[MICHAELSD]

I think they targeted the APM toward those who are entrenched in the apple ecosystem and wanted wireless headphones that were apple and not Beats. It's hard to call any Bluetooth device truly "audiophile". It'd be nice if they could've done a better wired solution. Personally, I prefer APM to my Sony WH1000XM4 due to the integration into the ecosystem alone.

Since data storage is getting cheaper and cheaper and internet speeds are getting faster, there is much less need for audio compression. Why not provide the highest quality possible lossless stream and let the end user decide how they want to listen to the music? I like the way streaming services are going.

I can't imagine many people springing over $500 to buy APM 2 when we just shelled out $550 for APM. But you are absolutely correct, audiophiles do like to spend money chasing the extra 5% improvement.

I guess we will see.

I would consider it 100% “audiophile” if they can provide uncompressed lossless over wireless. At that point it’s just data, and wires begin to become obsolete.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I would consider it 100% “audiophile” if they can provide uncompressed lossless over wireless. At that point it’s just data, and wires begin to become obsolete.

Agreed.

However, there is no current Bluetooth option that passes on uncompressed 16/44 data. If Apple cracked this code, I'd even consider giving it a shot. Since the APM has no Wifi capability (that we know) Airplay and it's variants are out.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Agreed.

However, there is no current Bluetooth option that passes on uncompressed 16/44 data. If Apple cracked this code, I'd even consider giving it a shot. Since the APM has no Wifi capability (that we know) Airplay and it's variants are out.

I’m a little spoiled in this regard since it doesn’t matter to me if they have, although I still assume they did for them to offer it at all.

I’ll be streaming most of my Apple Lossless to an absolutely gorgeous Harman/Kardon sound system over wireless CarPlay.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Agreed.

However, there is no current Bluetooth option that passes on uncompressed 16/44 data. If Apple cracked this code, I'd even consider giving it a shot. Since the APM has no Wifi capability (that we know) Airplay and it's variants are out.

If the reports of the ultra wideband bandwidth are correct, it should have plenty available to handle a 16/44.1 ALAC (if not much higher). I'm curious if it's technically possible for Apple to use W1/H1 headphones like this.

 

[MayaTlab]

If the reports of the ultra wideband bandwidth are correct, it should have plenty available to handle a 16/44.1 ALAC (if not much higher). I'm curious if it's technically possible for Apple to use W1/H1 headphones like this.

From what I understand ultra-wideband may require a different antenna design than BT or Wifi. This can be seen on U1 enabled iPhones where the UWB antennas are cutouts at the back of the iPhone :

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/126000#s243578

While I don't know if ultra-wideband can be used for wireless audio in applications similar to audio over bluetooth for headphones, it's already happened with microphones systems : https://audioxpress.com/news/altero...d-wireless-microphone-system-with-new-options

 

[Mediahound]

The reason why  is now going lossless and high res streaming is because bandwidth these days can easily support it. They couldn't have offered it 10 years ago or whenever they started Music because the average household's internet speed was only 2-5Mbps. Today it's more like 50-1,000Mbps.

 has to do very little to make the switch since they have already had the lossless and high res. files stored in their systems all this time as they have required them from the labels since the very beginning.

 

[yticolev]

While I don't know if ultra-wideband can be used for wireless audio in applications similar to audio over bluetooth for headphones, it's already happened with microphones systems : https://audioxpress.com/news/altero...d-wireless-microphone-system-with-new-options

That appears to be a one-off proprietary system. Calling something UWB doesn't mean that it is compliant to a standard. Supposedly Apple's implementation is an open standard from Car Connectivity Consortium (designed for things like car entry) and while that is a short range data transfer system, I can find no references to audio. If Apple uses UWB for audio, that implementation might be proprietary as well. We are simply making up Apple rumors at this point.

 

[AlexCross]

The reason why  is now going lossless and high res streaming is because bandwidth these days can easily support it. They couldn't have offered it 10 years ago or whenever they started Music because the average household's internet speed was only 2-5Mbps. Today it's more like 50-1,000Mbps.

 has to do very little to make the switch since they have already had the lossless and high res. files stored in their systems all this time as they have required them from the labels since the very beginning.

And the APM are not supporting it. Too bad…

 

[neverover]

I know I’m late to the party, but after spending some time with AirPods Max, I finally get my own impression with it. It’s pretty clear that they have a U shaped sound. A bit similar with Sennheiser HD25, but with way better sound stage and separation. I think that is where the AI really come into place, they enhance the separation and soundstage. I can see people who are into mids won’t be too excited with this though. They focus on the bass and highs, although the highs might be not as harsh as most hifi headphones are. Which I really like, because sharp “s” can be fatiguing for me in extended period. AirPods Max in the other hand is very pleasant for hours of music.

The noise cancellation is also very good. As far of ANC, I only have tried Sony XM4, and APM is way superior. APM have more natural noise cancellation white noise as it don’t give you the “suction” feeling when you put them on. Sounds way more natural for me. Transparency mode is also very good, a bit like a hearing aid as it enhance your surroundings and amplify it with 6 mic. Very convenient if you’re about to cross the street while wearing these.

Being an Apple product also means a great product support. My first pair had issue with the button and when I bring it to the apple store, they just give me a replacement right away. Being a big company, I’d say there should be some assurance in securing some parts of the device, say it failed 5 years along the road. Not to mention that they are very modular and easy to fix.

What’s interesting is on AI enhancement, like if it was given a proper input, they can made it bigger with spatial audio. I can really see this coming with enhancement on Apple Music. If they can master their tracks with Dolby sound and spatial audio, it can be huge audio improvements with AirPods Max without having them to have lossless capability.
What’s interesting is on AI enhancement, like if it was given a proper input, they can made it bigger with spatial audio. I can really see this coming with enhancement on Apple Music. If they can master their tracks with Dolby sound and spatial audio, it can be huge audio improvements with AirPods Max without having them to have lossless capability.

 

[tinyman392]

I forgot if I posted this. But I was able to find a headphone stand that didn’t put strain on the headband mesh. No magnets though for sleep mode.

 

[jagwap]

Agreed.

However, there is no current Bluetooth option that passes on uncompressed 16/44 data. If Apple cracked this code, I'd even consider giving it a shot. Since the APM has no Wifi capability (that we know) Airplay and it's variants are out.

Airplay is not lossless. It is nearly, and near enough for most, but they screwed it up and people here may care.

 

[mammal]

Airplay is not lossless. It is nearly, and near enough for most, but they screwed it up and people here may care.

What makes you believe Airplay is altering the stream and not delivering it bit perfect. When I was reading through WWDC slides, it only said that they are encrypting the stream, not compressing it in any way. There is a limitation of course, it will be downsampled if you try to play anything above CD quality. Could you provide us a link to technical specs/documents or tell us why you think Airplay is not lossless? Thanks

 

[tinyman392]

Airplay is not lossless. It is nearly, and near enough for most, but they screwed it up and people here may care.

You’ll need to explain this one further. AirPlay streams are encoded as 44.1k/16bit ALAC. Sent over an encrypted stream. The only time degradation should occur is if you have a very weak WiFi signal.

 

[mammal]

The only time degradation should occur is if you have a very weak WiFi signal.

And that is because it is UDP stream, which will not retransmit lost packets.

 

[Bhelpoori]

And that is because it is UDP stream, which will not retransmit lost packets.

It is RTP (UDP with a header) with retransmission... Just because it is UDP doesn't preclude retransmission... you just have to handle it yourself or use the relevant RFC (RFC 4588).

Also, given that ALAC is max 2Mbps and is usually much less, it hardly stresses modern WiFi radios, so if it doesn't go through there's probably something else going on. You'd need to be completely on the edge of coverage where the radio has almost given up to get throughput that low.