[Skin]

Hopefully some people can help me. So im browsing around a little looking at options for my first high end system, needless to say i feel like im swimming in an ocean of options.

I plan on running all this through my comp sound card, and eventually into a dac, which i'll decide on at a later date. For now all i'd like to do is get the foundation built.

I think i've narrowed it down, and am seeking opinions as well as advice.

Electrostatics. Is there a negative? Besides the fact that they need to warm up i havent really read anything but positive opinions. However there is a distinct lack of closed headphones, or headphones in general for that matter. For where i am this lack of closed phones isnt a giant negative, however eventually i'd like to purchase a pair so that i can listen without bothering others, as well as filting out ambient noise like the fans of the computer or clicks of the keyboard. Im assuming i'd be pointed towards the 4070, and hopefully they arent a flop in the sound department or exceedingly uncomfortable.

My budget is limited here though as i cant afford 4 grand in one shot so for now im considering the SR-404 driven by the WA GES amp.

Or, should i ignore electrostatics and go with dynamics which is basically a sure thing? Plenty of options as far as closed and open phones go. The impression i get though, with dynamics that is, is they seem like one headphone always does something better than another and lacks in an area compared to another. Reading reviews of decent electrostats i get the impression that they do everything equally as well. Not sure if thats a correct conclusion. Anyway in the case of a dynamic system i'd be picking up the Edition 9 powered by the Yamamoto HA-02 later upgrading to the WA 5.

I dont desire any artificial sound in my music, i simply want everything to sound the way it was ment to sound and do it as well as possible. I listen to pretty much every genre save rap, r&b, classical, country, and jazz.

If im missing anything critical, please let me know. As far as more expensive options go, essentially what im seeking is a system i can improve upon, rather than continually gut and replace. In the case of electrostats, the GES seems like an exceptionally solid Amp, so if i upgraded to the Omega IIs or 4070s, it wouldnt have a problem driving them correct? In the case of my dynamic choices, i'm sure i'd be more than happy with the ED9 for quite some time while looking into amp upgrades later and dynamics get improved all the time etc... So if other options are suggested, if possible please keep in mind that goal.

Thanks for any words of wisdom

 

[Uncle Erik]

What kind of equipment are you running right now? Have you owned or do you have any experience with high-end gear?

I know the urge is to go to the top right away, but I don't think it's a good idea to do that until you know what you want. All the gear you mentioned is good, but all of it is different. Do you want to go a few thousand into a setup that you might not enjoy as much as another one? If you buy everything new and sell later, you can lose a significant amount of money.

I don't know where you are, but if you can get to a meet any time soon, go. They're lots of fun and you'll be able to check out the gear firsthand. You'll also get to talk in person - five minutes of conversation can give you more information than 50 posts. You'll learn a lot and the senior members there will put you in the right direction.

If you can't get to a meet and are itching to buy, I'd recommend one of the baseline headphones. Something along the lines of the Sennheiser HD-600/650, Beyerdynamic DT880, AKG K-701, and Grado RS-1. All of them are good to excellent headphones. But the main reason to get one of these is to give you a reference point in the discussions here. You'll see pretty much every headphone discussed in terms of these five. Once you listen to it for awhile and get a feel for its sound, you can read up and ask around about how other pairs compare. Buy them used if you can. That way, you can resell them later and lose hardly anything.

As for an amp, comb the For Sale Forum and get a halfway decent one that matches the headphones you choose. Again, buy used, so you can resell when you upgrade.

That's how I got into vinyl - I was torn over buying an entry deck or a more expensive one. I realized that I had no idea how any of these would sound or work, so I went with a used entry-level deck. That deck pointed the way to where I am now. But I had no idea where I wanted to go before I had the entry level deck. Had I bought an expensive turntable right away, I probably would have lost a couple thousand or more before I got what I really wanted.

Figure out where you are and what you really want before making a significant investment. Besides, those "baseline" headphones sound great - you'd probably love all of them. They'll give you a lot of pleasure while you figure out where you want to go.

 

[Skin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you want to go a few thousand into a setup that you might not enjoy as much as another one? If you buy everything new and sell later, you can lose a significant amount of money.

I think it would be impossible given my tastes personally. Before anything else i enjoy music, i really dont care what its playing on or if its lossy vs lossless. That doesnt mean that i cant appreciate a nice high end system though and the improvements that come with, and regardless of that statement i do indeed try to obtain all my music at lossless qualities or close to it. Hence my questions. I've mostly stuck with IEMs personally, specifically etymotic ER4 and ER6s, because they sound very well rounded. Im 100% positive i could build up a dynamic setup and be quite happy, at the same time i look at electrostats with a bit of a curiosity. Electrostat users obviously are a bit of a niche group comparative to dynamics so without hands on testing i'd never know if they were any good. From most reviews i've read here, quite simply, everyone seems pleased. For a true to life sound coupled with great soundstaging it would seem that would be the route to head down, but i still dont know. I guess im looking for support that my conclusion is a correct one?

By the way thanks for your responce. Was the best and most responsible one i could hope for. As i said though i dont think i could go wrong, im more or less just curious if electrostats are indeed as good as they appear. With Dynamics i'd forsee multiple headphone purchases/upgrades as there are just so many releases. Thats just the way i am as im sure many are. Its fun to test out new and better technologies. On the otherhand if so many are completely content with the limited selection of electrostats, then i think that may actually be the safest route, financially speaking.

In the end all i want to do is enjoy the music for what it is without anything being artificially added.

 

[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im assuming i'd be pointed towards the 4070, and hopefully they arent a flop in the sound department or exceedingly uncomfortable.

According to the Stax Threads I've read they are a bit heavy and can get uncomfortable after a period of time. FWIU with the right synergy of equipment feeding them, the SQ is well regarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif im considering the SR-404 driven by the WA GES amp.

Good combo, particularly with the right tubes (big advantage of tube amps is the tube rolling option

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or, should i ignore electrostatics and go with dynamics which is basically a sure thing?

Definitely not 'a sure thing' in my biased opinion. I've tried a whole range of dynamics at Head-Fi meets and elsewhere since joining here two years ago. Have expanded my electrostats collection but yet to succumb to a dynamic purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Reading reviews of decent electrostats i get the impression that they do everything equally as well. Not sure if thats a correct conclusion.

Not so. Read the Stax thread in more detail and you'll see stats have their various weaknesses and strengths as well, including the 404. But get the right synergy of equipment together and, IMHO at least, they enthrall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif i simply want everything to sound the way it was ment to sound and do it as well as possible.

"meant to sound" according to the audio engineer? Maybe. But the higher up the audio (including stats) chain you go, the less you may like what some think a recording is "meant" to sound like. I.E. The equipment can get more unforgiving to faults and 'less than ideal' mixes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the case of electrostats, the GES seems like an exceptionally solid Amp, so if i upgraded to the Omega IIs or 4070s, it wouldnt have a problem driving them correct?

According to myself and others, again with the proviso of the right synergy of tubes, the GES drives those ESPs well enough (just not as good as a Blue Hawaii

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know where you are, but if you can get to a meet any time soon, go. They're lots of fun and you'll be able to check out the gear firsthand. You'll also get to talk in person - five minutes of conversation can give you more information than 50 posts. You'll learn a lot and the senior members there will put you in the right direction.

[size=small]X2[/size]. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've mostly stuck with IEMs personally, specifically etymotic ER4 and ER6s, because they sound very well rounded.

And that could give you some context on my comments. I agree the ER4 is a keeper but it definitely needs a recable (APS) and good equipment synergy to raise its bass performance. Unmatched in the highs, though. IMHO if you like ER4 sound you'll probably enjoy what stats can offer you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif For a true to life sound coupled with great soundstaging it would seem that would be the route to head down, but i still dont know. I guess im looking for support that my conclusion is a correct one?

Too generic a conclusion. For instance Stax Sigma soundstage is amazing compared to the other models but lacks the precise instrument placement of the O2 (which has a far more restricted soundstage comparatively). Yet both these stat examples can also sound everything from 'average' to 'exceptional' with the wrong or right combinations of equipment. (And, yes, I do have both and have tried many combinations so I believe I do know what I'm talking about).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats just the way i am as im sure many are. Its fun to test out new and better technologies. On the otherhand if so many are completely content with the limited selection of electrostats, then i think that may actually be the safest route, financially speaking. In the end all i want to do is enjoy the music for what it is without anything being artificially added.

You'll probably still experiment with stats - different sound signatures, different amps, etc. But it gets expensive very easilly. Then, for some, a 404/GES amazes them and they stay with that. As you conclude, if you're hearing the sound that completely satisfies you then you'll have made the one time investment and spend the rest of the time simply enjoying.

 

[vcoheda]

there are a few very good threads on this issue, probably in this part of the forum. you should read those.

 

[Skin]

edit

 

[panda]

this will get you where you want to go:

dac: meridian 518
amp: headamp gs-1
fone: sony sa5000