[menuki]

If it's correct that the K371 uses titanium drivers, and the K361 does not, then I think you may have hit on one of the main differences between the two headphones. The K361 had a very different sound to me than its more expensive siblings, the K371 and K553 MkII, which both use low-frequency titanium drivers I believe. To my ears, the K361 sounded duller and less articulate than the other two headphones when I recently compared the three at Guitar Center. I definitely preferred the sound of the titanium to the non. Though I agree they can get a bit shiny or harsh sounding if not well-balanced or damped in the higher frequencies.

Fww, this is my attempt at a compensated plot of the K371...



Imo, the K371 had some noticeable bright spots in the treble (which I did not particularly like). And a bit of a depression in the mid bass, which made them a little lacking in some warmth to my ears. Based on the above plot, the bright spot in the treble appears to be mainly in the 8-10 kHz region. Though there is some uneveness in other spots around that as well, in the upper midrange and upper treble. Aside from that, these headphones are pretty neutral sounding. They are just a little punchy at the ends imho.

The graph above is actually the difference between the K371 and the average response of 19 neutral-ish headphone measurements from the Rtings website. This is shown below, along with the 2004 Olive-Welti preferred loudspeaker curve (measured in the ear), and current Harman over-ear headphone target...



To compute the difference curve for the K371, I first averaged the right and left channels together...

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#1671/4011
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#1671/4012

And then subtracted the average of 19 HPs shown above from the combined K371 curve. Here are Rtings compensated plots of the K371 for comparison...

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#1671/3992

Imo, their target response curve is too bright in some spots in the treble. Hence, the deeper depressions in that area on their compensated K371 graph. Both graphs show a bright spot though at ~8-10 kHz in the treble, and some extra emphasis in the sub-bass, and a slight depression above that in the bass. Note that my difference curve extends all the way down to 10 Hz (which is below most people's hearing range), while the Rtings compensated plot ends at 20 Hz.

Fantastic post I have to say, thank you for the graphs!

To be honest, a little bit ouch when it comes to that spike in the treble, and unfortunately this one seems to also trigger my Tinnitus. :/ I will 90% surely settle with the K361 even though it does seem a bit dull compared to the K371. But, they grow on me more and more especially since the Mids are just so gosh darn top notch, and I remember having countless headphones with a rather not so subtle V-Shape which were just fatiquing in the Bass or Treble.

Are the K361 perfect, far from it, since the Soundstage is not the largest and the treble can be a bit too subdued in some tracks - but then again, that reduced treble with the not so big sub-bass compared to the K371 really allows me to crank them up to a nice level where the mids stand out. I reckon they're great for any mid lovers which I definitley am, and they also don't seem to trigger my tinnitus.

This may be pseudoscience, but it always felt to me that plastic drivers in general produce a sound which is easier on the ears perhaps sound pressure wise.. as in, titan drivers as such perhaps create more of that, especially when big bass is present, which may also trigger that tinnitus of mine more.

Just my 2 cents, in case anyone is also on the verge of trying the K361 out.

Also, it would be so fantastic to also see a graph of the K361 for direct comparison.

EDIT:

I found this:

It's interesting what a huge difference the lowered spike has on the K361, and a bit more upper mids it seems? Overall I get the feeling more and more that the K361 is actually the more natural/neutral sounding of the two. From the graph I'd say you also have some nice warm mids, where as on the K371 the sound usually improves to me if I lower that area, especially with male vocals. But, that is all just my opinion of course which I find some may perhaps find interesting.

 

[ADUHF]

Fantastic post I have to say, thank you for the graphs!

Thanks for that.

Based on the above plot, the K361 (amber curve) appears to have a more pronounced spike in the treble than the K371. Here are a couple plots by Oratory1990 though for comparison (since Rtings hasn't reviewed or plotted the K361 yet)...

K361: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmuukl6idppmku6/AKG K361 v2.pdf?dl=0
K371: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ftqm1c13xjcqgv/AKG K371.pdf?dl=0

The raw and compensated plots are on the first graph on the upper left. Raw curves are in orange, and compensated are in red. Oratory1990 uses the Harman curve for compensation. You can expand the charts for fullscreen viewing using the diagonal arrows on the toolbar at the bottom (after closing any ads that appear there). And then zoom in and out with the +/- tools.

 

[klogg4]

These are completely different graphs, I'm confused =)

 

[ADUHF]

These are completely different graphs, I'm confused =)

Me too.

The short explanation is that different compensation curves result in different looking graphs. Which is why some people prefer to look at the raw frequency response curves instead (which can also vary to some degree depending on the measurement system that's being used).

The graph of the K361 and K371 in menuki's post above appears to have been compensated with a diffuse or free field curve, which does not contain a boost in the bass...

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ponses-measured-with-HATS-Sound-source-is.png

...That's probably why both the K371 and K361 look a bit excessively bassy on that plot.

The target response curves used by Rtings, Oratory1990, and myself all contain a bass boost, which is why our compensated/corrected graphs are somewhat closer to a straight line.

The raw measurements are taken within the ear of dummy head. And the compensation curves are primarily designed to remove the resonant effects of the dummy's ears (which are strongest at ~3 kHz) to give a little better idea of the perceived sound of the headphones. Some compensation curves also include a bass boost to emulate the low frequency gain that you get when listening to standard loudspeakers in room. And other compensation curves (mostly the older ones like diffuse-field and free-field) do not.

Some examples of target compensation curves with a bass boost...



https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/raw-frequency-response (see the graphs near the bottom of this page)

 

[thomaslmusic55]

These are completely different graphs, I'm confused =)

It can be. The graph posted by menuki doesn't say what target it was compensated for (in addition to not knowing what type of head measurement system was used) but it is not a 2018 On-ear/Over-Ear Harman target curve that both Rtings.com (starting with their 1.4 test bench) and oratory1990 are based off of. Compensated graphs (i.e. normalize their target to a flat line at 90db for example for all frequencies) shouldn't really be compared unless you know they are using the same reference target when doing their compensation step.

In addition, different head measurement systems can produce minor differences as well thus comparing graphs can be a little apples to oranges. For sites like oratory's and Rtings, comparing measurements within each site puts you on a firmer footing since you know they are using the same standard methodology for all their measurements.

In the end, measurements provide a great frame of reference but one shouldn't get too caught up by the minor variations (in the sonic weeds so to speak ) All our ear lobes are different in shape, ear canals are also unique and we all have the best free equalizer available - your brain.

Personally I find Rtings.com frequency response consistency information to be very valuable since it shows one the variance across different positions/re-seats of headphones. For on/over ears and lower (<= 350Hz) frequencies they do these measurements on real folks (using a calibrated ear canal microphone) so you get to see real world results so to speak. It also gives you an idea of why one user can claim a headphone has too much bass and another may say too little. In addition to subjective perception there can be real objective reasons why this occurs.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/frequency-response-consistency

cheers,


--tom

 

[menuki]

Even more great posts, thank you both for elaborating, that is some great insight - I'm guilty of getting caught up in numbers, graphs and even things like driver material and such, but let's be real, what really matters in the end is whether or not YOU like the sound. Heck, even a headphone which some say sounds "unnatural" may just sound natural to your ears, WITH your ears as @thomaslmusic55 stated above - we all have different ear ergonomics so perhaps no headphone on this world sounds the same for two people at once. Chances are probably better that that is the case with in ears since they skip the whole ear ergnomics thing, but hey, even the ear canal is surely differently shaped just a bit from one to the next.

Anyway... now I'm on the fence again of keeping the K371 instead of the K361, even if the K371 may have a bit of sharper highs, in most songs they simply sound more focused and damn that sub bass is just fantastic. I reckon that I'm also guilty of just overthinking even the most simplest things... I seriously just want to keep either the K371 or K361 and just be happy with my decision - there will never be a perfect headphone, and given that both models are really affordable in my opinion, why contemplate so much. Asking that myself... I just need to calm down, relax, meditate and listen to some of my favorite tunes and just zone out. Isn't this what it's all about in the end, the joy of music?

Pardon my ramble. Hope ya'll have a great evening or day depening on where you live, I'll be lying in comfortabley in my bed now and just listen to some album without even thinking about all the technicalites.

 

[menuki]

Won't win any beauty contests, but this how I added just enough resistence to the adjustment system to not make it slide down when picking them up, it's kitty approved too - it was never a problem when they were on my head, but perhaps this adds a bit of prevention to the mechanism becoming loose over time:

It does hurt the Faux leather a touch initially, but then afterward it's fixed and only slides up and down the metal part, so no damage being done.

Also, I noticed that if I place them a bit further to the front of my ears, so that the back of the pad is touch my ears, they kinda become more comfortable, and it just helps with that little treble spike, or the boosted treble area just enough that I love them even more now. That sub-bass is just... so darn good, and it is hard to believe that these sell for arround 100 bucks. They really do set a new bar for budget headphones... 95% sure that I'll now send back the K361 and just be happy with those titan driver sweeties.

They easily sound better than some 200-300€ headphones I've owned and I greatly prefer their signature to the Meze 99 for example, so in that sense I could literally buy 3 of them to have 2 others as backup. Crazy, well done AKG! Never thought I'd own a AKG headphone anytime soon.. these are just such a happy surprise.


EDIT:

Okay, changed the zip tie and now this is just so perfect:

More than plenty of resistance now, no more accidental sliding ever basically, and I can blindly pull these down and they just fit perfectly - you may want to use some more narrow zip ties depending on the headsize, but this is ideal for my not so small head.

I also applied the zip ties to the front, so that it every so slightly actually applies more force to the front compared to the back, thus my ears touch the driver even less now because they are just a touch tilted! Think angled pads, but not nearly as extreme.

Really no complaints now when it comes to that mechanism overall. Be aware, that this then won't allow you to fold them up though, so this is more for a stationary case. When riding the train or something they are of course also light enough to just be carried around the neck. Perhaps there are even some cases available online just big enough for them anyway unfolded - the included soft "case" will probably help enough anyway to not damage them in the backpack.

 

[bcaulf17]

Won't win any beauty contests, but this how I added just enough resistence to the adjustment system to not make it slide down when picking them up, it's kitty approved too - it was never a problem when they were on my head, but perhaps this adds a bit of prevention to the mechanism becoming loose over time:



It does hurt the Faux leather a touch initially, but then afterward it's fixed and only slides up and down the metal part, so no damage being done.

Also, I noticed that if I place them a bit further to the front of my ears, so that the back of the pad is touch my ears, they kinda become more comfortable, and it just helps with that little treble spike, or the boosted treble area just enough that I love them even more now. That sub-bass is just... so darn good, and it is hard to believe that these sell for arround 100 bucks. They really do set a new bar for budget headphones... 95% sure that I'll now send back the K361 and just be happy with those titan driver sweeties.

They easily sound better than some 200-300€ headphones I've owned and I greatly prefer their signature to the Meze 99 for example, so in that sense I could literally buy 3 of them to have 2 others as backup. Crazy, well done AKG! Never thought I'd own a AKG headphone anytime soon.. these are just such a happy surprise.


EDIT:

Okay, changed the zip tie and now this is just so perfect:


More than plenty of resistance now, no more accidental sliding ever basically, and I can blindly pull these down and they just fit perfectly - you may want to use some more narrow zip ties depending on the headsize, but this is ideal for my not so small head.

I also applied the zip ties to the front, so that it every so slightly actually applies more force to the front compared to the back, thus my ears touch the driver even less now because they are just a touch tilted! Think angled pads, but not nearly as extreme.

Really no complaints now when it comes to that mechanism overall. Be aware, that this then won't allow you to fold them up though, so this is more for a stationary case. When riding the train or something they are of course also light enough to just be carried around the neck. Perhaps there are even some cases available online just big enough for them anyway unfolded - the included soft "case" will probably help enough anyway to not damage them in the backpack.

Only closed back I’ve tried that I like more is the EMU/Fostex but they don’t isolate as well and they’re not portable. Definitely can only use them at home. And even still, the K371 sounds very good in comparison. Kind of a savior for the closed back market below $700 or so, where there are many decent ones, but very little great ones, and I’ve tried quite a few, including those Meze. The K371 really is surprisingly good, whether you like their Harman tuning or not, it’s hard to underestimate how it performs and sounds for its price. Including that bass, which while not the most detailed, manages to sound clear and velvety without sounding overdone or intrusive.

 

[menuki]

Only closed back I’ve tried that I like more is the EMU/Fostex but they don’t isolate as well and they’re not portable. Definitely can only use them at home. And even still, the K371 sounds very good in comparison. Kind of a savior for the closed back market below $700 or so, where there are many decent ones, but very little great ones, and I’ve tried quite a few, including those Meze. The K371 really is surprisingly good, whether you like their Harman tuning or not, it’s hard to underestimate how it performs and sounds for its price. Including that bass, which while not the most detailed, manages to sound clear and velvety without sounding overdone or intrusive.

So true. It's really not even funny how many closed back headphones exist in all price ranges, but it literally feels like 80% of them are not really neutral, or at least close to being neutral. I don't know if the K371 are that close to neutral, but perhaps balanced is a better term. Heck, even the first AEONS from Mr. Speakers which literally cost 10x as much as the AKG K371 were just anemic in the bass and sharp in the treble to me, which was just such a weird surprise. Not interested in bashing his creations though, it's still amazing that he alone designed and built them, and the second generation, the AEON 2's sound pretty fantastic, although they didn't work for me since for some reason the right channel was more quite than the left, but that wasn't beacuse of an imbalance, but rather due to my ear shape. I do NOT have that problem with the K371 the slightest, so at least I know my ears are not broken.

I could go on and on about other closed back headphones, but I have to say that I was a really big fan of the Denon D7000 at least, although the wood cracked after dropping them by just 10cm.. still my fault but that was shocking.

 

[bcaulf17]

So true. It's really not even funny how many closed back headphones exist in all price ranges, but it literally feels like 80% of them are not really neutral, or at least close to being neutral. I don't know if the K371 are that close to neutral, but perhaps balanced is a better term. Heck, even the first AEONS from Mr. Speakers which literally cost 10x as much as the AKG K371 were just anemic in the bass and sharp in the treble to me, which was just such a weird surprise. Not interested in bashing his creations though, it's still amazing that he alone designed and built them, and the second generation, the AEON 2's sound pretty fantastic, although they didn't work for me since for some reason the right channel was more quite than the left, but that wasn't beacuse of an imbalance, but rather due to my ear shape. I do NOT have that problem with the K371 the slightest, so at least I know my ears are not broken.

I could go on and on about other closed back headphones, but I have to say that I was a really big fan of the Denon D7000 at least, although the wood cracked after dropping them by just 10cm.. still my fault but that was shocking.

Yeah that’s why I leave my EMU’s at home, I worry they break just moving them from one room to another lol!

 

[foniak]

I leave the akg371 on the table to not put weight on the plasticky thing instead of hanging them somewhere. Also don't grab them from the loose side.

 

[FlavioWolff]

Won't win any beauty contests, but this how I added just enough resistence to the adjustment system to not make it slide down when picking them up, it's kitty approved too - it was never a problem when they were on my head, but perhaps this adds a bit of prevention to the mechanism becoming loose over time:



It does hurt the Faux leather a touch initially, but then afterward it's fixed and only slides up and down the metal part, so no damage being done.

Also, I noticed that if I place them a bit further to the front of my ears, so that the back of the pad is touch my ears, they kinda become more comfortable, and it just helps with that little treble spike, or the boosted treble area just enough that I love them even more now. That sub-bass is just... so darn good, and it is hard to believe that these sell for arround 100 bucks. They really do set a new bar for budget headphones... 95% sure that I'll now send back the K361 and just be happy with those titan driver sweeties.

They easily sound better than some 200-300€ headphones I've owned and I greatly prefer their signature to the Meze 99 for example, so in that sense I could literally buy 3 of them to have 2 others as backup. Crazy, well done AKG! Never thought I'd own a AKG headphone anytime soon.. these are just such a happy surprise.


EDIT:

Okay, changed the zip tie and now this is just so perfect:


More than plenty of resistance now, no more accidental sliding ever basically, and I can blindly pull these down and they just fit perfectly - you may want to use some more narrow zip ties depending on the headsize, but this is ideal for my not so small head.

I also applied the zip ties to the front, so that it every so slightly actually applies more force to the front compared to the back, thus my ears touch the driver even less now because they are just a touch tilted! Think angled pads, but not nearly as extreme.

Really no complaints now when it comes to that mechanism overall. Be aware, that this then won't allow you to fold them up though, so this is more for a stationary case. When riding the train or something they are of course also light enough to just be carried around the neck. Perhaps there are even some cases available online just big enough for them anyway unfolded - the included soft "case" will probably help enough anyway to not damage them in the backpack.

This fixes it: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/hoz3jk/akg_k371361_headband_slippingfalling_fix/

 

[ADUHF]

Just my opinion... But I think the hinge and headband extender design is awful on the K371!

The K361 is slightly less awful because it only snaps into two positions.

To be fair, I also thought the design of my AKG K553 Pro was pretty awful as well. I don't think AKG or its design team really gets the concept of "ergonomics". Or they wouldn't keep putting out these terrible creations.

 

[menuki]

This fixes it: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/hoz3jk/akg_k371361_headband_slippingfalling_fix/

Thanks for that!

To be honest, I think I like my current system more since it seems to be give longevity resistence wise compared to the screw perhaps simpy becoming loose again. But I might give it a shot eventually.

 

[Mink]

Just my opinion... But I think the hinge and headband extender design is awful on the K371!

The K361 is slightly less awful because it only snaps into two positions.

To be fair, I also thought the design of my AKG K553 Pro was pretty awful as well. I don't think AKG or its design team really gets the concept of "ergonomics". Or they wouldn't keep putting out these terrible creations.

The design of the K553/K550 is excellent. Built quality is really premium-like and ergonomics, on my head and in my hands at least, are just fine. The earpads are a bit too shallow, that's my only critique.