[kazsud]

Well the audiogram seems to make a positive impact on my AirPods. Appears to lighten the sound signature. Without the audiogram the sound is veiled to my ears.

What is audiogram?

 

[lindijones]

What is audiogram?

Basically the result of a hearing test. (Hearing loss curve)

 

[Roybenz]

Did it change in sound after release as some said? Is this the consensus that it’s brighter than before?

 

[musicday]

If I had this headphones I would remove the electronics inside and the battery and solder directly high quality cables to and use them like that.

 

[lindijones]

Did it change in sound after release as some said? Is this the consensus that it’s brighter than before?

Yes.

 

[plakat]

If I had this headphones I would remove the electronics inside and the battery and solder directly high quality cables to and use them like that.

Strange idea… I think you could get a similar result for cheaper. I don’t think Apple put all those electronics there just for the fun of it…

 

[MayaTlab]

If I had this headphones I would remove the electronics inside and the battery and solder directly high quality cables to and use them like that.

That's a poor idea as the acoustics are entirely designed to be used with active systems constantly monitoring the response and adjusting on the fly to deliver a constant response up to several hundred Hz regardless of fit.

Did it change in sound after release as some said? Is this the consensus that it’s brighter than before?

I have not been personally able to measure a difference that I couldn't attribute to other factors as well such as pads breaking in, sample variation, or seatings to seatings / averages to averages variation : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...noise-cancelling-headphone.25609/post-1659938

The most recent measurement that I have seen by some margin is LMG's, on a 5128. It tracks well Jude's measurement (which was done soon after release) up to 4kHz. Above that the differences can be attributed to seatings to seatings variation (including variance in operators' process). Soundguys' measurements were performed in between, and the differences seen can be attributed to different seatings / operator's measurement process among other variables.

I don't want to negate other people's impressions, but I don't think that there's any evidence yet of a deliberate change in tuning over time via a firmware update.

 

[lindijones]

That's a poor idea as the acoustics are entirely designed to be used with active systems constantly monitoring the response and adjusting on the fly to deliver a constant response up to several hundred Hz regardless of fit.



I have not been personally able to measure a difference that I couldn't attribute to other factors as well such as pads breaking in, sample variation, or seatings to seatings / averages to averages variation : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...noise-cancelling-headphone.25609/post-1659938

The most recent measurement that I have seen by some margin is LMG's, on a 5128. It tracks well Jude's measurement (which was done soon after release) up to 4kHz. Above that the differences can be attributed to seatings to seatings variation (including variance in operators' process). Soundguys' measurements were performed in between, and the differences seen can be attributed to different seatings / operator's measurement process among other variables.




I don't want to negate other people's impressions, but I don't think that there's any evidence yet of a deliberate change in tuning over time via a firmware update.

At least for the AirPods Pro 2 you get the evidence in the videos of „Aaronloudnwireless“ on YouTube.

 

[plakat]

At least for the AirPods Pro 2 you get the evidence in the videos of „Aaronloudnwireless“ on YouTube.

If this is some of those sound samples on YouTube, I don’t think that’s a good way to document minute changes (if there are any at all)

 

[lindijones]

If this is some of those sound samples on YouTube, I don’t think that’s a good way to document minute changes (if there are any at all)

He also does measurements. Here is one screenshot of his really nice videos:

 

[plakat]

He also does measurements. Here is one screenshot of his really nice videos:

That looks like being within tolerance / variance

 

[MayaTlab]

He also does measurements. Here is one screenshot of his really nice videos:

This is worth a longer reply that I may be able to write this week end.

For a start, do we know which ear simulator Aaron uses ? These measurements probably weren't made in an ear simulator such as a 711 coupler (whether an original from B&K or GRAS, or a decent Aliexpress clone) or a 5128 - and to some extent this matters for the APP2.

To make it short : the main differences Aaron records in various videos on APP2 firmware tend to be around 800-5kHz after normalisation. This is a range where the APP2 perform active equalisation, but not using the usual ANC feedback system that's common to most ANC headphones with an inward facing mic. You need to follow a certain measurement process to properly characterise them in that range, and even after quite a bit of testing on my end, I still don't fully understand what Apple is trying to do in that part of the spectrum.

Without knowing exactly the procedure and ear simulator Aaron uses, it's entirely possible that most of the differences he measured can de down to measurement procedures rather than a deliberate change via firmware update.

If I may, a majority of the measurements online of the APP2 are not following the proper procedures to measure them and are not necessarily representative of what you'll experience.

The following graph was obtained using a clone 711 coupler from Aliexpress (please DO NOT compare the absolute values with other measurements for several reasons, such as volume level, ear tip used, position in the 711 canal extension, quality of the clone coupler, etc.). This is just one seating (the APP2 weren't moved), one firmware, one volume level, one earbud, one test signal (a sweep, and the same one). The difference ? The measurement procedure.

 

[lindijones]

This is worth a longer reply that I may be able to write this week end.

For a start, do we know which ear simulator Aaron uses ? These measurements probably weren't made in an ear simulator such as a 711 coupler (whether an original from B&K or GRAS, or a decent Aliexpress clone) or a 5128 - and to some extent this matters for the APP2.

To make it short : the main differences Aaron records in various videos on APP2 firmware tend to be around 800-5kHz after normalisation. This is a range where the APP2 perform active equalisation, but not using the usual ANC feedback system that's common to most ANC headphones with an inward facing mic. You need to follow a certain measurement process to properly characterise them in that range, and even after quite a bit of testing on my end, I still don't fully understand what Apple is trying to do in that part of the spectrum.

Without knowing exactly the procedure and ear simulator Aaron uses, it's entirely possible that most of the differences he measured can de down to measurement procedures rather than a deliberate change via firmware update.

If I may, a majority of the measurements online of the APP2 are not following the proper procedures to measure them and are not necessarily representative of what you'll experience.

The following graph was obtained using a clone 711 coupler from Aliexpress (please DO NOT compare the absolute values with other measurements for several reasons, such as volume level, ear tip used, position in the 711 canal extension, quality of the clone coupler, etc.). This is just one seating (the APP2 weren't moved), one firmware, one volume level, one earbud. The difference ? The measurement procedure.

We can discuss that a long time. You can obviously hear the difference as well. (At least me. )
It‘s a fact that Apple changed the sound via Firmware updates. (Btw. also Sony and Samsung have done so.)

 

[plakat]

We can discuss that a long time. You can obviously hear the difference as well. (At least me. )
It‘s a fact that Apple changed the sound via Firmware updates. (Btw. also Sony and Samsung have done so.)

As far as I know Apple never said anything to that effect. And therefore I would not say this is an established fact — ears are not measurement devices after all, and I think there’s too much thinking about sound signature changes while actual changes are probably more about ANC optimization of its anything audio related at all. But all in all I think that what Apple does with its dynamic adaption makes a/b comparisons more than hard and very unreliable — there’s lots of possibilities the system sees different circumstances and changes sound parameters. Like @MayaTlab showed above.

 

[MayaTlab]

We can discuss that a long time. You can obviously hear the difference as well. (At least me. )
It‘s a fact that Apple changed the sound via Firmware updates. (Btw. also Sony and Samsung have done so.)

I have not kept track of every firmware change and I've progressively learnt how to deal with their active systems, but there you go, for these two I'm confident that it's the same earbud at the same volume level, and that they were reasonably well primed :

I slightly increased the damping of the clone coupler I used for these measurements in between, the difference in the treble could come from that. Or a slightly different set of seatings, IDK.

Perhaps it could still be possible that for a given individual, a change in the adaptive systems resulted in a change at the eardrum ?