Ah...the joys of college.
Oct 23, 2001 at 4:56 AM Post #46 of 50
That's very true Tim D. The real reason I wan't to succeed is so that I can dedicate myself to living a life without worries at some point. Essentailly so that I can have the money to support myself while contradicting the hard work that brought me that easy life. Sometimes though I get these glimpses of the future, purely out of intuition not any kind of psychic power mind you, that contradict myself... I imagine that I want to work just for the sake of working.
 
Oct 23, 2001 at 5:46 AM Post #47 of 50
Quote:

The true dreams are of what is written in movies or books. To find and live a continual challenge that you feel is worthy of a movie or book.


I don't know about that, Tim. Are you saying that the only people who live worthwhile lives are those who do big, flashy things, things that others would consider "great"?

There are lots of people who enjoy smaller things, things that may go unnoticed. A janitor, for instance, or a cook, or an electronics hobbyist: these people engage in activities that may not be movie-worthy or even part of their regular vocations. Yet they may engage in these activities with real passion. Are you saying that these people can't live happy lives, or that they would be happier if they dropped what they were doing and rushed off to "help humanity" in some display of grandiosity?
 
Oct 23, 2001 at 6:55 AM Post #48 of 50
I had to go pick up someone from a car dealership before I could say everything. Go figure, you can put a lot of money into a "comfortable" car, and it can still have trouble going from point A to B.

Please remember I'm not trying to preach anything, because I don't even consider myself converted! I struggle with my thoughts and other peoples thoughts, as does anyone else. I also don't want to insinuate any occupations as being lazy, I was just pointing out something I consider to be a paradox in the mentality of working for the sake of success and comfort.

Also when I talked about movies I thought it was interesting how there really is a duality present in movies as well. On the one hand Hollywood movies always portray traditional stories of struggle and conflict that people love. Behind the scenes however, Hollywood always will show off glamourous celebrities dressed in shining outfits walking on red carpets that people will love as well. I think everyone struggles with the balance of wanting comfort, and wanting adversity. Unfortunately in our society the media always seemed to glorify adversity in the form of fiction, and the glorification of comfort being the reality. I think it took a terrible event for a lot of people to now swap the two. The idea that perhaps comfort is fantasy, and adversity the reality.

My friend still admits to being confused and struggling with the duality of striving for success which he was well conditioned, and doing what he feels is good. I am talking about very strong parental guidance for success...he told me he cannot even tell his parents that he donated that much money, bizzare as that claim may seem. Again I stress that this is 50k to an upper-middle class family in a two story house with very average cars, etc...not an amazingly rich family. It is HIS money since he earned it off stocks, yet like many, he lives in a very strong culture where children are in themselves often like investments. Before I don't even think he was going to pursue anything like general practice, but use his abilities to have a very prestigious career in medicine that was more on the research side. This is not to say research is not useful, but he told me that he already HAS the ability to do so much good and is very strongly considering going to the ME for medical support. Devoting a lot of time to research very specific ailments that affect a limited amount people no longer seemed as strong a priority as the help he could be giving to many who are in need of such bare necessities as food in the short-term.

shivohum I was not making ANY claim whatsoever. I already said that the life of a hard laborer can be filled with more adversity than others would ever care for. I like to stress that I am not making ANY claim, but more like "brainstorming" and contemplating. To make a claim would mean that I have a strong conviction and belief towards something or other, and I truly don't even though I often wish I did. I truly believe that my friend has enough conviction to make the claim, and am just recounting my discussion with him, not MY views. He believes everyone has their calling. I believe this to, but I also believe that a lot of people don't find it or pursue it...I know I haven't yet. Also I want to fully stress what I mean about living a life worthy of a book or movie. I'm talking about a book or movie that I would personally want to read, or see, not necessarily the typical Hollywood movie. I think there are MANY people whose lives are worthy of a book or movie, but hollywood usually likes to throw in space aliens and/or women with large breasts, so don't take it that literally. I really do think there are plenty of people with lives worthy of recounting, wheter or not it is hollywood material is another matter.

I'm not saying "BE LIKE MIKE" (thats not his name), I'm just saying if you AREN'T passionate about something or particularly happy about where you stand in life, there might be reasons why. It reminds me of what I've read from Heidegger translations in reference to technology. In this day and age, it might not be uncommon for some folks to feel disconnected to their work and feel like a cog in some grand machinery. If you are really happy and content in life, than you are probably doing something right, and there would be no reason to ever feel defensive about not doing this or that. I am NOT saying live up to the movies. In fact I sometimes believe we should glorify the good of our fellow common and REAL man, instead of the good of fictional grand characters, and instead of glorifying the comforts of our fellow man with glamorous actors or models sporting the best toys. I am opening up the possibility that our society, where everyone knows what a "mid-life crisis" is, where our divorce rates are high, where many people drop out of college or highschool, and where not everyone may be happy, may not be fostering the right goals and aspirations properly.

My friend told me that he has come to the realization that generally, human beings are good, and that he loves people. This just isn't the type of thing I'd expect from him...I've known him for a long time. He also talks to me about a girl he met in medschool and loves. Please note he feels strongly connected to the ME situation also because of his descent, and his GF's descent (she's actually an Afghan refugee, he's Pakinstani...go figure). I don't want to say too much since obviously there aren't going to be too many individuals that fit the profile, and I respect his privacy and wishes.

Again I stress I am not doing this to make anyone feel less "grand". In fact my entire brainstorming and contemplation stems from the fact that "grandeur" and "success" may not be what will make one happy, even though we are often taught this by society and media. I do admit, knowing the guy in the flesh often makes me feel sometimes envious and can only say that the human mind can be so strong yet so weak at the same time. I am envious that he has found a higher calling which doesn't stress materialism, yet at the same time he obviously IS successful, and he has also found an absolutely gorgeous, intelligent, and caring girl that he loves. I was never that envious of his "success", as so much his conviction (I am a tad envious of the girl too, a beautiful person inside and out). He also has renewed faith in God(after realizing that he was NOT in control), and believes that science and religion can peacefully co-exist. Again I am only posting of someone else's epiphany. It has helped me think about things in life a little more, but again I am in no way preaching...cause hell...I'm not even in the choir! It is hard for me to write this post in a manner that is less preachy, but I think this is just because the actions and circumstances are just so strong in themself.

I wasn't going to post about it since he certainly is not going to go around blabbing about it...but I just couldn't contain my own thoughts under the assault of another man's conviction who I am easily willing to say is much stronger than my own.
 
Oct 23, 2001 at 7:56 AM Post #49 of 50
Getting up in the morning requires that I convince myself of some kind of motivational idea. I have to deny the fact that humanity is a minute blip in a Universe that is so big it might as well be infinite. However there is the off chance that we have some higher meaning of giving order to the chaos. The point is after realizing something like that how can you honestly tell yourself that what you do in life matters? From that point on anything you do is the fullfillment of a hedonist desire. For instance Tim D what is your friends motivation? Is it guilt? Is it some kind of self sacrificing love for his fellow man? As a finality wouldn't it be possible to say that he could even be said to be guilty of his own life in the face of others deaths?

While incredibly well intentioned and admirable on some level, to me his action is in vain and somewhat desperate. It seems that he must have trouble justifying his existence in this world. If a person has a desire to throw away the representation of their hardwork and dedication to life then perhaps they need to do more than just give money. It is probably that there are many things about himself and his life that bother him as you have said. And that this event which so easily affects us all has become a method for him to change himself, an excuse if you will to become something 'better'. Then again maybe I have gotten the wron impression of this guy.

It might be that humanity's reason for existing is just to see this place. It's the whole "if a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it does it make a sound" conundrum. Perhaps we give justification to the universe. So do as you will just for the sake of living.
 
Oct 23, 2001 at 5:35 PM Post #50 of 50
Well I can't represent who the person IS in a few posts. This is just someone I know well (or maybe more accurately, thought I knew well) and tried to explain his mindset. Obviously since I am not IN his mindset I will not be able to give a totally transparent view into his mind. I'm not going to try to calculate his motivations anymore since it would be second guessing on my part. Obviously all I know is he IS a motivated person. No person is well-qualified to truly represent who another person truly is. So I don't think it would be accurate or very right to second guess his motivations or beliefs unless you know the person first-hand. And even if you DO know him like I do, I do not think I am qualified to explain his motivations and beliefs since I am not him and would never claim to share these motivations or beliefs. If I have difficulty explaining my own mindset well to others, well I surely wouldn't be qualified to explain someone else's. I did try to "rationalize" his motivations since again my mindset was being assaulted by contrast. I felt in the end that this was a defense mechanism of mine in an attempt to disregard his actions as non-genuine or motivated by "other" circumstances so that my perspective on life goes on unthreatened. But I have talked to him, and had lunch with him recently, to know that deep down there was genuity and something as base as goodness. My only point to aigod, or anyone, is that you should work hard and strive for success. But what you define as success should be up to you.

I recently sent him an ICQ to tell him how I felt since when I talked to him before I wasn't able to say anything intelligent and actually was more of a big dumbass who basically kept saying "no way!", or "I can't believe it" a lot. Not the disbelief that I don't trust him since we used to hang out almost every week and know him very well...but the disbelief in the form of shock.


His reply was.
---
You have received a message!
that is really good to know....
Remember "Self trust is the first secret of success".

I think Emerson said that... when we die, i think the only satisfaction i will have will be knowing that at least i tried to make a difference....whether i do or not is irrevelent, but its important to have hope in a seemingly hopeless existence
---

I am not trying to preach any way or another. The only reason I brought this up is after reading aigods perspective. I am not judging whose perspective is "correct". I don't think that is really possible to do. I just wanted to give a real-life counterexample. I see truths in both my friends outlook on life, and truths on aigods outlook in life. Honestly I feel that I share an outlook more similar to aigods. I'm not going to try and make a logical statement out of someone else's perspective on life and add a comparator with a < > = symbol. My original intent was merely to give counter-example to aigods perspective. I am sure aigod would be able to give a counter-example to my counter-example. I will not claim that one perspective is TRUE, and one is WRONG. I am just feeling that MY perspective feels less right more than ever. I shouldn't say that my perspective is like aigod's since I don't know him that well. I just felt like I had some similarities with aigod's perspective (and my friends past perspective), and a strong contrast with my friends current outlook, and feel that my perspective is less "right" to me. I didn't mean to tell aigod or anyone this so that they will change their outlook, I merely wanted to add some more input to think about.

After Sept 11, I think I, as well as anyone else, took considerable time to re-evaluate their outlook. Sometimes it would lead to an outlook of desparity, to one of hope and motivation. In the end, we were told to "be normal" and resume or normal routines and habits, and that I did. But my perspective still lacked true motivation as my outlook leaned towards the former more than latter. In order to defend my outlook and try to resume normal routines and habits, I think I blocked out images of the world that I know are true. My friend has done the exact opposite and thrown himself into the crisis that many other people would block out to sustain "normal" behavior. Before he was very independent like me, not religious, and certainly wasn't the type of person to identify himself in any "group". Awhile after the event, he told me however that he now identified with being Muslim and said that he did not deny the existance of God, just didn't know. Finally he told me that not only is he Muslim, he now does believe in God. I can certainly TRY to rationalize his motivations and factors, but I think that would oversimplify. I do admit to have done so, pointing out that medschool is nurturing and fosters groupwork, premed is pure competition and backstabbing. The fact that he has found someone he can love is a factor since this is a pretty big change in itself. Anyhow I can try to rationalize his motivations, but feel that this is my defense mechanism, a human frailty to always dumb things down to objectivity. Also remember that even HE was a man of objectivity, and has himself questioned and rationalized his own motivations and even pointed them out to me. Things are just not as simple as they seem. The effect of his GF, or medschool, or his "heritage"...I was not the first to question wheter or not these factored into his motivation...he addressed it first.


--
Woops when I said ai_god I mean ai0tron. I'm very bad with names...especially if they mutate!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top