is probably the case for 99% of headphones.
 
Wait until the advocates of changing cables demonstrate they can identify the differences they report in double blind listening tests before spending any time on this.
 
 
This is what makes the AKG K 701, K 702, and Q 701 so very special. The music just flows through unadulterated and it speaks for itself.
 

 
Yes, this is what good Hi Fi is like. I think the AKG K701/K702/Q701 are special more because many of the other headphones are often stamping a hefty "sound signature" on the source and AKG K701//K702/Q701 do this much less. The term "sound signature" has become common parlance but it is just a nice term for distortion.
 
Hi Fi has suffered massively and increasing over the last three decades in making the components the subject of the story. This is a product of consumerist excess I think. The Hi Fi components are described always by the "reviewers" in an active sense. That they "firm up the bass" or what-have-you. Hi Fi components shouldn't be doing anything with the source material, they should be letting you hear it.
 
Let the musicians decide if they want the bass to be firm or soft edged. Let the musicians decide if they want the music to sound warm or cold.
 
 
I'll continue to burn in the K 702 and I'll keep an open mind, but I'm coming to the conclusion that no amount of burn in is going to change these suckers drastically. I may be wrong, but I just can't fathom any major improvements.
 

 
I don't think you will spot any significant change in the reproduction of music by "burn in". So instead of listening for that, so much better just to listen to the music and forget about this.
 
After a couple of years I think there is a chance that my AKG K702s have become a little bit tamer in the treble. However I would not say this for certain without first trying it out in a double blind listening test.
 

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