[HuoYuanJia]

Day 1 user here. Definitely no (notable) change in sound, except for the option to change it in the accessibility options. I think the option came only after release.

As @MayaTlab pointed out, getting consistent measurements can be tricky. Even more so when pads are worn.

 

[lindijones]

Day 1 user here and definitely changes in sound over time and firmware updates. (As said, we can discuss that a long time. But it‘s a fact.)

 

[plakat]

Day 1 user here and definitely changes in sound over time and firmware updates. (As said, we can discuss that a long time. But it‘s a fact.)

Please don’t state that as a fact. If Apple decides to say so, that would make it a fact. If someone comes up with a way to measure their FR in a reproducible way, and it shows differences beyond measurement variation, that might make it a fact. Personal perception does not. Our ears are not measurement equipment, too many factors influence hearing day to day. Not even talking about memory (which for fine details lasts only seconds, not days/months/years).

 

[lindijones]

We can discuss that a long time. You can obviously hear the difference as well. (At least me. )
It‘s a fact that Apple changed the sound via Firmware updates. (Btw. also Sony and Samsung have done so.)

Please don’t state that as a fact. If Apple decides to say so, that would make it a fact. If someone comes up with a way to measure their FR in a reproducible way, and it shows differences beyond measurement variation, that might make it a fact. Personal perception does not. Our ears are not measurement equipment, too many factors influence hearing day to day. Not even talking about memory (which for fine details lasts only seconds, not days/months/years).

It is a fact. If you like that or not.

 

[plakat]

It is a fact. If you like that or not.

Since you cannot back this up with anything more than hearsay, this cannot be classified as a fact, regardless of how often you repeat that unsubstantiated claim.

 

[lindijones]

Since you cannot back this up with anything more than hearsay, this cannot be classified as a fact, regardless of how often you repeat that unsubstantiated claim.

Did you see the video links?
It is measured and people are hearing the difference.
So you are saying Apple (or Sony or Samsung or Jabra) do (or did) not change the sound via firmware update?

 

[plakat]

Did you see the video links?
It is measured and people are hearing the difference.
So you are saying Apple (or Sony or Samsung or Jabra) do (or did) not change the sound via firmware update?

What I’m saying is that I don’t see conclusive evidence, no.
I neither say that it’s not possible (sure is) or that it did not happen. But what I insist upon is that it is not a fact, since it is not substantiated other than by hearsay and subjective statements that don’t adequately respect other aspects (much more probable aspects than a firmware update changing the sound signature).
If you believe there were changes for the worse, try keeping the old firmware. Good luck with that anyway… I guess the only way would be to not use them with an iPhone…

 

[lindijones]

What I’m saying is that I don’t see conclusive evidence, no.
I neither say that it’s not possible (sure is) or that it did not happen. But what I insist upon is that it is not a fact, since it is not substantiated other than by hearsay and subjective statements that don’t adequately respect other aspects (much more probable aspects than a firmware update changing the sound signature).
If you believe there were changes for the worse, try keeping the old firmware. Good luck with that anyway… I guess the only way would be to not use them with an iPhone…

I never said there were changes for the worse. (Where did you read that?)
The changes which Apple brought via updates were only for the better. (Thankfully and in my opinion)

 

[plakat]

I never said there were changes for the worse. (Where did you read that?)
The changes which Apple brought via updates were only for the better. (Thankfully and in my opinion)

All the better then if you feel that way.
It was a conditional statement, less targeted at you personally than anyone in general who feels things got worse.

 

[MayaTlab]

Did you see the video links?
It is measured

And as I showed you, I measured no significant differences between two firmwares that span wider than the firmwares Aaron compared. So which one should you follow ?

I will also add that since Aaron seems to find a change in FR with nearly every APP2 firmware Apple released, and often varying up and down per frequency, or between the lighting and USB-C versions, in a completely random way (but mainly within a specific part of the spectrum, ie 600-4kHz), Apple must be complete lunatics if they were constantly tweaking the response in that range in such a way.

What you're seeing with Aaron's measurements is most likely down to a) use of a measurement device that's not ideal for a start (even 711 couplers, clones or genuine GRAS or B&K ones, aren't entirely ideal IMO), b) not using the right procedure to measure them, c) at higher frequencies (6kHz +), a different seating or set of seatings.

So nope, his measurements are no evidence that firmware updates altered the FR.

So you are saying Apple (or Sony or Samsung or Jabra) do (or did) not change the sound via firmware update?

What I'll say is that I found no evidence of a change via firmware update in a 711 clone coupler between the firmwares I measured, when the APP2 is measured according to the right process (which, if you're going to use a sweep to measure it, needs to be properly primed beforehand).

But I think that it's a good deal more complicated than that. Apple monitors the in situ response continuously and modify the response in real time up to around 4kHz, and between around 600-4kHz seems to require a broad signal to reach a stable response (it's not a straightforward ANC feedback system that they're using, and while I think that I am starting to understand some of its behaviour, I'd still like to learn more about it). I am sympathetic to the idea that they refined the way the adaptive algorithms work - I personally experienced what I'd consider a somewhat unstable response and ANC performance with early firmwares (ex : https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/airpods-pro-2.37164/post-1349127) -, and that to a given individual this may have resulted in a change over time, but there's just no evidence for it other than subjective impressions (including my own), and I don't think that it's ever been meant to change the intended tuning but rather to deliver it more reliably.

 

[lindijones]

I will also add that since Aaron seems to find a change in FR with nearly every APP2 firmware Apple released, and often varying up and down per frequency, or between the lighting and USB-C versions, in a completely random way (but mainly within a specific part of the spectrum, ie 600-4kHz), Apple must be complete lunatics if they were constantly tweaking the response in that range in such a way.

Exactly that’s it what happened!
You can even hear the difference between the Airpods Pro 2 Lightning and USB-C version very easily!
And Apple did adjustments for these two versions in different updates at different times which was confusing of course. But Aaron is absolutely right. The last few updates contained a lot sound changes. And Aaron shows that perfectly consistent to what you hear when are using AirPods Pro 2 (Lightning and USB-C side by side) all day.
I am getting a feeling that you should check your measurements regarding the tolerances.

 

[MayaTlab]

Exactly that’s it what happened!
You can even hear the difference between the Airpods Pro 2 Lightning and USB-C version very easily!

I own three samples of the APP2. This is six earbuds in total (two from a version with lighting port manufactured in the fifth week of october 2022, four from two USB-C versions, three manufactured in the second week of november 2023, one in the fourth week of october 2023). This how they differ with the same firmware (6B34), with ANC on, all primed as best as I could and all positioned as consistently as I could in the canal extension of the clone coupler. I averaged the six responses, flattened it, and what you see is the difference between each earbuds and the average. The first graph is not normalised (so what you see here also is the difference in "sensitivity", albeit in the case of the APP2 it isn't the sensitivity of the driver per se because of the adaptive algorithms), the second is normalised at 500Hz.

I don't see anything that I couldn't attribute to sample variation and seatings to seatings variation at higher frequencies (+ slight difference in terms of sample variation at high frequencies between modes where the feedback circuit is on or off). The difference between the two versions is also inconsistent with Aaron's graph with that firmware (whether in magnitude or direction).

BTW I believe that this is a pretty good result, here compared with six earbuds of the Moondrop Chu, same method (not normalised), which performs well compared to the other passive IEMs for which I've been able to compare several samples :

And Apple did adjustments for these two versions in different updates at different times which was confusing of course. But Aaron is absolutely right. The last few updates contained a lot sound changes. And Aaron shows that perfectly consistent to what you hear when are using AirPods Pro 2 (Lightning and USB-C side by side) all day.
I am getting a feeling that you should check your measurements regarding the tolerances.

I am getting a feeling that you should ask Aaron what his test equipment and methodology is first before coming to conclusions, and have a lot to learn about measurements in general.

 

[plakat]

Well said @MayaTlab
Measurements are hard, but look easy at the surface. That leads to misunderstandings…

 

[Roybenz]

The video is for AirPods pro, but were takling about the apm ?

 

[Double-A]

Wow! There seems to be a lot of arrogant people and trolls on Head-Fi . . .

Why are people so emotionally invested in convincing others that their perception of reality is reality itself. Everyone experiences the world differently and that’s OK.

If you enjoy the way your headphones sound, then enjoy your headphones and move on. There doesn’t need to be an argument to win here.

Guess what? In a hundred years from now, all of us watching this thread will be long dead and nobody will care about minute differences in frequency response with airpods due to firmware updates.

Such a silly hill to die on.