AKG K701 unamplified, with cowon D2 player. Does it work?

[66645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whatever people say that this will be loud enough or not, even the 250 ohm DT880's and 300 ohm HD600's will play louder from the same player at the same volume set. Grados will be significantly louder than the latter two, and the Sennheiser's HD595 a bit louder than the Grado's. I'm not convincing you to buy certain headphones, just to give you the references. In other words, the AKG K701's are one of the worst choices for un-amped usage with the mp3 players.

...I guess, Sony MDR SA1000/5000 are the same story?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whatever people say that this will be loud enough or not, even the 250 ohm DT880's and 300 ohm HD600's will play louder from the same player at the same volume set.

No. I can say with certainty that my K 701 is slightly louder than both HD 600 and 650 on every low-impedance headphone out.

Quote:

...In other words, the AKG K701's are one of the worst choices for un-amped usage with the mp3 players.

In principle, yes. But if you really dig its sound -- which I do --, the D2 can drive it to satisfying volume levels and without any audible fatigue. What else do you want!


Quote:

Originally Posted by lelek45 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...I guess, Sony MDR SA1000/5000 are the same story?

No, these are low-impedance headphones with higher efficiency than the K 701. They sound quite different, though (I had the SA5000 and it sounded too artificial to my ears, while others like its pronounced «speed»).
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[Gurra1980]

If you use a high quality player like iAudio/Cowon with good output the sound will be better the better the headphone is. The thing is that a headphone like k701 and HD650 has the ability to scale very well when you upgrade the source and amp. My advice would be to try it out, if you have not listened to them amped I guess the sound will blow you away if you use them stright out of the player and you can always buy an amp in the future if you would like to.

Another thing would be to look at the more easily driven HPs like Denon D2000/5000, audio-technica, Grado, Beyerdynamic DT880/990 32ohm

 

[HardHeadCase]

I think that somone needs to say that maybe you can get the Cowan to drive the 701s loud enough for you to listen, but, you should in no way confuse what you hear as audiophile sound. Some shure 500s or the Yuin PK-2 will give you much better sound from your DAP. I know this because I had no amp when I bought my 701s and it made no difference what I did, they just sounded terrible. Phone jack on my receiver, Ipod head-out. Sound card, laptop headphone jack,,,,etc. I even had myself thinking something was wrong with the 701s, no bass and shrill and kinda like a spike being driven through my head. Then I bought a Headamp Pico and I was able to HEAR my 701s for the first time. No lie, the amp let me go from the gutter to a suite at the Ritz. Get an amp for the 701 or get headphones made to afford you great sound out of your DAP. Your wasting money otherwise. Im listeing to Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands with the Count Basie Orchestra. Frank is talking about Dean being a Drunk. I can hear people using their silverware and moving plates in the audience. I can even tell you the difference between a plate and a drinking glass. That is the stuff the 701 is for and it aint gonna happen from a Digital Audio player.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardHeadCase /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that somone needs to say that maybe you can get the Cowon to drive the 701s loud enough for you to listen, but, you should in no way confuse what you hear as audiophile sound.

Nevertheless, with the iAudio 7 (and likely the D2, too) it's close.

Quote:

Some Shure 500s or the Yuin PK-2 will give you much better sound from your DAP.

I disagree, at least on the E500 (haven't heard the PK-2): Driven by the iAudio 7, the K 701 sounds better to my ears.

Quote:

I know this because I had no amp when I bought my 701s and it made no difference what I did, they just sounded terrible. Phone jack on my receiver, Ipod head-out. Sound card, laptop headphone jack,,,,etc. I even had myself thinking something was wrong with the 701s, no bass and shrill and kinda like a spike being driven through my head. Then I bought a Headamp Pico and I was able to HEAR my 701s for the first time. No lie, the amp let me go from the gutter to a suite at the Ritz. Get an amp for the 701 or get headphones made to afford you great sound out of your DAP. Your wasting money otherwise. Im listeing to Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands with the Count Basie Orchestra. Frank is talking about Dean being a Drunk. I can head peoplle using their silverware and moving plates in the audience. I can even tell you the difference between a plate and a drinking glass. That is the stuff the 701 is for and it aint gonna happen from a Digital Audio player.

You're making generalizations without having heard the combination. I say an amp is only necessary when the volume level is insufficient to the OP. In terms of sound quality the iAudio 7's headphone out is good enough to provide a sound passably close to the Corda Opera (the same files played through its internal DAC). And remember: D2 and i7 don't have line outs. Amplifying the signal from the headphone out can't make it any more accurate, in fact it can only make it more inaccurate. The only thing an amp could cure is the obligatory bass drop-off at low impedances shown by the majority of DAPs. i7 and D2 don't belong to those, though.
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[66645]

OK, THANK you!!

Let's summarize.

First finding: It will work somehow, but far from being as good as it can for the money it costs.

Second: If I want a better portable sound - it's a better choice to go with Sure E500 or something like these... they cost more as well... Will these Shures sound better then K701 on a portable?? This is important point.

And a last question. If I sacrifice portability, what should I buy to drive K701 adequate (without going to details), if my source is a optical digital output from Macintosh?

Sorry for asking many questions

 

[majkel]

I know how loud can Cowon D2 play on the HD595's because I owned that player for a couple of weeks. I didn't leave the D2 for myself because I didn't enjoy its sound signature - narrow and distant soundstage, dry bass and some shrilling on highs when the music is rich on percussion or other treble-heavy material. Overall music presentation - like watching thru an invisible barier, no presence and feeling of being right there.

OK, but being given the maximum volume level possible on the HD595, I'm afraid that when you upload some quietly enocded/recorded files, there will quite probably a problem with the maximum volume. I'm surprised that the D2 plays louder on the K701 than the HD600 - this is an opposite case than a 0 ohm output impedance headphone amplifier - you have to turn up the volume when switching from the HD600 to the K701. But I believe it 'cause I'm not going to verify it - niether the D2 nor the K701 are my cup of tea.

[off topic]SRM-727II is a great amp fo electrostats, anyway...

[/off topic]

 

[66645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know how loud can Cowon D2 play on the HD595's because I owned that player for a couple of weeks. I didn't leave the D2 for myself because I didn't enjoy its sound signature - narrow and distant soundstage, dry bass and some shrilling on highs when the music is rich on percussion or other treble-heavy material. Overall music presentation - like watching thru an invisible barier, no presence and feeling of being right there. OK, but being given the maximum volume level possible on the HD595, I'm afraid that when you upload some quietly enocded/recorded files, there will quite probably a problem with the maximum volume. I'm surprised that the D2 plays louder on the K701 than the HD600 - this is an opposite case than a 0 ohm output impedance headphone amplifier - you have to turn up the volume when switching from the HD600 to the K701. But I believe it 'cause I'm not going to verify it - niether the D2 nor the K701 are my cup of tea. [off topic]SRM-727II is a great amp fo electrostats, anyway... [/off topic]

Thanks for the comments on the COWON - I never listened to it by myself, just read about it. Can you recommend a better sounding portable player?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lelek45 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the comments on the COWON - I never listened to it by myself, just read about it. Can you recommend a better sounding portable player?

You'll find lots of mostly positive reviews about the Cowon players on Head-Fi. I don't agree with majkel's characterisations at all (if the D2 is any similar to the i7, as has been claimed).
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[Gurra1980]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lelek45 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the comments on the COWON - I never listened to it by myself, just read about it. Can you recommend a better sounding portable player?

Noone can do that, the most recomended SQ-wise are cowon/iAudio, sony, creative. Cowon is the onlyone with enought outputpower. Try to get to a HIFI-shop and listen to the K701 once you bought the player. I know my HD-650 sounded better than HD-595 out of my iriver ihp-120, so the D2 might do the job of driving the K701 very well.

 

[majkel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'll find lots of mostly positive reviews about the Cowon players on Head-Fi.

Mostly, it doesn't matter for me. I trust my ears the most. Quote:

I don't agree with majkel's characterisations at all (if the D2 is any similar to the i7, as has been claimed). .

I cannot comment on the i7 because I haven't heard it. I can give some examples of the players I find better sounding than Cowon D2:
iRiver clix2, iRiver ifp-799, Teclast T39, RAmos RM850, Samsung Yp-T9, Meizu M6, RAmos V3 (this is not a joke, however inferior to the other mentioned here), iRiver clix, iPod Shuffle 1st gen.
If someone prefers Cowon D2's sound to any of the above, I'd appreciate an explanation what and why sounds worse in a certain player. I actually listen to flat EQ because I find BBS/SRS/PlayFX B/S. In other words - my ears hardly tolerate it and I perceive it like things getting worse, I can only use classic or parametric EQ's to normalize the headphones' frequency response but actually, hardly ever need it.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lelek45 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And a last question. If I sacrifice portability, what should I buy to drive K701 adequate (without going to details), if my source is a optical digital output from Macintosh? Sorry for asking many questions

You have gotten advice from people with MUCH more experience in head fi than me...BUT

....I wouldn't buy k701 without at least planning on getting an amp eventually.

If you want to use the optical digital out of your Mac (a must imo), you have numerous choices. As you say...sacrificing portability... and if money isn't an issue...I would get a SinglePower Extreme and a Benchmark DAC1.($2000) + good IC cables and powercord. ($$$)

A cheaper option: Heed CanAmp plus a decent DAC with decent IC cables for under a $1000.

For $500...the Pico (Amp/Dac) is an AWESOME "bang for the buck" product imo...and you get portability as a perk.
My rig is: Macbook Pro>Pico> k701. A LOT of SQ for the money, if you ask me. Also, the Pico drives a pair of AudioEngine desktop speakers very nicely.

Good luck!

 

[JaZZ]

majkel... I guess every reviewer -- even those who have come to a positive rating -- has listened with his/her own ears...

So have I. My references are iRiver iFP 899, Archos Gmini 220, iAudio U2 and U3 (and some older Archos HDD players which are too far away to be of relevance here, though). To me the step from the iFP 899 to the U2 has represented a significant increase of resolution and organicalness. The U3 has brought further sonic improvement in the form of a warmer and smoother characteristic. Now the iAudio 7 is again significantly better in terms of resolution: finally it's so good that higher bitrates pay off. Especially classical music -- which wasn't adequadely reproduced on the other players -- benefits from the better high-frequency definition and the smooth and flowing characteristic. I would characterize the sonic balance as quite neutral, neither cold nor warm. The Gmini 220, finally, sounds a bit dry and doesn't reach the i7's refinement, although it also sounds rather accurate, just lacks the i7's musical flow and smoothness. -- Of course the comparisons are made with all effects disabled.

I liked lelek45's initial minimalistic approach: a high-capacity flash player with good and powerful headphone out combined with a high-end headphone of choice. Although the K 701 seems like too hard a load at first glance, in fact it isn't if you can renounce ear-bleeding levels. -- That's my own experience; please take the generalizing advices from people without experience with the combination in question with a grain of salt. -- I highly doubt that any other setup can provide the same sound quality (and the same convenience for the intended use!) for the same price. However, if lelek45 is ready to make compromizes with respect to convenience and price, there are of course better solutions, e.g. a computer rig around a USB-based DAC/amp combo (à la Corda Opera, Cantate, Aria... or some HeadRoom equivalent).
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[ph0rk]

i am, generally, much fonder of closed headphones for pairing with portable players primarily for the isolation. Yes, equivalently priced open phones may sound better but that doesn't matter when you have to crank it to damaging levels to hear over ambient noise.

And closed headphones can sound quite good.

senn HD25's, and beyer dt770 or dt250 (80 ohm versions) can be driven satisfactorily by most any DAP without an amp, and offer decent isolation.

 

[JaZZ]

For outdoor use I would highly recommend the ER-4P -- audiophile delight on the go and a good match with the i7 (hence probably D2, too). At home I would prefer an open headphone, though.
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