[dweaver]

^^ Your welcome, I'm glad they are getting used and helping you and others. For those wanting to use FLAC I use Media Monkey which I believe has a free version, but if not I am sure there are some decent free products available to help use flac.
 
As for which file to use, I am actually going to try the 2nd file with my new MTPC when they arrive as I am hoping it may tame the bass a bit versus the brown centric file, while still helping to draw out the midrange, as I do like a slightly forward midrange. But if I don't like the results I'll be switching back to the first burnin file I made as I did like the results of it for the most part.

 

[ShyFroggy]

Definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions of the second file!
 
Quote:

^^ Your welcome, I'm glad they are getting used and helping you and others. For those wanting to use FLAC I use Media Monkey which I believe has a free version, but if not I am sure there are some decent free products available to help use flac.
 
As for which file to use, I am actually going to try the 2nd file with my new MTPC when they arrive as I am hoping it may tame the bass a bit versus the brown centric file, while still helping to draw out the midrange, as I do like a slightly forward midrange. But if I don't like the results I'll be switching back to the first burnin file I made as I did like the results of it for the most part.

 

[shigzeo]

I like the test, but I have to really be picky here; I've spent about a month doing all I can to make as good an acoustic coupler as I can that eliminates variances from driver to driver and to be honest, even the smallest of movements of the microphone makes massive differences. When I say massive, I mean of up to 20dB. 
 
Burn in or not, without a really high quality coupler, there isn't really a way to accurately measure differences, plus there may be sample differences anyway. If it is possible to get ahold of a great acoustic coupler and then measure the same earphone without any use and then 400 hours down the line without touching the earphone at all nor the microphone, then it would be a lot more feasible to prove this or that. This is a great thread, but recording differences isn't so easy.

 

[dweaver]

Your likely right right about the test results Shigzeo and that doesn't take into account the need to do this multiple times to show repeatability. But I was getting fairly consistant readings and only using them when they had stabilized when testing. Having said all that I really can't definitevly prove that one burn file work better than another. About theonly thing I think can be proved in my mind is that burnin is real because I saw quite a bit of changes in my numbers on the same heaqdphone as I burned them in.
 
What I will do this time is hook up my recording setup and leave it on the IEM and then I will take readings as I burn in the IEM and record those numbers as they happen. Would that help eliminate some of the moving part variables?

 

[shigzeo]

It might. Surely, we are dealing with an inexact science, certainly as laymen. If any of us had the proper equipment and the time to do it, we would own our own shops or headphone brands. So, while anything is an improvement, I don't expect much. My coupler is still about 10dB away from manufacturer's measurements on certain earphones, so I have to tweak until it works as it should. At the moment, I have no faith in my contraption, but I hope to spread religion to the heathen inhabitants of my desktop soon.
 
Good luck with your work my friend.

 

[dweaver]

^^ LOL the more I open Pandora's Box the more I know I was don't really know anything and I certainly don't have the tools. But I do the best I can with the little bit I have...
If I win the big $50M this Friday I am going to setup a real lab with a large enough sample just to satisfy my curiosity

 

[JoeyRusso]

Quote:

^^ Your welcome, I'm glad they are getting used and helping you and others. For those wanting to use FLAC I use Media Monkey which I believe has a free version, but if not I am sure there are some decent free products available to help use flac.
 
As for which file to use, I am actually going to try the 2nd file with my new MTPC when they arrive as I am hoping it may tame the bass a bit versus the brown centric file, while still helping to draw out the midrange, as I do like a slightly forward midrange. But if I don't like the results I'll be switching back to the first burnin file I made as I did like the results of it for the most part.

 
dweaver, I had great success utilizing your files, but I went even further.  I quadrupled up the Pink and White noise before and after the Brown noise file and I added a frequency sweep file and a drum file.  My playlist looked something like this: P, W, P, W, P, W, P, W, B, P, W, P, W, P, W, P, W, full frequency sweep, heavy drum file, 1 hr silence file.  After I unboxed my Copper's, I listened to my music for 4-5 hours, then I set up the playlist, looped it, set the volume to just above normal listening levels and let it run over night (8 hrs).  The next morning I took them off and let them rest while I was at work.  The following night I did the same thing.
 
Judging only from my initial listen out of the box, I think my break in evened out an already well balanced IEM.  The highs are nice and crisp, but not sibilant.  The mids are balanced nicely, not in your face or recessed and the biggest change occured in the low end.  The bass is still punchy and full bodied, but it's not boomy or sloppy in any way.  It can still pound for Trance and house music or blend in nicely with Jazz.  It's not the focal point, it's where it should be, ready and waiting.  If anything, I think my choice of file order resulted in maintaining the highs and mids more than bringing them forward.  I don't find myself focusing on anything but the music playing through them now, where out of the box, I was critically listening.  My Copper's are the most enjoyable IEM I've heard to date.  They do every genre well for me.  I don't find myself wanting more of any range.  My IE8's needed EQ'ing to shine, my ER-4P's needed more bass, The IE7's just needed a little more of everything.  My Copper's sound just right to me and I couldn't be happier.
 

 

[dweaver]

very interesting Joeyrusso, how long did your frequency sweep and heavy drumming last and were you using 1 minute increments for the noise segments?

 

[JoeyRusso]

Quote:

very interesting Joeyrusso, how long did your frequency sweep and heavy drumming last and were you using 1 minute increments for the noise segments?

I'll have to double check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure both the pink and white noise were both 1 minute files. I'll check on the others and reply in a few hours.  I'll post links to the files I downloaded to compliment yours.
 

 

[dweaver]

Excellent, thanks JoeyRusso

 

[JoeyRusso]

Ok after further review of my Foobar playlist.. It seems I went even more extreme than I originally thought.  The files I used, aside from dweaver's Brown file, were all found on http://www.burninwave.com/.  Since the file lengths were so short, I added multiples of each in the following order:
 
P-W-FS-P-W-P-W-FS-P-P-W-FS-P-W-P-W-FS-P-W-HD-W-Brown file-W-FS-P-RW-Silence file-W
 
P = Pink noise (1 minute file)
W = White noise (1 minute file)
FS = Frequency Sweep 20-20k Hz - (30 second file)
HD = Heavy drum (50 second file)
Brown file = dweaver's B-P-B-W-B flac (1 hour file)
RW = Radio White noise (1 minute file)
Silence file - (1 hour of silence)
 
I set Foobar to replay the playlist and let it run for 8 hours overnight.  In the morning I unplugged my Copper's and let them rest while I was at work.  I repeated the whole process the following night. I noticed the biggest change between the initial listen and after the first night of burn in.  The changes from there on out were on a smaller scale.  After about 10 hours of listening and two nights of burn-in I've done nothing but listen and enjoy.  Your mileage may vary, but I love how my MTPC's sound.
 
Joey

 

[ShyFroggy]

^^^ awesome.  Thanks for the link; i might go this road for more balance.  I don't want to sacrifice any upper mids or treble.

 

[dweaver]

very interesting, the cool thing with these files is it's easy to combine them and make up your own unique burnin file. I would want a slight bit more brown strewn throughout the process but I could see how this would make for a nice balanced sound. I like the addition of the heavy drums but would likely increase the use of that 50 second file and while I hate the sound of the frequency sweep those short blasts are probably fine (just make sure your not going to loud).
 
To me this is kinda the fun part of a new dynamic based IEM as it lets me try things I hadn't thought of before.
 
Excellent work and imagination JoeyRusso.

 

[ShyFroggy]

what, in theory, do you think might happen if you first used the brown noise file for a night, then switched to the pink/white file the next, and so on?  
 
Also, do all vocals pretty much fit into the "midrange"?  A female soprano, for example, or a boy treble.  

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

what, in theory, do you think might happen if you first used the brown noise file for a night, then switched to the pink/white file the next, and so on?  
 
Also, do all vocals pretty much fit into the "midrange"?  A female soprano, for example, or a boy treble.  

I think the attempt at sound shaping is best done as early as possible if it is actually possible.  You would want the the phone to be as fresh from the factory to shape it.  The longer it has to settle the less likely you would be able to mold the signature IMO.