[OCC7N]

@jamesjames

Try HE400SE. Beats both Arya and HE1000 Stealth

 

[OCC7N]

Leave Susvara alone guys. It is enough. It should be okay to not like it. It is a hobby not a cult

Susvara is not for every genre of music either. It can become so generic sounding that initial owners can turn against all the hype.

To me Susvara is cafe del mar, jazz, slow pace music and coffee in the weekends. I use it 2-5hours a week. My daily driver is HE400SE which is more interesting because it is the most correct sounding heaphone I have heard. So correct I invested more money on the chain for this headphone than Susvara.

 

[jamesjames]

Which is totally fine. The great thing about this hobby is there is practically something for everyone. Susvara didn’t wow me for vocals either, until I put it on tubes. I even sold my first pair because I was a bit disappointed.

Well said! In the interests of full disclosure, I should confess I don't find planars among the best phones for acoustic music - while I prefer the Arya to the Susvara, to my ear the best dynamics and e-stats do a better job. So those who like planars might well disagree with my impressions here and must make of them what you will. My thoughts are perhaps more interesting to those who haven't heard planars, or aren't sure how they compare ...

 

[tunes]

One of the great things about the Arya is the big, big soundstage. Susvara is just a little bit smaller, however accuracy within that sound stage is more precise, at least from my findings.

Also, from my experience I’d say it’s going to really depend on what you’re running the Susvara off of. Off a solid state amp, that’s going to be more of a true statement, but oh my goodness, put the Susvara on a proper tube amp and instruments really come to life. There’s more texture to the instruements and vocals that are more palpable than just about anything I’ve ever heard.

Is there a tube amp or hybrid SS/Tube amp cost no concern that will drive the Susvara to match or better the holographic wide tall and deep sound stage of the HEKse???

I am not able to audition the following highly recommended TOTL amps such as:

Woo WA33 Elite ~ $18k

Riviera AIC-10 ~ $25k

EF1000 $15K

Feliks Envy Performance w/Elrogs $12K

 

[psy472]

Is there a tube amp or hybrid SS/Tube amp cost no concern that will drive the Susvara to match or better the holographic wide tall and deep sound stage of the HEKse???

I am not able to audition the following highly recommended TOTL amps such as:

Woo WA33 Elite ~ $18k

Riviera AIC-10 ~ $25k

EF1000 $15K

Feliks Envy Performance w/Elrogs $12K

You didn’t factor in the cost of the tubes you need to roll. Minimum another 200-250 per tube.

 

[Aetherhole]

Is there a tube amp or hybrid SS/Tube amp cost no concern that will drive the Susvara to match or better the holographic wide tall and deep sound stage of the HEKse???

I am not able to audition the following highly recommended TOTL amps such as:

Woo WA33 Elite ~ $18k

Riviera AIC-10 ~ $25k

EF1000 $15K

Feliks Envy Performance w/Elrogs $12K

I don’t think you need to even go that high in the chain to be better. I’d imagine the WA33 Standard will match/best it. I find the WA23 also be expansive in width, height, and depth. Both are under $10K (hardly in relative affordable territory, still).

 

[tunes]

What I am really looking for is a tube amp that will noticeably expand the sound stage/reverb holographic effect with solid state like micro detail retrieval and accurate instrument vocal placement all with a blackest silent background. The ENLEUM amp 23R is what I have now and love it but looking for a larger sound stage with everything the ENLEUM does so well with Susvara.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Is there a tube amp or hybrid SS/Tube amp cost no concern that will drive the Susvara to match or better the holographic wide tall and deep sound stage of the HEKse???

I am not able to audition the following highly recommended TOTL amps such as:

Woo WA33 Elite ~ $18k

Riviera AIC-10 ~ $25k

EF1000 $15K

Feliks Envy Performance w/Elrogs $12K

Even tho it's no Tube amp, the Zähl HM1 could be a contender with its unique crossfeed, if you're craving soundstage.

I know that the Envy is a superb match with Susvara, however I don't know about how it compares to the HekSE in terms of soundstage.

Tall and wide would be with the Fullmusic 300B from the performance Edition and the Linlai E-6SN7 Elite. The Elrog ER300B are overall better tubes but the stage is smaller than with Fullmusic

 

[theveterans]

What I am really looking for is a tube amp that will noticeably expand the sound stage/reverb holographic effect with solid state like micro detail retrieval and accurate instrument vocal placement all with a blackest silent background. The ENLEUM amp 23R is what I have now and love it but looking for a larger sound stage with everything the ENLEUM does so well with Susvara.

Choose whichever suits your style: 2A3 or 300B

With the right combination of driver tubes and power tubes on the Envy or WA23, you can easily achieve what you're looking for Susvara. However, you have to keep rolling a bunch of tubes to know exactly if you have reached that point.

I would suggest Envy over WA23 though for tube rolling paradise. I'd start with Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top + any 300B tube until you find that Cathedral soundstage presentation

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Excuse my interrupting, but I would like to better understand what folks are hearing when they describe "holographic", "3D", "tall", and "wide" soundstage out of a tube amp. How would you compare this with speaker imaging or actual live imaging within a concert venue? Is it just a general sense of "bigness"? I would suppose either distortion or an actual bass or midrange elevation could induce a fullness that causes a recording to sound "bigger", though I without crossfeed would probably still image the sound sources on a small arc between the headphones in front of my eyes and forehead. Otherwise, the only way I have truly been able to project a recorded orchestra out in front of me (by at least a meter, some recordings convey distance better) was with HRTF measurements and binaural DSP. I can even use this DSP to hear sounds coming a meter from the left and right (what my beginner self had expected the Arya Stealth to do, which it certainly did not, and if it did, it would have sounded ridiculous). And with that, the only "height" I get is the sense of the ear space within my Meze Elite and HE1000se, sounds mostly being positioned sharply along a line between the virtual speakers, any sense of height variation to the sounds arguably being an imaging error caused by inaccuracies in my HRTF measurements and rendering.

 

[jamesjames]

Excuse my interrupting, but I would like to better understand what folks are hearing when they describe "holographic", "3D", "tall", and "wide" soundstage out of a tube amp. How would you compare this with speaker imaging or actual live imaging within a concert venue? Is it just a general sense of "bigness"? I would suppose either distortion or an actual bass or midrange elevation could induce a fullness that causes a recording to sound "bigger", though I without crossfeed would probably still image the sound sources on a small arc between the headphones in front of my eyes and forehead. Otherwise, the only way I have truly been able to project a recorded orchestra out in front of me (by at least a meter, some recordings convey distance better) was with HRTF measurements and binaural DSP. I can even use this DSP to hear sounds coming a meter from the left and right (what my beginner self had expected the Arya Stealth to do, which it certainly did not, and if it did, it would have sounded ridiculous). And with that, the only "height" I get is the sense of the ear space within my Meze Elite and HE1000se, sounds mostly being positioned sharply along a line between the virtual speakers, any sense of height variation to the sounds arguably being an imaging error caused by inaccuracies in my HRTF measurements and rendering.

For what it's worth, I too have never understood this kind of discussion. Crossfeed seems to me necessary to address the fundamental physical constraints of headphone listening - and I find it works very well. Talk of height, width, etc, leaves me mystified. Suggestions that valves may affect the matter other than through increased distortion or EQ effects as you describe is hard to follow (to say the least). It seems, however, that there are two worlds: one world in which this discussion is very important; and another in which it is meaningless.

EDIT
Re-reading this, I thought I should add that I don't doubt that good recordings (I listen to acoustic music) are 'good' because they include information that allows the transducer (assuming a good amp also) to project an image of a performance that's 'convincing'; which is to say there's some blending of sound simultaneously with some sense of separate instrumentation. The recording will involve some sense of 'distance' or perspective the engineer considers appropriate using 'venue' reverberation, etc. I think 'good' phones translate this accurately. I guess I find it hard to accept the idea that I should look for phones (or an amp) that generally imposes/creates its own sense of space/height/width/depth ... independently of the recording. I suppose I'm looking for components that are chameleons - transparent to the source(s) - which means, of course, not everything sounds 'good' ...

 

[psy472]

I suspect HiFiman achieve the “holographic” sound by increasing the spacing between the headphone drives and the ears with their thick pads. Then they rely in a strong amp to drive the sound and magnets to make your very ears vibrate when there is bass. This will give you the perception of being inside the music. The Edition XS does really well but the bass bleed need a good amp to tighten it up.

 

[jamesjames]

I suspect HiFiman achieve the “holographic” sound by increasing the spacing between the headphone drives and the ears with their thick pads. Then they rely in a strong amp to drive the sound and magnets to make your very ears vibrate when there is bass. This will give you the perception of being inside the music. The Edition XS does really well but the bass bleed need a good amp to tighten it up.

Theories certainly do abound in this world.

 

[OCC7N]

Excuse my interrupting, but I would like to better understand what folks are hearing when they describe "holographic", "3D", "tall", and "wide" soundstage out of a tube amp. How would you compare this with speaker imaging or actual live imaging within a concert venue? Is it just a general sense of "bigness"? I would suppose either distortion or an actual bass or midrange elevation could induce a fullness that causes a recording to sound "bigger", though I without crossfeed would probably still image the sound sources on a small arc between the headphones in front of my eyes and forehead. Otherwise, the only way I have truly been able to project a recorded orchestra out in front of me (by at least a meter, some recordings convey distance better) was with HRTF measurements and binaural DSP. I can even use this DSP to hear sounds coming a meter from the left and right (what my beginner self had expected the Arya Stealth to do, which it certainly did not, and if it did, it would have sounded ridiculous). And with that, the only "height" I get is the sense of the ear space within my Meze Elite and HE1000se, sounds mostly being positioned sharply along a line between the virtual speakers, any sense of height variation to the sounds arguably being an imaging error caused by inaccuracies in my HRTF measurements and rendering.

You can not have both.

Delta vs R2R. 3D/Holographic experience … also organic/blacker background, is more noticeable on R2R.

You can translate it to whatever term it is called.

Having a soundstage right in front of you that goes like a hall deep in front, and a tiny bit of “crossfeed” experience. It feels like being in the music. I am not using crossfeed, it just feels like it naturally. Nothing to do with pads and placement of the headphone…

The details between Delta vs R2R are “shifted” the same details are there but not pronounced/emphasized in the same way. Delta have some very correct/fast responding high frequencies, which sometimes can feel like a “clock-tick-tock” wheras R2R sounds kind of different everytime because it feels more authentic and “upredictable”

 

[MrHaelscheir]

You can not have both.

Delta vs R2R. 3D/Holographic experience … also organic/blacker background, is more noticeable on R2R.

You can translate it to whatever term it is called.

Having a soundstage right in front of you that goes like a hall deep in front, and a tiny bit of “crossfeed” experience. It feels like being in the music. I am not using crossfeed, it just feels like it naturally. Nothing to do with pads and placement of the headphone…

The details between Delta vs R2R are “shifted” the same details are there but not pronounced/emphasized in the same way. Delta have some very correct/fast responding high frequencies, which sometimes can feel like a “clock-tick-tock” wheras R2R sounds kind of different everytime because it feels more authentic and “upredictable”

I can at least tell you that I do have an interest in saving up for a Holo Audio May and Bliss KTE stack to either bust a myth for myself or experience a revelation. If I find myself hearing the exact same things in the exact same way compared to ESS -> THX with my volume-matched sighted listening, so be it, I am not susceptible to the "magic", but I would still be able to enjoy it as one would a COSC-rated Swiss watch.

Now, do you hear the far-panned sounds as coming right from the drivers, or are they somehow projected forward or further to the sides? Early one before I started using crossfeed, I did have one experience hearing https://app.idagio.com/recordings/42181410 through the FiiO K9 Pro ESS and Arya Stealth where I swear I felt like I was on the stage.