[gridlock]

Hi Head Fanatics,
 
Yes, I've used the search feature and have read through many posts on possible Amp/Dac combo units for the AKG K702.  A lot of the posts were for amps without a dac, and others for tubed units.  What I'm looking for is for a solid-state Amp/Dac with enough grunt to drive the AKG K702 to 'comfortable' levels with no straining or compression, for up to $500 or so.  I also need optical/coax PCM inputs; don't need USB.  Although I am a newbie as far as headphone gear is concerned, I do have a lot of experience with relatively hi-end audio equipment over many years.  I don't have the headphones yet, but will be receiving shortly.  I listen to all types of music including singer-songwriter, folk, jazz, rock, classical, etc.  I don't listen to metal (those days are long gone!).
 
The list of units that I've found that meet this criteria so far are (all prices include shipping):
 
Audio-GD Sparrow A version - $258 (or possibly NFB-12)
Matrix Mini-i - $329
Matrix Cube - $299
Little Dot DAC_I - $314 (realized afterward that this unit does not include a headphone amp)
Little Dot DAC_2 - $339
Musiland MD11 - $379
Yulong D100 - $479
 
I would greatly appreciate anyone's feedback on these units or any others that you have experience with that may fit the bill.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
P.S. I might use a Behringer DEQ2496 to EQ (raise slighly) the bass a tad, so the amp would need the headroom for that added demand.  I am not a bass freak though, I would not listen at ear-splitting levels.

 

[steveotron]

I'm in the same situation you are, except I'm looking for a DAC/AMP for the HD 650s.
 
Where are you getting some of those prices from?
 
The Mini-I and Cube are available for $300 and $270, respectively, directly from coolfungadget's site with free shipping. The D100 is $470 there as well. You might also want to look into the HDP ($450 minus $20 coupon code = $430) from crutchfield.com.
 
The Yulong looks very good because it supposedly has a great DAC and very good AMP, and it does ASRC, but it's also the priciest unit, and that would make me hesitant to spend more money on an AMP afterward. The NuForce Icon HDP looks very good, although there haven't been any comparisons between it and the Yulong D100.
 
I'm personally leaning towards the Mini-I because it's relatively cheaper, and it leaves some room in my budget to get an AMP like the M-Stage or Asgard since I have a feeling that I'd quickly get upgrade-itis and want to go beyond the AMP in the combos. The Cube looks like a better choice in terms of pricing and features (except it is not balanced), but there have been issues brought up about its cosmetics (defects), and although it doesn't really affect sound quality, it might hurt your resale value if you decide to part with it, as other buyers would be a bit more hesitant.
 
With that said, a more expensive DAC/AMP combo might satisfy you, and you might not have as much of an issue as me with spending closer to $500 upfront and still getting an AMP afterward if the bug hits you.

 

[igotnojob]

 
Quote:

Hi Head Fanatics,
 
Yes, I've used the search feature and have read through many posts on possible Amp/Dac combo units for the AKG K702.  A lot of the posts were for amps without a dac, and others for tubed units.  What I'm looking for is for a solid-state Amp/Dac with enough grunt to drive the AKG K702 to 'comfortable' levels with no straining or compression, for up to $500 or so.  I also need optical/coax PCM inputs; don't need USB.  Although I am a newbie as far as headphone gear is concerned, I do have a lot of experience with relatively hi-end audio equipment over many years.  I don't have the headphones yet, but will be receiving shortly.  I listen to all types of music including singer-songwriter, folk, jazz, rock, classical, etc.  I don't listen to metal (those days are long gone!).
 
The list of units that I've found that meet this criteria so far are (all prices include shipping):
 
Audio-GD Sparrow A version - $258 (or possibly NFB-12)
Matrix Mini-i - $329
Matrix Cube - $299
Little Dot DAC_I - $314 (realized afterward that this unit does not include a headphone amp)
Little Dot DAC_2 - $339
Musiland MD11 - $379
Yulong D100 - $479
 
I would greatly appreciate anyone's feedback on these units or any others that you have experience with that may fit the bill.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
P.S. I might use a Behringer DEQ2496 to EQ (raise slighly) the bass a tad, so the amp would need the headroom for that added demand.  I am not a bass freak though, I would not listen at ear-splitting levels.

On your list, I only have the Yulong D100. I bought it cause I wanted a good DAC. For this purpose, I find the D100 to be excellent. It is the best DAC I own (the others are portable DAC/Amp combos). I was considering the NFB-11 and NFB-12 as well but, unfortunately, I never got a chance to hear those units.
 
One caveat about the D100 I would raise is the fact that, at least to me, the amp section on the D100 does not sound nearly as good as the Matrix M-Stage amp I have. At least through my headphones (HD580 and K701), the sound from the integrated amp in the D100 sounds somewhat thin and a tiny bit more gravelly when compared to the Matrix. Some people in the main D100 review thread have commented that the D100 amp sounds very close to the M-Stage. Others have said that this perception is headphone-dependent. I have only used those two headphones mentioned earlier and both are considered harder to drive phones. My personal impression is that the D100 + M-Stage sounds very noticeably better than just the D100 by itself. This is something you might want to take into account if you are committed to buying an all-in-one unit.
 
Although I have not heard the NFB-12, if the DAC in that is as good as the DAC in the D100, it might be better to get the NFB-12 with a M-Stage which would not cost that much more than a D100. I don't own nor have listened to any of the other units on your list so have no opinion about them.

 

[gridlock]

Hi steveotron,
 
The place I got the prices for most of the gear is here: http://www.audiophilechina.com/index.asp.  A couple of the prices you mentioned are a bit cheaper.  Is coolfungadget a reputable source?
 
I would certainly prefer to spend a little less as well, but am trying to get the best I can within a specific budget so that I don't play the upgraditis game soon after.  My preference is also to keep things simple, and not have both a DAC and separate amp.  The extra cable can sometimes lead to poorer sound quality due to extra jitter introduced, etc.
 
The Yulong does seem like a pretty nice unit, and had some nice options.  I would like to hear from some folks who have paired the unit with the K701/702, since that headphone is known to be quite demanding of its partnering amp.

 

[gridlock]

Hi igotnojob,
 
Thanks for the input.  My preference is to go with a combo amp/DAC, as I just want to keep things as simple as possible.  In fact, I simplified my main stereo system quite a bit recently, and am both enjoying the fact that there is less to go wrong, as well as better sound due to (IMO) fewer components and cabling.
 
That's too bad to hear about your experience with the headphone amp in the D100.  Another possibility I have is to use the DAC in the Behringer DEQ2496 that I already own (I may want to use it anyhow to tweak EQ a bit as mentioned in the original post) and just buy a headphone amp without a DAC, but my thinking is that some of the newer DAC's in the amp/DAC combos might be better than the one in the Behringer.  I also own a couple of very good stand-alone DACS including a Muse 296 and a Lector Digicode 224 balanced tubed unit, but as mentioned previously, I really would like to keep it simple.

 

[gridlock]

Quote:

Although I have not heard the NFB-12, if the DAC in that is as good as the DAC in the D100, it might be better to get the NFB-12 with a M-Stage which would not cost that much more than a D100. I don't own nor have listened to any of the other units on your list so have no opinion about them.

Why not just the NFB-12 (or Sparrow for that matter, since it seems very similar to the NFB-12 but with fewer options) without the M-Stage?  Is the M-Stage really that much better than the amp in the NFB-12 or Sparrow?

 

[igotnojob]

Like I said, I have not heard the NFB-12 to compare. But from my limited experience, the integrated amps in a DAC/Amp combo do not usually compete with good stand-alone amps. I feel that the M-Stage is a superlative amp for its price. I find its performance to be so good that it's hard for me to imagine an integrated amp in a combo unit in this price range competing with it on a level playing field. That said, you could get an NFB-12, try out the amp and if you find that it fulfills your needs, you could skip the extra amp and save yourself some bucks.
 
Your other idea where you would use your pre-existing DACs and get an amp could be a better route. I have found that, unless you have an absolutely ancient, terrible DAC, the newer DACs don't sound that much better. I say the D100 DAC sounds better than the DACs on my iBasso D4 and Audinst HUD-mx1 but the differences are fairly subtle. The difference I hear in amp quality, however, is much more tangible. I think I read another thread here where people ranked the order of their equipment in terms of how much it affected the overall sound. I believe for many it was 1. Headphones 2. Amp and 3. DAC. I wholeheartedly agree with this ranking.

 

[gridlock]

Quote:

Like I said, I have not heard the NFB-12 to compare. But from my limited experience, the integrated amps in a DAC/Amp combo do not usually compete with good stand-alone amps. I feel that the M-Stage is a superlative amp for its price. I find its performance to be so good that it's hard for me to imagine an integrated amp in a combo unit in this price range competing with it on a level playing field. That said, you could get an NFB-12, try out the amp and if you find that it fulfills your needs, you could skip the extra amp and save yourself some bucks.
 
Your other idea where you would use your pre-existing DACs and get an amp could be a better route. I have found that, unless you have an absolutely ancient, terrible DAC, the newer DACs don't sound that much better. I say the D100 DAC sounds better than the DACs on my iBasso D4 and Audinst HUD-mx1 but the differences are fairly subtle. The difference I hear in amp quality, however, is much more tangible. I think I read another thread here where people ranked the order of their equipment in terms of how much it affected the overall sound. I believe for many it was 1. Headphones 2. Amp and 3. DAC. I wholeheartedly agree with this ranking.

 
Hmmm, you've got me thinking about making use of the DAC in the Behringer DEQ2496 and going with a dedicated amp...
 
The only issue with this scenario is that I heard (I've never tried myself) that the analog output stage of the Behringer is not that great.  The digital processing of the unit is quite transparent (IMO) though.
 
I also have a headphone jack in an older Adcom GFP-555 that I have laying around, but my guess is that it's not that great.