The PM3 with a HA-2 amplifier is quite a bit more expensive than the APM, and that’s all dedicated audio gear. If that doesn’t sound better, there’s something wrong.
I agree. But if you read through this thread everyone is claiming the Max is better than their desktop rigs... Lol. The PM3 is meant to be ampd so testing without an amp is not a good comparison.
These reviews are inspiring me to spend more time listening to my EL-8 Titanium, which is also made of aluminum and even heavier than the AirPods Max — yet it manages to remain surprisingly comfortable, so I have no concerns about the weight of AirPods Max.
I found AirPods Max available for pickup at two Apple Stores that are about 40 miles away and considered picking up a pair to join the crowd here and give my impressions, but honestly it’s not worth going out of my way for it at this point.
The PM3 with a HA-2 amplifier is quite a bit more expensive than the APM, and that’s all dedicated audio gear. If that doesn’t sound better, there’s something wrong.
Well, the APM is also a dedicated audio gear, isn't it? As for the "more expensive" bit - the APM gets compared to gear that costs (less than) half of what it does (from B&W PX7 to the HD6xx) so I don't really see your point
I agree. But if you read through this thread everyone is claiming the Max is better than their desktop rigs... Lol. The PM3 is meant to be ampd so testing without an amp is not a good comparison.
I think there are just a few people that mentioned the APM are better than their desktop rig (LCD3). So not quite everyone.
Could the APM replace an HD6xx + desktop dac/amp setup? I'm sure it can.
Can it replace an HD800S + tube amp setup? Definitely not.
The APM isn't replacing any of my current gear. It's mainly an addition to what I already have.
They are sold separately under the Beats brand. Apple bought Beats for its streaming music service which became Apple Music. Based on the reporting I’ve read, when Apple got into headphones (AirPods), they didn’t even involve any of the Beats people. Behind the scenes rumors and reporting suggest that Apple audio people thought little of Beats headphones and figured they could do better on their own.
Of course Apple thought little of beats headphone tech, Monster Cable was behind the headphones. Monster designed and manufactured them, after they became a hit Beats tried to cut them out, it’s easy to find third party to manufacture them and thus little need to pay Monster.
I think there are just a few people that mentioned the APM are better than their desktop rig (LCD3). So not quite everyone.
Could the APM replace an HD6xx + desktop dac/amp setup? I'm sure it can.
Can it replace an HD800S + tube amp setup? Definitely not.
The APM isn't replacing any of my current gear. It's mainly an addition to what I already have.
Honestly, I get the impression that 99% of head-fi uses their headphones with bad equipment and they get surprised that their APM is better than their HD 650, HD800S or LCD-2.
On good equipment, the HD 650 makes the APM sound very claustrophobic and the HD 650 is way more neutral. If people think the APM has got great soundstage and great separation, they need to improve their equipment.
However I am not saying the APM is bad. I think it is the best ANC headphone on the market and I'm super happy by it. But the APM doesn't even compete against good portable equipment. I don't even bother comparing it against a HD 650 with desktop level equipment (Chord Dave).
I agree. But if you read through this thread everyone is claiming the Max is better than their desktop rigs... Lol. The PM3 is meant to be ampd so testing without an amp is not a good comparison.
Nah, I’d never say that the Max is better than a desktop rig. It’s not better than my Audeze i3, either. But yeah, I do think it’s at least as good as an unamped PM3, and the sound is surprisingly good for wireless. Also, I thought the HA-2/PM-3 combination punched well above its weight class in terms of how it sounded to my ears. I tried out plenty of $1k stacks at various CanJams that didn’t work as well as that combo, so I still think it’s unfair to compare a consumer device like the APM against it.
What I really should do is break out my CL2 bluetooth cable and see how that sounds. I’ll do that tomorrow.
I read somewhere (it was either Reddit or here, I can’t remember) that somebody left his APMs out of the case overnight and power drain was maybe 1-2%? Basically hardly worth a consideration. I don’t have a set to confirm, but perhaps this case talk is getting out of hand. I mean it’s still rubbish, but maybe leaving it out of the case isn’t as catastrophic as it sounds?
Also all this talk about wired usage haha. If anyone were to stick a wire into a pair of cans designed for wireless use I guess it’d be us.
I agree, the battery drain when the APM is not in use is not that big based on the few days that I have used it so far. Apple makes the most efficient chips in the world, so that is probably why the APM can be on all the time.
Some people might not like it, but I like what Apple did. I don't have to turn on and wait for the headphones to be paired everytime I want to use it, like what you have to do with Sony and Bose headphones. It is ready to go whenever you want to use it.
But I guess if you go on holiday in the middle of nowhere and you won't have access to a power outlet for a few weeks, then I guess a Sony headphone is better for those conditions.
Honestly, I get the impression that 99% of head-fi uses their headphones with bad equipment and they get surprised that their APM is better than their HD 650, HD800S or LCD-2.
On good equipment, the HD 650 makes the APM sound very claustrophobic and the HD 650 is way more neutral. If people think the APM has got great soundstage and great separation, they need to improve their equipment.
However I am not saying the APM is bad. I think it is the best ANC headphone on the market and I'm super happy by it. But the APM doesn't even compete against good portable equipment. I don't even bother comparing it against a HD 650 with desktop level equipment (Chord Dave).
You might be joking, but I can definitely see it happening in the future. If you look at how Apple has been able to improve their chips every year, it is really amazing. They make Intel look like a joke now.
So if Apple keeps this trend up, I can see an Airpods Pro Max (maybe $1000) in the future that will have enough processing power that it can rival or maybe even beat a HD 650 + Chord Dave.
To above, I don't think that the processing power of the APM in headphone chip is lacking and thereby creating a "bottleneck" of sorts. As far as I know it's the same chip they use in the AirPods Pro. Even if they squeeze the processing power of their new m1 chip (that they put in the new MacBook Pro) into a size that fits in headphones it isn't magically gonna turn the APMs into something super special.
My take on how some people are going to react to the APM is: some people will be avid apple users with a degree of wanting the APM's to be good. They will have some interconnectedness in the apple ecosystem from current or previous purchases and some of these people will make it work for themselves. They will want it to work for them as they have an affinity and a history with apple. Some of them will lower their wants (knowingly or unknowingly) of comfort, weight, portability, sound quality and they will be satisfied enough to use the APM.
Other people, general consumers/non-audiophiles, will have experience with perhaps AirPods, a bunch of 10 dollar wired in-ears, and perhaps a set of ATH M50-x connected to their smart phones....these people should be quite very satisfied with what APM brings to the table based on their experience.
There are a few other profiles of people that come to mind as well, but anyway..
You might be joking, but I can definitely see it happening in the future. If you look at how Apple has been able to improve their chips every year, it is really amazing. They make Intel look like a joke now.
So if Apple keeps this trend up, I can see an Apple Pro Max (maybe $1000) in the future that will have enough processing power that it can rival or maybe even beat a HD 650 + Chord Dave.
Intel mobile chips are terrible because their ISA is inherently power-hungry. And I don't think ARM (with a more efficient ISA) really pushes chip development anymore. So I'd argue the bar to do better than Intel wasn't very high (in low power applications). I don't know if audio has such a limitation because existing companies use so many different underlying technologies and are very innovative themselves. For example, could Apple shrink a Dave and fit it inside active monitors? I mean, Dave IS all FPGA so it's inefficient in terms of size and power, but it might end up being a large chip regardless no matter how much you shrink it down.
But who knows, Apple has so much money that if they threw their weight behind audio maybe they could push further than existing companies can. I think that's what some people were hoping for in Airpod Max (myself included tbh).
I'm still waiting for the second that Apple deem CD quality (parity) is good enough for all Apple Music customers and iOS users and allow for some type of lossless streaming to their audio devices. I'm not talking hires or anything like that, I'm just talking about having parity with normal lossless/Alac ripped music. These really expensive and high end earphones are handicapped from the start in a wireless context and I don't understand how they can build every other bell and whistle on top of that without solving the source of what they're fed with in the first place. The actual source music files themselves.
Other people, general consumers/non-audiophiles, will have experience with perhaps AirPods, a bunch of 10 dollar wired in-ears, and perhaps a set of ATH M50-x connected to their smart phones....these people should be quite very satisfied with what APM brings to the table based on their experience.
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