[Antony6555]

Do you find that electrostats or dynamics reproduce stringed instruments more realistically? I'm just wondering because it seems like the two approach the instruments used in classical very differently. I'd have to say dynamics sound more realistic to me, but I don't have a lot of experience with hearing classical music performed live. What do you guys think?

 

[gilency]

To me, electrostatics is the way to go and you may or may not like them but here is a wide range of variations amongst them. Listen before you buy.
I have listened to the HD800's for prolonged periods of time and they are nice but I prefer electrostatics.
Stax O2 or 007Mk2 sound wonderful but it takes money to get a good amp to drive them.
I loved the 404's when I had them and currently the Sigma Pro keeps me listening (90+% Classical) for hours on end without fatigue. Mainly Bach, Beethoven, Vivaldi and Mozart. String quartets and chamber music sound beautiful with Stats. Bach cello sonatas/partitas sound just perfect to me.
The Lambda's (of which the 404 is part of) are known for an edge in the treble region that some people don't like. I did not mind it.

 

[indydieselnut]

I'm sure you'll get many opinions about this and I suggest you take them all with a grain of salt

I owned a Stax SRM-T1W/LNS combo for many years and felt that it was hard to beat that combo for accurately reproducing string textures...especially violins. However, I sold that combo and have been making my way through the dynamic ranks. As a cellist, I can tell you I've found a few dynamic combos that really allow me to enjoy listening to recorded cello music. I don't pretend that it is as "accurate" as the stat system but it feels easier to become immersed in the music as I would at a live performance. A couple of the combinations that worked for me are Woo WA6SE maxxed with Grado GS1000i headphones (Cambridge audio sources) and the ALO Amphora SE with Denon D7000 headphones (same sources).

I feel you can get great results with either technology and it falls to personal preference. A long time ago I decided that I listened to music for my own personal enjoyment and didn't feel driven to seek accuracy at all costs. If the system produces sound that closely replicates the live event (a little different than "accuracy" in my mind) it has succeeded.

Above all, enjoy the music. Cheers!

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sure you'll get many opinions about this and I suggest you take them all with a grain of salt I owned a Stax SRM-T1W/LNS combo for many years and felt that it was hard to beat that combo for accurately reproducing string textures...especially violins. However, I sold that combo and have been making my way through the dynamic ranks. As a cellist, I can tell you I've found a few dynamic combos that really allow me to enjoy listening to recorded cello music. I don't pretend that it is as "accurate" as the stat system but it feels easier to become immersed in the music as I would at a live performance. A couple of the combinations that worked for me are Woo WA6SE maxxed with Grado GS1000i headphones (Cambridge audio sources) and the ALO Amphora SE with Denon D7000 headphones (same sources). I feel you can get great results with either technology and it falls to personal preference. A long time ago I decided that I listened to music for my own personal enjoyment and didn't feel driven to seek accuracy at all costs. If the system produces sound that closely replicates the live event (a little different than "accuracy" in my mind) it has succeeded. Above all, enjoy the music. Cheers!

I completely disagree, prefer 'stats for the most part (with K1000 being an exception) and prefer accuracy, which is in my mind what replicates the sound of the live event.

 

[BushGuy]

OMG - you seem to forget the hybrid alternative - modded K340.......which does not lack the dynamic impact of stats and also avoids the hash endemic to purely dynamic phones. They're still the tops in definition of individual instruments an a symphonic orchestra.

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I completely disagree, prefer 'stats for the most part (with K1000 being an exception) and prefer accuracy, which is in my mind what replicates the sound of the live event.

I'm not at all surprised that others don't agree with my viewpoint which is why I suggested that the OP take all the opinions with a grain of salt

I know I'm not the only musician here at head-fi that has been involved in classical music performance for decades, but my experience is that accuracy to the recording is slightly different than recreating the live event.

Example - I've been to dozens of concerts involving Yo-Yo Ma soloing with an orchestra, I've played in a masterclass for him, I've played his Montagnana cello on two different occasions, and have listened to him play his Montagnana cello while sitting five feet from him. I own a large portion of his discography (but not many of the endless string of compilations now being released) and have listened to all the discs many times on many different systems (both speaker-based and headphone-based). None of this makes me particularly special (he's one of the most accessible concert artists of our time) but it does make me marginally familiar with his sound both live and on record. My Stax setup was very accurate and revealing of the recording...all the way down to splices and edits. It also did a wonderful job of conveying the "friction" of string playing - rosin on horsehair being pulled against strings (nickel-wound gut core to tungsten-wound spiral-steel core). However, Yo-Yo's playing is BEAUTIFUL...it doesn't matter if he grabs a master-class student's cello or if he's playing his priceless instruments. That BEAUTY was sometimes missing through the Stax setup, even though I'm sure it was doing a great job recreating the recording. For better or worse, for accuracy or coloration, for warm or for clinical...sometimes the dynamic setups I listed brought me back to the BEAUTY that I knew was there.

I know this might be a hot-button for some people but I'm just reporting my personal experience. I had a speaker system in the late 90's consisting of Alon Petite speakers, a Creek 4240SE integrated, and Audio Alchemy front end (DDS pro, pro processor, etc) that produced some of the most "cello-like" sound from cello recordings I've ever heard. It was certainly a far cry from the most accurate system available but it did *something* right...couldn't quite put my finger on it.

I'm also no expert - my investment in music far exceeds my investment in audio. There are many people here on head-fi with far more knowledge of differents systems and synergies.

Enjoy!

 

[mypasswordis]

I actually find 'stats to have that bit of magical sound to them that makes music beautiful and real sounding, while dynamics can be a bit boring and sterile. I also find that 'stats, while being extremely revealing (as you said), present detail in a kinder way than dynamics, which can easily make badly recorded material sound harsh. I'm more of a listener (and player) than a gearhead as well. Interesting how our viewpoints can differ by so much. I guess it really may just all depend on the individual listener, who has to take advice from others with a grain of salt.

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I actually find 'stats to have that bit of magical sound to them that makes music beautiful and real sounding, while dynamics can be a bit boring and sterile. I also find that 'stats, while being extremely revealing (as you said), present detail in a kinder way than dynamics, which can easily make badly recorded material sound harsh. I'm more of a listener (and player) than a gearhead as well. Interesting how our viewpoints can differ by so much. I guess it really may just all depend on the individual listener, who has to take advice from others with a grain of salt.

Very well said! I completely respect your opinion while having a different one myself. That said, I'd love to have the funds and time to play with a top-tier Stax setup like the O2/Woo WES or O2/Headamp Blue Hawaii because I've never experienced a system like that. I was even toying with buying the new Stax 404SE headphones with a Woo Audio GES.

Mypasswordis - I'm sure you've also experienced a situation in which two musicians play a certain instrument (a particular Taylor guitar, or a specific vintage Steinway piano) where one finds it average and one feels it is the "perfect" isntrument for them. I think we tend to underestimate that pull with audio gear. I spent many years as a teenager listening to a big honkin' pair of closed, Sony headphones through my Sony discman. The first time I ever put a pair of Denon AH-D7000 headphones on and listened to them, I felt like I was "coming home". I don't think anyone would call the Denons more "accurate" than, lets say, HD800 or Stax O2. But for me, they reconnected me with that sense of musical discovery that got me interested in performing an listening in the first place.

I've seriously strayed from the OP's question, but am having fun analyzing my own response.

 

[k3oxkjo]

My take would be to listen to as many phones as you can without regard for design principle and judge for yourself. In my past I owned Stax Lambda's, SRX-M2 (I believe) and still own a pair of ELS-8X speakers. I felt at the time that only 'stats were good enough. But the first time I heard the Sony R-10, I realized that times had changed.

Today, many dynamics do quite an excellent job of reproducing the sound of strings. Actually, there were dynamics that were good back when but I was just not aware of them...

Kevin

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very well said! I completely respect your opinion while having a different one myself. That said, I'd love to have the funds and time to play with a top-tier Stax setup like the O2/Woo WES or O2/Headamp Blue Hawaii because I've never experienced a system like that. I was even toying with buying the new Stax 404SE headphones with a Woo Audio GES. Mypasswordis - I'm sure you've also experienced a situation in which two musicians play a certain instrument (a particular Taylor guitar, or a specific vintage Steinway piano) where one finds it average and one feels it is the "perfect" isntrument for them. I think we tend to underestimate that pull with audio gear. I spent many years as a teenager listening to a big honkin' pair of closed, Sony headphones through my Sony discman. The first time I ever put a pair of Denon AH-D7000 headphones on and listened to them, I felt like I was "coming home". I don't think anyone would call the Denons more "accurate" than, lets say, HD800 or Stax O2. But for me, they reconnected me with that sense of musical discovery that got me interested in performing an listening in the first place. I've seriously strayed from the OP's question, but am having fun analyzing my own response.

I'm having fun conversing with you, and further derailing the thread.

Yes, I do understand going back to a familiar sound quite well. My first "high-end" headphone was a K501 and after several years and countless headphones (edit: including a huge exploration of 'stats and orthos), I feel like I have returned home with the K1000, since it seems to me to retain all the qualities of the K501 while taking everything up a couple of notches. I have less of that feeling with instruments, though, as every new violin/bow I have acquired has been noticeably better than the previous, otherwise the purchase would not have been made.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you find that electrostats or dynamics reproduce stringed instruments more realistically? I'm just wondering because it seems like the two approach the instruments used in classical very differently. I'd have to say dynamics sound more realistic to me, but I don't have a lot of experience with hearing classical music performed live. What do you guys think?

This will lead no where.. If your a dynamic fan, people will claim they are more realistic for instruments.. If you favor Stat fan, people will claim they are more realistic for instruments.. It's all based on perception, unless we can find hard data on what a instrument should sound like..

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not at all surprised that others don't agree with my viewpoint which is why I suggested that the OP take all the opinions with a grain of salt I know I'm not the only musician here at head-fi that has been involved in classical music performance for decades, but my experience is that accuracy to the recording is slighly different than recreating the live event. Example - I've been to dozens of concerts involving Yo-Yo Ma soloing with an orchestra, I've played in a masterclass for him, I've played his Montagnana cello on two different occasions, and have listened to him play his Montagnana cello while sitting five feet from him. I own a large portion of his discography (but not many of the endless string of compilations now being released) and have listened to all the discs many times on many different systems (both speaker-based and headphone-based). None of this makes me particularly special (he's one of the most accessible concert artists of our time) but it does make me marginally familiar with his sound both live and on record. My Stax setup was very accurate and revealing of the recording...all the way down to splices and edits. It also did a wonderful job of conveying the "friction" of string playing - rosin on horsehair being pulled against strings (nickel-wound gut core to tungsten-wound spiral-steel core). However, Yo-Yo's playing is BEAUTIFUL...it doesn't matter if he grabs a master-class student's cello or if he's playing his priceless instruments. That BEAUTY was sometimes missing through the Stax setup, even though I'm sure it was doing a great job recreating the recording. For better or worse, for accuracy or coloration, for warm or for clinical...sometimes the dynamic setups I listed brought me back to the BEAUTY that I knew was there. I know this might be a hot-button for some people but I'm just reporting my personal experience. I had a speaker system in the late 90's consisting of Alon Petite speakers, a Creek 4240SE integrated, and Audio Alchemy front end (DDS pro, pro processor, etc) that produced some of the most "cello-like" sound from cello recordings I've ever heard. It was certainly a far cry from the most accurate system available but it did *something* right...couldn't quite put my finger on it. I'm also no expert - my investment in music far exceeds my investment in audio. There are many people here on head-fi with far more knowledge of differents systems and synergies. Enjoy!

Bingo.

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif This will lead no where..

Sums up my experience with quite a few threads on head-fi! Hey, as long as we're all having fun and no one is getting hurt...

 

[GuyDebord]

As this wont lead anywhere, I shall post my preference:

ELECTROSTATIC!

with the exception of the k1000....

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyDebord /img/forum/go_quote.gif As this wont lead anywhere, I shall post my preference: ELECTROSTATIC! with the exception of the k1000....

^ What he said.

But maybe it can turn out to be a numbers sort of thing, if there are an excessive number of "votes" cast either way.