[Redcarmoose]

No special records you don't play it at all. It's not even opened. It's collectors items to be sold in 30 years time.

That’s what is entertaining about vinyl; the rarity at times. The fact that while new editions can always be printed, there are funny legal loopholes which make some albums in the end........super valuable. Other things can happen too, like the giant master tape fire that happened in California years ago wiping out a good chunk of the worlds master-tapes. Just the fact that the records those masters were made from will never be able to me made again in that quality. Or of course the limited runs of old records where the masters were simply gone, or recorded over. There have been a couple records too which were remastered then pressed only to have legal issues stop the pressing making the items a guaranteed once in a lifetime thing to see, if you calculate the law of averages.

Spoiler: links

A 2019 New York Times Magazine exposé asserted that the fire also destroyed 118,000 to 175,000 audio master tapes belonging to Universal Music Group (UMG). This included original recordings belonging to some of the best-selling artists worldwide. UMG initially disputed the story, but CEO Lucian Grainge later confirmed that there had been a significant loss of musical archives.[7]
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html

Eventually what happens is the audiophile can key into to the value of first pressing sound or rare record playback and start to quantify these things as repetitive life experiences.

Simply Head-Fi is humans chasing listening experiences that are based part on psychological ideas, but part on actual playback realities. Those concepts need a source to start to go into action. Without the character of the source all is lost.

Eventually when an owner of these basically unknown LPs decides to play it, it’s a 30 or 45 minute work up to the point when the needle drops. Though when listening you pretty much know that this is a once in a lifetime experience.

Once doing your research (which by the way is also questionable and difficult to verify) the simple existence of these records starts to take on a legendary status.

All this elitist style of one-off-man-ship takes place............it’s got a giant syringe of placebo just going in. But with it can be a listening session that a person remembers for their entire lifetime.

 

[The Jester]

The great thing with vinyl is the sound doesn’t change over the years and you don’t need a hugely expensive system to appreciate the basic tune, of course as the replay quality increases you get further into the music but the human ear and brain is way better than any measuring equipment and the memory is just as good ... sometimes why you get the hairs on the arms and the back of the neck standing up ... pure nostalgia ..sounds exactly the way you remember the first time you heard it, digital rarely does that as the mechanism for master recording to listening is changed by different DAC implementation and architecture trying for the last 30 odd years to match the fidelity of the humble LP ...

 

[matthewhypolite]

The great thing with vinyl is the sound doesn’t change over the years and you don’t need a hugely expensive system to appreciate the basic tune, of course as the replay quality increases you get further into the music but the human ear and brain is way better than any measuring equipment and the memory is just as good ... sometimes why you get the hairs on the arms and the back of the neck standing up ... pure nostalgia ..sounds exactly the way you remember the first time you heard it, digital rarely does that as the mechanism for master recording to listening is changed by different DAC implementation and architecture trying for the last 30 odd years to match the fidelity of the humble LP ...

that's actually one thing that surprised me the most, the fact that the record could sound so good from a humble $100 turntable. to think you can get this level of music from very cheap source is amazing. of course there'll be some cost made up in the purchase of the records themselves, some of them can get pretty expensive, but alot of new production stuff are the same price as digital. all in all, you really don't have to spend a ton to get a great experience.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I think the most difficult thing for new vinyl listeners to get their head around are the 3 issues of noise.

The surface noise
The pops and crackles
The ground hum

If someone is coming from digital it’s quite the mental thing to spend days or weeks learning to mentally block out the pops. The ground hum will always be present no matter what. The surface noise will be improved with a better turntable and tracking ability. Finally the better turntable too decreases the pops and crackles by getting the needle down into the groove and picking up less top noise from the record.

For many though I think it’s a surprise. For the people who had vinyl before CD it was just a fact of life. But it’s maybe the biggest reason you’ll find folks jump in and jump out. Also many wonder really how much the noise will be reduced with a better turntable and fear the difference will still be not acceptable even with the greater investment.

The fact that many have two or three turntables as your not going to want to play trashy records with an expensive cartridge. The fact that many times records are in way worse shape than they look. Or that new vinyl quality can be spotty and of a huge QC range depending on who prints it. I remember going to 3 Best Buy’s one night looking for the one print of a box set that was actually perfect. Lucky they let me open and return all of them. I finally stayed with my imperfect pressing as I at least wanted a copy and it played great, just looked bad.

 

[matthewhypolite]

Yea i had the same concerns in going up to a more expensive player, but many weeks of research later i was convinced of the improvements of going up, and i did indeed get those improvements. Namely:

• Surface noise reduction.
• Pops and crackles are pretty much gone.

Ground hum is still a thing though, and i've been trying to find a way to get rid of it entirely. It's not picked up in my mid drivers or tweeters, but through the woofer, its very much there. Going to try some things today actually to see if i can improve that.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yea i had the same concerns in going up to a more expensive player, but many weeks of research later i was convinced of the improvements of going up, and i did indeed get those improvements. Namely:

• Surface noise reduction.
• Pops and crackles are pretty much gone.

Ground hum is still a thing though, and i've been trying to find a way to get rid of it entirely. It's not picked up in my mid drivers or tweeters, but through the woofer, its very much there. Going to try some things today actually to see if i can improve that.

It’s never totally gone no matter what but can be reduced dramatically. The 100K systems still have ground him. For me I never had a nice turntable for years. Finally it WAS surprising getting a good turntable which got the needle down into the bottom of the groove reducing the surface noise and crackle. Obviously the individual record plays a big part. But that’s the romance, finding an old rare record that looks bad but plays perfect. That’s the chase and the riddle that makes the rewards so golden in the end.

I’ve never heard the surface removed but taken down to a nice level. The great thing is the sound benefits totally out-weigh the little stuff in the end. The trick is to embrace the whole experience for whatever it truly is.....like marriage.

I think many don’t realize that starting around 2003 or so new turntables started to surpass the quality of almost all the turntables made for audiophiles in the 1970s. So it’s a fact today that there are routinely much better turntables than you could ever find in the 1970s-1990s. The art has been not only carried on but dramatically improved on every level.

 

[UntilThen]

I think the most difficult thing for new vinyl listeners to get their head around are the 3 issues of noise.

The surface noise
The pops and crackles
The ground hum

Mine don't have much of those 3 issues because my LPs are very new and of reasonable quality pressings. The surprising thing is that after a while, you learn to live and like the very minute pops and crackles. It's like sitting by the fireside and leaning back in your favourite armchair with a drink in hand and watching the fire... and hearing the occasional pops and crackles.

 

[matthewhypolite]

Just updated the writeup with a little gif:

 

[UntilThen]

Beautiful ! Love your RP10 and WA33 and those headphones !

 

[Redcarmoose]

Mine don't have much of those 3 issues because my LPs are very new and of reasonable quality pressings. The surprising thing is that after a while, you learn to live and like the very minute pops and crackles. It's like sitting by the fireside and leaning back in your favourite armchair with a drink in hand and watching the fire... and hearing the occasional pops and crackles.

Yes, after mentally leaning to ignore that aspect the small things may then go to add to the feelings at hand. A romantic and slightly noted character. It’s the critical (ism) of being an audiophile, that gets it noted.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I always wonder how different vinyl collecting was pre-internet? I mean, there was no way to hear music except a friends or parents record collections, tapes and the radio. So the bewildering world of older music was these records. There was CDs but......they were pricey if you were young.


It’s hard today to try and substantiate just how much of a phenomenon to hear the old music as new was.

Meaning an older copy of a record that maybe had slight issues in playback just became the experience. My copy of the above was an original and not the best, yet it became a world unto itself. A place I could never have visited unless owning the single record. Just adding the warm sound made the whole experience that much more fantastic. The excavation of a past musical history was a riddle and was just part of learning music. The finds just fueled the fire of guessing to what may possibly be still left not yet discovered.

So it was not just vinyl sound but the enigma of these experiences which were profoundly rare and unique. The vinyl tone could not be separated from the listen as there was no other choice, it came as an inseparable package.

To the audiophile today, hearing these works in their original intended tone is an experience into that world which is still the only way to get close to the objectives originally sought. IMO

The bass tone (as one of many aspects) of this record can’t be experienced any other way but vinyl, no matter how much digital cash is spent. Strangely digital only (at best) ends up an approximation..........never the whole enchilada?

 

[The Jester]

There’s some discussions around regarding older stereo recordings on Vinyl vs new, depending on the original source there could be various versions of vinyl masters, the RIAA curve introduced in 1958, the original pre Dolby, closer to the original with a little tape hiss, then Dolby A around 1965 for studio applications, then a new RIAA curve with a dip in subsonic frequencies added in 1976 but not universally adopted, and finally modern recordings with the RIAA curve sometimes applied digitally,
with pre RIAA mono recordings there were numerous EQ curves used by the various recording companies which can sound odd replayed via the standard RIAA curve,
maybe why some treasure those original records from the early years .. 1958 - 1965 ...
and maybe to a lesser extent the 1965 to 1976 era ...

 

[matthewhypolite]

finding a good quality pressing is a real treat, and the difference in sound quality between a real good pressing and a lesser quality one is quite substantial. all part of the vinyl experience.

when I spin up a really top tier sounding record it really does feel like I cracked a rare bottle of expensive fine wine, savoring every sip.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The interesting part IS the single interest of attention span. Meaning we are blasted by information all day long. First the printing press was invented, then pictures added to books starting about the 1970s. Now pictures are added to TV shows. Those shows are now showing multiple diversions of thought processes. You can concentrate on the show, or the LCD billboard in the show with an advertisement which was paid to be there. Then another advertisement scrolls across the screen at the bottom. It's a style of advertising placement which is getting the most bang for the buck out of the media. If this continues you can only imagine LCD ordering lists in restaurants with additional advertisements running under the choice options. We are in the Blade Runner timeline in fact.

This style of modern media is the opposite of the slow and steady vinyl experience. The vinyl experience takes on an almost meditative state. Reason being that art museums are often quiet. Libraries are quiet and LPs offer a simple yet focused singular experience which ends as a relaxing vacation to a world full of information overload. Really..........I mean studying the LP jackets is totally at the 1940s media level, and that's what is so cool. A person with OCD/ADD can't possibly change records fast enough so.......the process of vinyl replay actually reinforces focus. IMO

 

[The Jester]

Almost too many choices now,
Listen or stream in the car,
Stream at home though a better quality source,
Buy and keep/collect the CD version
Buy and keep/ collect the Vinyl version
then compare the audio art to visual art..
look at a magazine photo of a painting
watch a video of someone touring an art gallery
buy a photorealistic copy
buy and collect the original ..
in both cases there’s more effort in keeping and maintaining the last option ...