AirPods Max
Dec 26, 2020 at 5:25 PM Post #1,696 of 5,654
I got asked some question by another member of the forum and also needed to do a head to head between the APM and my B&O H95s to decide which one I would keep. So I sat down today and did some listening and less than halfway through my intended testing I had come to a clear conclusion. In case my testing helps anyone else I thought I might as well publish it here.

TLDR: B&O H95 have a mid-bass problem and are going bye bye.


A note about the author:
I don’t muck around with sound modes, settings or EQ very often. I think a headphone (any product really) should sound good out of the box on the standard settings. I don’t want to change settings for every third song to get the perfect sound, I don’t want to be forced into installing a buggy app (which they stop supporting after two years) to make something work as intended. Or having to dig into the settings while waving my phone in the air and doing a treble dance followed by a bass jig to get the “correct sound” out if this “excellent product” that just “needs some adjustments”. If it isn’t good out of the box, it isn’t for me. This is also why I stopped having two phones and have stuck with iPhone over Android. I am getting too old to tinker, and my time is too valuable.


Some listening impressions


I start off by listening to my main rig to get a baseline for what it should sound like (to me), quickly followed by the two ANC headphones, alternating which ones goes first to try and not give one advantage over the other. I won’t be giving a view on the Empyrean unless it is for a very specific comparison, that’d be like bringing a tank to a gun-fight.

The ANC headphones:

All songs played were apple lossless from my iPhone, played via Bluetooth, both headphones were set to default tuning (i.e. no accommodations on APM and standard EQ on the B&O) and ANC on (full) since that is one of the main benefits/purposes of these types of headphones.

Main rig:

Apple lossless files played in iTunes (so the source file is the same) over USB to my RME ADI-2 DAC FS connected via an ultra-low capacitance litz cable (from Custom cans UK) to my trusty Empyrean using the leather pads.

The choice of music - I used a few tracks I know fairly well which I regularly have in rotation and which I normally use to test headphones, amps, speakers etc.


Babymetal - Karate

This track is great for listening to issues with artificial treble due to how it is produced, with an inherent artificial sound which comes from overproducing the music. The track also has a lot of bass and recessed mids so a great track to stress-test V-shaped headphones.

On the H95 the treble is artificial, splashy and littered with artifacts. The bass is slightly muddy but with a decent mid-bass kick. Overall it sounds ok except for the treble as the cymbals are completely off and unnatural.

The APM manages to tame the artifical treble and it sounds almost as natural as on my main rig, which was very impressive. The bass lacks a mid-bass kick but the sub-bass is there and not far off competing with my Empy’s (for this element only). The APM did well with this track, keeping it enjoyable and fun.


Alison Krauss – Living Prayer

A great track for testing sibilance control and high notes from female vocals, as well as seeing how it deals with finer details and reverberations.

On the APM I hear more of the guitar reverberations immediately, Alison’s voice is a bit more recessed in the room and some of the immediacy is removed, but not a lot. Her voice is softer than on the H95, the sibilant S’s are still there but lack the sharpness and metallic tone from the H95, although they may be slightly more pronounced. Since her voice isn’t so front and centre the APM manages to move through the highest pats without it feeling like they’ve cut off the highest notes.

On the H95 the overall focus is clearly on Alison’s voice, her voice sounds slightly sibilant with a metallic edge, in particular in the high notes. The guitars are clear and fairly natural sounding but I don’t get the full image of reverberation from the lower guitar-string plucks, and they stay in the background. On the highest notes from Alison the H95 also does not let her voice resonate fully making it feel cut-off and a bit supressed, yet with a metallic edge. Overall it does sound good, but is not my favourite rendition.


Devin Townsend – Deadhead (Live from the Royal Albert Hall)

A great track recoded live in one of the greatest music venues on earth. The mix is difficult to get sounding right, and prefers speakers over headphones, so a good test for enjoyment.

Wow the mid-bass hump on the H95 really comes through here and plasters mud all over the soundstage. The main thing I hear is the kickdrum, and it isn’t sounding good. The cymbals are fairly controlled here, not having the trademark H95 issue, but I really need to listen out for them, and Devin sounds slightly recessed. One positive element I can note is the crowd does sound fairly big and during a lull in the music you do get a bit of a feeling of being there, but then that kick-drum comes in again. I stopped part-way through, I think that says it all.

On the APM the scale of the crowd is still here, and the soundstage might even be slightly better, but not by much. The kickdrum comes in and is very much still a big part of the mix but it now re-enforces the tempo of the song instead of taking it over. The sub-bass adds rumble and the whole recording sounds much more enjoyable, even if the mids feel a tad thin. Devin is still a bit recessed; the cymbals are clearer and might even have a bit more detail, including some which I’m not sure I heard on the B&O. It isn’t quite where I would like it (this track sounds amazing on my HD800S), but it is a good representation.


Eagles – Journey of the Sorcerer

Great instrumental track which lets you listen out for overlapping reverberations and echoes. And a great track to boot!

I’m surprised by the immediacy on the APM, I’d have expected it to be more recessed than the Empys. The reverberations are significantly reduced, all the main elements are here and sound fairly correct, but the reverberation and scale isn’t quite here. The drums lack a little bit of the bite as well, but overall it sounds great and better than expected.

On the H95 it feels like I get a bit more of the scale and echoes than I did on the APM, it feels slightly larger, but the reverberations are missing just like on the APM. The drums don’t sound great however, they are muddy and indistinct. The H95 is doing surprisingly well with the high note guitar plucks, even retaining some reverberation at the cost of a slightly metallic timbre. The cymbals sound excellent here which I wouldn’t have expected considering how poorly it has done on some music in the past. Overall they’ve done a decent job with the drums being the biggest let-down. I think it even managed to eeek out a bit more detail than the APM.


In this moment – In the air tonight

A great cover of the Phil Colins track. Maria’s voice has both strength and frailty which works well with the structure of the song, the significant reliance on bass in the background makes for a good mud test.

The H95 starts out well, with a wide image and scale, but starts stumbling the second the bass kicks in. The balance of the track is way off, it feels immediately closed off and saggy. Normally the bass notes give an oppressive atmosphere which is cut through by Maria’s sharp vocals, but on the H95 all I hear is mud with Maria’s voice hiding somewhere in the middle. In the move to the crescendo of the track it does improve, as it calls for a bit of mid-bass for impact, but it still muddy and indistinct, so not much of an improvement.

Now this is better, on the APM the bass is handled in almost the right way, it is more oppressive and feels like it surrounds you, with Maria’s voice solitary and sharp in the middle of the soundstage. Her voice lacks a little bit of bite overall, but is a clear improvement. The crescendo lacks the proper kick in the bass but gets a fair bit of weight from the sub-bass. Overall a much better showing and clearly helped by the lack of mid-bass hump.


Jinjer – I speak astronomy

A belter of a track with so much speed and varying arrangements, moving from claustrophobic and frenetic to spacious and mellow as well as Tatiana’s switch between clean and growl makes this a great track to test the speed and coherence of your headphones/speakers.

The APM kick off by clearly showing a slight lack in the mid-bass, with a lack of bite from the kickdrums in the opening, but overall it manages to keep the section together fairly well but some details are missing including the normal immediacy and bite. It sounds a little bit like the driver can’t quite keep up with the track in all places, it also lacks some scale in the latter parts, but I would guess the APM is doing fairly well for a closed-back.

The H95 starts off with a lot more thump but also a lot more mud, it’s just everywhere. And it isn’t coming off, I’m starting to think this headphone has a problem with kickdrums. The Cymbals and high hats have a lot of sparkle if you listen for them, and there might be some details from the bass guitar which wasn’t on the APM but it is hard to pick things out of all this mud. It clearly has more scale than the APM in the latter sections, showing off a bit more speed. But oh god the mud!


Katatonia – Unfurl (Live in London)

A nice acoustic set in a church which of course gives enormous scale and so many little details to listen out for.

The H95 starts strong by picking up some minor crowd and ambient noises as well as representing the scale quite well. The bass guitar is given a tad too much space with a very loud strum swallowing up some of the scale, while that is toned down somewhat by the mix after the opening it is still emphasised too much throughout. The guitars have too much of a metallic timbre, while they sound sparkly they are a bit unnaturally so. Jonas’ voice lacks some of the emotion and the track sounds overall lacklustre compared with what I’m used to.

The APM also picks up most of the ambient noises but they are not as clear, and the scale is smaller almost as if you were in just about any room. However, the APMs have the bass guitar well under control, allowing the percussion and guitars to come through. The guitars are nice and sparkly with much less of the metallic edge from the H95. I can hear a lot more details from the instruments and the emotion is back in Jonas’ voice, even if it isn’t getting all the way.


Conclusion


Anyone want to buy a pair of B&O H95?

On a more serious note, the H95 has shown itself to a have real mid-bass issue. It presents itself clearly and matched the first impression I had when I first got the headphones. This was something I tried to justify away, I think in large part due to their extortionate price (for a ANC headphone) and the fact I managed to get one of the numbered pair. But since buying them in September I haven’t actually listened to them that much.

The pandemic has meant I don’t get as much time with my over ear ANC headphones (normally worn when commuting), and I tend to wear my APP on my morning walks as the ANC isn’t wind sensitive unlike the H95. The APMs might change that since trying this morning, not only did they deal with the wind noise, they also fit under my hood when it started raining.

The AMP are clearly a better sounding headphone (to me) than the H95 with standard settings and ANC on. It also has better integration to the Apple ecosystem which over the years I have become fairly invested into. So it is very likely the H95s will go sometime soon, as I can’t justify owning a pair of £700 headphones I’ll never listen to. Even if they are limited edition and uniquely numbered.

The APM are not perfect, I’d like a bit more midrange and they could shed a few grams to be honest (fatty!), and I hate the fact they have a lightning port instead of USB-C. But they are (for me) the better of the two ANC headphones so will get to stay. They will not replace any desktop setups I have, and are not the best things since sliced bread. They are a solid first (over ear)headphone from Apple, and I’m a happy owner who looks forward to trying the next iteration in a couple of years.

Hopefully that was helpful for someone other than just myself.

Wow! I think we can’t hearing this 2 headphones more differently.
When I comparing the APM and H95, for me, apart from our similar opinions of the mids, I thinking sometimes of the APM with the words muddy and veil. And I have h800 (not S version) and hd600.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 5:31 PM Post #1,697 of 5,654
I’m looking at buying one. But not a simple vertical stand with a horizontal hook. I’d rather get one shaped like the Greek letter Omega.

I’m torn by the whole concept of headphone stands because while some of the stands are pretty nice, I don’t really see the benefit, since the stand takes up space on your desk anyways. And if you have a whole bunch of pairs of headphones, you need a whole bunch of headphone stands. It seems like a it doesn’t actually solve the clutter problem.

To me, a better solution is to either go with a rack that can hold several pairs, or to go with hooks you can attach to the wall. That’s what I’m looking at. I’m thinking of getting 4-6 hooks and attaching them to the side of a tall cabinet, so that the headphones are all hanging on the wall together. I’m just not sure what to get because the hooks I’ve seen don’t seem great and they’re all overpriced, at $10-$15 a piece. Spending $60-$90 to get 6 hooks seems like an awful lot to me.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 5:38 PM Post #1,698 of 5,654
Wow! I think we can’t hearing this 2 headphones more differently.
When I comparing the APM and H95, for me, apart from our similar opinions of the mids, I thinking sometimes of the APM with the words muddy and veil. And I have h800 (not S version) and hd600.

You’re not allowed to have a different impression. One of you is wrong about what you heard! Probably you, because I think the APM are better.



*sarcasm*
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:06 PM Post #1,699 of 5,654
Oh man the anti apple (irrational) sentiment is strong as ever. Youre right, ive seen countless of reviewe saying headphone X punches $300, $500 heck even $1000 above its weight, nobody bats at an eye, if anything they clamour for joy at a value king.

But even a whiff of the apm punching above its weight irritated people. It’s hilariously stupid.
I get both sides to this argument/debate. However, Apple products get unfairly lifted in their reviews due to their status more than attributes. I've listened to all Air Pods but the Max and I've never been impressed. Yet, somehow, I still want a set of them:)
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:09 PM Post #1,700 of 5,654
Excellent comparison. My thoughts between these two headphones are very similar to yours. If you’re not in the Apple eco system I would still recommend the H95 if money were no object. It supports more codecs and is still comparable in sound. But for Apple users, the APM sound better to my ears, have better ANC and transparency, handles wind noise better, has the better mic for phone calls, are more comfortable for my head and ears, and are the better value. For me it was a no brainer. Sold both my H95 and my Sony 1000XM4 which I used for travel. For some Apple users I’m sure it could be different just from a sound, fit, and comfort perspective.

Thank you. Yes I would tend to agree, if I was using android the H95 would likely be the more flexible option and it is possible the aptx would result in better sound than the android AAC implementation. Doubt it would fix that mid-bass hump but if I was on Android the APM would most likely be out of the running, so suddenly the H95 becomes the best option of an even worse bunch.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:15 PM Post #1,701 of 5,654
It is great to see someone hearing similar things. The bass is lower, more under control, while the sub-bass nicely fills the space. The vocals may not be louder as they may be in other headphones, but they have clarity.

Thank you for sharing your observations!

They may not be the “best thing since sliced bed,” but they certainly aren’t $100 of audio with a $550 price tag!
Thank you for your detailed, rigorous and cogent comparison, tkddans!
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:23 PM Post #1,702 of 5,654
The system is obviously able to measure way faster than 200hz otherwise neither ANC nor adaptive EQ would work above that frequency. My guess is that the mic is capable of recording at a much higher frequency and that ANC works up to around 1000hz, while that the Adaptive EQ part of the equation may work at a slightly higher frequency but that the FR is "updated" at a lower rate (200hz) as it's meant to play a different role from ANC (ie adjust for fit / seal variations) ?
I think the Apple quote is that is how often the sound is adjusted, 200 times a second, not audio frequency. Personally I'm amazed by the speed of ANC, I keep looking behind me to see if car doors and house doors actually closed and latched. As the H1 is capable of billions of calculations per second, it is possible that adjusting the time 200 times a second is all that is required in human terms. I'd bet more times a second is possible.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:33 PM Post #1,703 of 5,654
Yeah, 30 dB is redulous and I question the accuracy. The thing about these hearing tests are for practical hearing up to 8k that's all they are concerned with. Tolerance is likely high for inaccuracy because they just need to know you can hear necessary sounds for everyday fuction. To know our hearing for better music enjoyment, our hearing should be sweeped with greater granularity, not just some points and connect the dots. That wpuld be much more precise to know what responses we should look for and EQ.
I believe even professional audiogram are mapped at eight discrete frequencies from 250Hz to 8kHz and -30db at 8kHz seems an average hearing loss for 40-49 year old males according the data I had found and posted.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:33 PM Post #1,704 of 5,654
Wow! I think we can’t hearing this 2 headphones more differently.
When I comparing the APM and H95, for me, apart from our similar opinions of the mids, I thinking sometimes of the APM with the words muddy and veil. And I have h800 (not S version) and hd600.

There can be a number of factors, we all hear things slightly differently and have sensistivity to different frequency ranges. There is also the source and the music itself. A lot of my music is metal, and it has a lot of kick drums. If you have a hump in the mid-bass but can’t control it properly that is going to sound bad with constant thundering of kick drums. The Empyrean also get a mid-bass hump with the leather pads but since they control it expertly (as well they should for that money) it just ads a more bite to the music and doesn‘t significantly bleed into the rest of the frequency range (as I experience on the H95).

Another thing to keep in mind (as I point out) my H95s are set to standard, I have not modified the EQ in any way so that could be a factor. Based on my experience with their earlier headphones their EQ tends to just move the problem around rather than fix anything anyway.

What can also affect comparisons is what your ears/brain are used to, that’s why in my tests I always started with the Empyreans, because they deliver my preferred sound signature, so I am primed to what I like to hear from the song before I compare the lesser products.

But in the end I did this to answer my own question on which to keep, and got an answer which is for my preference. What suits you could be completely different.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 6:56 PM Post #1,706 of 5,654
I've never really been sure what compression actually means. Does it mean reduction of dynamic range of quietest sound to the loudest sounds? So, essentially compressing the gap? That's what I thought compression actually means.

Or in this context, something different? I don't see why they'd have to compress the content if they should really be modifying the headphone frequency response?

I don't even know what they mean by adaptive EQ? Are there any concrete details on how that works?

Adaptive EQ is supposed to EQ the headphones so they sound the same regardless of how the headphones are set on your ears. It's also supposed to adjust EQ based on the geometry of your ears. Additionally, for HomePods it tries to EQ in such a way that the acoustic pressure is equalized in the area sound is being played (for HomePods that would be the room the speaker is in, APP would be your ear canal, APM would be the area that is sealed off by the ear pads). It does this using the internal microphone and pressure sensor in the earcups.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 7:03 PM Post #1,707 of 5,654
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/airpods-max.949152/post-16062696

The system is obviously able to measure way faster than 200hz otherwise neither ANC nor adaptive EQ would work above that frequency. My guess is that the mic is capable of recording at a much higher frequency and that ANC works up to around 1000hz, while that the Adaptive EQ part of the equation may work at a slightly higher frequency but that the FR is "updated" at a lower rate (200hz) as it's meant to play a different role from ANC (ie adjust for fit / seal variations) ?

ANC might work up to 1kHz or something, but in reality, the majority of the high frequencies are dealt with using passive noise isolation vs active noise cancelation. The Adaptive EQ is sampled and adjusted 200 times a second (it might be higher in the APM, but I doubt it). There could be two reasons for this: 1) sensors needed to sample can only do it so much and/or 2) adaptive EQ running more than 200Hz would not be audible to the human ear as the headphones would need to move that much that quickly and thus there is a power gain from doing it less.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 7:08 PM Post #1,708 of 5,654
Adaptive EQ is supposed to EQ the headphones so they sound the same regardless of how the headphones are set on your ears. It's also supposed to adjust EQ based on the geometry of your ears. Additionally, for HomePods it tries to EQ in such a way that the acoustic pressure is equalized in the area sound is being played (for HomePods that would be the room the speaker is in, APP would be your ear canal, APM would be the area that is sealed off by the ear pads). It does this using the internal microphone and pressure sensor in the earcups.
Yes, but generic statments can be made to be interpret as wide range of stuff from something really minor to something very precise. I assume not something precise, but some fudged approximations. They can't be measuring your ear anatomy, which would be the precise way to EQ if they figured out ear geometry to target response correlation. Doesn't Sony have something that asks for an image of your ear?
In addition, they couldn't possibly measure the response as the eardrum so how do they know what precisely should be EQ'd?

Can you explain to me how EQ is done with pressure?
 
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Dec 26, 2020 at 7:33 PM Post #1,710 of 5,654
There can be a number of factors.... There is also the source and the music itself. A lot of my music is metal, and it has a lot of kick drums. If you have a hump in the mid-bass but can’t control it properly that is going to sound bad with constant thundering of kick drums.

I listening to very little metal, but I have all Tool albums. I trying h95 and apm with different songs of 3 Tool albums and preferring the h95. But I don’t listening to music loud, maybe this is one difference? I listening principally rock (different types but very little metal), classical, jazz and little pop.

Another thing to keep in mind (as I point out) my H95s are set to standard, I have not modified the EQ in any way so that could be a factor. Based on my experience with their earlier headphones their EQ tends to just move the problem around rather than fix anything anyway.

I never like using eq with my headphones or earphones, except with the xm3 and h8 because this headphones I using only for travels and
I don’t liking their factory sound.
 

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